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Prospect Info: #5 OA - Barrett Hayton - Center - Back to the OHL

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rt said:
Exactly what I’ve been saying since I first started reading the Frost excuse on draft day. A top five pick in his draft year should be able to supplant a late 1st from a year ago. If he’s not good enough to rise above some of these Soo forwards, even if he’s a bit younger, would indicate to me that he’s not good enough for the top five or top ten for that matter.
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The flipside, though, is you drafted him to be Bergeron not Backstrom. So if they were on the same team and Bergeron is only your 2C, does that reflect him? Or just reflect the depth at the position. Soo just graduated four older guys who were in their top five for scoring. Those older guys were established. Hayton shone when they were gone to worlds and his ice time and scoring progressed as the season went along. Just what you want to see.
This year is the biggest marker for him. We'll see how it shakes out. Comments from the national team coach basically had Frost and Hayton in the same group asking them to create some separation. If Hayton can't expand on his role this year, we'll know early. Which is exciting, if frightening.
 
rt said:
Exactly what I’ve been saying since I first started reading the Frost excuse on draft day. A top five pick in his draft year should be able to supplant a late 1st from a year ago. If he’s not good enough to rise above some of these Soo forwards, even if he’s a bit younger, would indicate to me that he’s not good enough for the top five or top ten for that matter.
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He was put in a defensive role because Frost was less consistent defensively
 
rt said:
Which one is the better nhl prospect and how close is it?
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Hayton.

Frost was the lightning rod and I wouldn't take anything away from his season, but he's the kind of guy who if he gets one wrist injury I see him disappearing from the league. It's all about speed for him and his shot strength is kind of weak for a top OHL talent. He's not much for defence but people confuse penalty kill for defensive play so the Flyers will someday play him on the PK because of his speed and people will assume that means he's got defensive chops. He doesn't.

Hayton earned a spot in the top six on a dominant OHL team whose top six was supposed to be comprised of mostly 19 years olds. He forced his way into a spot there. A big reason is because at 17 he was a better defensive forward than pretty much everyone on the Soo and was close to being the best defensive player in the league. He's the kind of guy Boston you'd think would draft to one day replace Bergeron (not saying he's Bergeron), and that's the kind of guy who you don't kick at because he's having a rough 18 year old exhibition season or he might not get the juiciest of PP minutes due to Frost. Fans in the Soo knew early on that when Hayton returned he would be used as their top forward for defensive situations, and still be expected to score. Bannister loved Hayton, and while he's gone, I don't see John Dean not favouring him.

Frost could get better, make the NHL, and be a big part of the Flyers, but I also don't see him making the Flyers as a centre. Hayton if handled properly, stays healthy, is given patience, will make the NHL and be a dependable two way centre you always play with a minute to go to protect a lead.
 
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My take on the 18 year old in his second game with the big dogs.

He killed 6:40 of penalties (almost 1/2 of his ice time), including the 5 on 3 (where he stripped Toffoli) Without a goal against.

He won 50% of faceoffs. 60% over 2 games.

He moved the puck well.

He’s pretty tough -took a pretty good cross check to the neck or face and didn’t miss a shift.

Outside of needing to add a bit of offence, I think he had a really strong night. Mature game.
 
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I am not saying Hayton isn't a good prospect, but I would stop mentioning the name of Bergeron when speaking of Hayton because in most likelihood you are bound to be disappointed. To me this is like comparing gritty offensive prospects to Gallagher (I have seen this comparison many times, never materialized), it is very doubtful that one will match his feistiness or an offensive defenseman prospect with Karlsson puck moving ability, the same goes when comparing a forward prospect defensive game with the one of Bergeron, erroneous in most likelihood, even more so under the perspective that defensive abilities are the ones which takes the longer to develop which increase the probability of erroneous projections. Also, I am under the impression that the Bergeron comparison might be fueled by the necessity to justify Hayton being picked 5th overall factoring is offensive upside, furthermore from what I have seen of him, he looks good defensively, but I am wondering if it isn't inflated by the fact that compared to similar prospects on other teams he was forced further into defensive role because Soo Saint Marie happened to be so stacked offensively. All in all, I would be careful when comparing a 18 years old prospect two-way game with a 4 times Selke winner.
(I am not targeting any poster, just a thought I had about this comparison which I heard many times after seeing his name popping again)
 
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ProspectsFanatic said:
I not saying Hayton isn't a good prospect, but I would stop mentioning the name of Bergeron when speaking of Hayton because in most likelihood you are bound to be disappointed
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Well I don't think too many people (around here) take those seriously. HF was kinda not working on draft day, but in the chatroom we had it was a lot of skepticism about that specifically because every two-way ish center seems to get that name tossed around him.


