Value of: 5 first round picks vs Bedard

[Double Dion]

Well I’d hope so considering michkov has a case of being better than bedard lol


The guy going after him is trending to be the next ovechkin

I love Michkov. Saying he's better than Bedard is more than a stretch. He might not even be better than Fantilli. He's smaller than Gaudreau. Comparing him to Ovechkin tells me you've never even watched him.

 

[Auston Marlander]

There is always a deal but unlikely this year ...
Would.be an extreme overpayment and cripple the other team for a decade ..

1rst overall
For
3 first in 23
First in 24
First in 25
2nd in 24
2nd in 25
3rd in 26
4th in 24
Grade A prospect x 2
Grade x 2
Valuable roster player x 2

That GM should be fired on the spot.


Scratch that, they should be publicly fired in TV.

 

[Lockin17]

here is a other

Fantilli + Leo Carlsson for Bedard.

 

[Half Clapper]

I love Michkov. Saying he's better than Bedard is more than a stretch. He might not even be better than Fantilli. He's smaller than Gaudreau. Comparing him to Ovechkin tells me you've never even watched him.

I never compared the two bud. I said he is the same level of prospect as Ovechkin. Also, you call him small, but yet Bedard isn't that much bigger lol.

 

[BlueBaron]

I chose Bedard because I'm a big believer in needing a high quality core.

That being said there is a decent argument for spreading out your risk.

 

[wasunder]

Bedard, on a similiar note during the 2013 nhl draft Calgary offered 6th 22nd and 28th for first overall. I’m not sure how seriously this was considered at the time by Colorado. But In hindsight it would have been Sean Monahan, Morgan klimchuk, and Emile Poirier for Nathan mackinonn… just to give an example of what the quantity vs quality of this package could turn out to be in these trades.

 

[waitin425]

If the Blues traded Parayko and Vrana in the offseason and wound up with 5 first round picks, would you rather have the picks or Bedard?

For more context I’m putting the picks at 9th, 18th, 21st, 26th, and 30th.

Would you do McDavid for....

9 - Timo Meier
18 - Thomas Chabot
21 - Colin White
26 - Noah Juulsen
30 - Nick Merkley

I wouldn't

 

[Colezuki]

Theres two different ways to look at this,

1. Business wise, having one star player like this helps create a new generation of fans beyond your traditional geographic borders. Example how many oilers mcdavid jerseys exist beyond just edmonton with kids in small towns and cities across Canada.

2. Hockey wise, taking the 5 picks is a gamble, yep it could absolutely end up being the better choice but the options OP listed we're the below and the corresponding players according to cosentino

9th, - Yager
18th, - Moore
21st, - wood
26th, - Dragevic
30th. - Bonk

Im sure many here would think that would be impressive, however let's compare to the matthews or McDavid drafts
2016 - Matthews

9th - Sergachev
18th - Logan Stanley
21st - Julien Gauthier
26th - tage Thompson
30th - Sam Steel

You'd probably take this due to thompson, but two before is Max Jones and Riley Tufte and two after is Brett Howden and Lucas Johansen

2015
9th - Meier
18th - Chabot
21st - White
26th - Juulsen
30th - Merkley

Your basically getting a high quality player for your D or your Top 6 and a high likelihood of a 2nd player and 3 depth players. I know this place loves first rounders but you take the generational player every time

 

[EXTRAS]

Maybe if it were like picks 7+9+10+11+12

but the problem is with any picks past around 17-18 the chances of getting a really good player falls immensely.

 

[Double Dion]

I never compared the two bud. I said he is the same level of prospect as Ovechkin. Also, you call him small, but yet Bedard isn't that much bigger lol.

No. You said "Michkov has a good case for being better than Bedard." You're technically correct that you didn't say he's the same level. You said he's got a case for being better. He's not remotely close to the same level of prospect as Ovechkin. Debrincat is closer. Ovechkin put up over 50 goals and 100 points as a rookie. He was also an absolute freight train when he was younger.

Bedard is 40 pounds heavier. That's not "close to the same size." That's the difference between Gaudreau and Trouba.

Bedard, on a similiar note during the 2013 nhl draft Calgary offered 6th 22nd and 28th for first overall. I’m not