I see his upside and game of more like peak Vermette with better hands. Before anyone goes crazy on me, Vermette scored 65 points at one time so he wasn't always the more middle 6 guy we had here.
 
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SniperHF said:
Well I don't think too many people (around here) take those seriously. HF was kinda not working on draft day, but in the chatroom we had it was a lot of skepticism about that specifically because every two-way ish center seems to get that name tossed around him.


I see his upside and game of more like peak Vermette with better hands. Before anyone goes crazy on me, Vermette scored 65 points at one time so he wasn't always the more middle 6 guy we had here.
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Nope. I think that's a perfect example of who he will end up being.
 
I think we all agree Hayton is a very good prospect; it’s a question of whether or not he is offensively dynamic enough to justify passing on Zadina.
 
The name Bergeron is coming up because if they took him at five, that's the mould of player they expect him to be. You don't (deliberately) draft the next Vermette at 5ov.
You see guys like Bergeron get underdrafted by value, and they clearly think they are/were smart enough to identify the next one.
So if we're discussing aspects that depend on the frame of mind of the franchise, you have to look at him that way.

None of that means we, the fans, expect him to be Bergeron. I'm not even sure he'll be the next Vermette.
 
ProspectsFanatic said:
I am not saying Hayton isn't a good prospect, but I would stop mentioning the name of Bergeron when speaking of Hayton because in most likelihood you are bound to be disappointed.
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People get way too touchy about player comparisons. Nobody ever means they will end up a mirror image of the player compared. It means that if they reach their peaks, their strengths and reputation will resemble said player.

Brendan Gaunce had a high defensive IQ in junior and he looks like he's busting. Doesn't change the fact it was fair to compare him to a similar NHLer when he was a junior.
 
SniperHF said:
Well I don't think too many people (around here) take those seriously. HF was kinda not working on draft day, but in the chatroom we had it was a lot of skepticism about that specifically because every two-way ish center seems to get that name tossed around him.


I see his upside and game of more like peak Vermette with better hands. Before anyone goes crazy on me, Vermette scored 65 points at one time so he wasn't always the more middle 6 guy we had here.
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Vermette is a good comparison. I personally have been using Daymond Langkow as his comparison. And I'm not talking about 2011-2012 broken down and defeated Langkow.
 
hbk said:
I think we all agree Hayton is a very good prospect; it’s a question of whether or not he is offensively dynamic enough to justify passing on Zadina.
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Really wish Ottawa would've passed on Tkachuk.
 
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_Del_ said:
You don't (deliberately) draft the next Vermette at 5ov.
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Antoine Vermette has played over 1,000 games and averaged about .5 ppg in those 14 seasons. Not quite eye-popping and probably never a legitimate top line center, but very good. Very good is what you're hoping to get from a 5th overall pick.

Vermette was drafted in 2000. The 5th overall picks from 1996 to 2005 were:

1996: Ric Jackman
1997: Eric Brewer
1998: Vitali Vishnevski
1999: Tim Connolly
2000: Raffi Torres
2001: Stanislav Chistov
2002: Ryan Whitney
2003: Thomas Vanek
2004: Blake Wheeler
2005: Carey Price

I think it's safe to say Vermette turned out better than the median 5th overall pick during this stretch. The draft is a crapshoot. Everyone has the potential to be an all-star, but most guys fall well below that ceiling. You don't need another Bergeron to justify the Hayton pick. If you can get a reliable middle six center out of it, you're doing fine.
 
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Mosby said:
I'm thinking either 4th or 5th.

Dahlin, Svechnikov, Kotkaniemi, Tkachuk/Hayton

or

Dahlin, Svechnikov, Kotkaniemi, Hayton/Tkachuk
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Nope. Morgan (I believe) said they had him ahead of Tkachuk. The tweet was to the effect of “pick would have been the same if Tkachuk was availabl or something like that. Feel free to dig.

The draft day video made it seem as though they preferred him to Kotkaniemi (this is a feeling I have but we should rewatch to double-check).

Obviously they had him rated ahead of anyone not named Dahlin, Svechnikov, Kotkaniemi or Tkachuk.

I firmly believe they had him ranked third overall. At least Chayka did. Then he replaced our head scout. Hmmm...
 
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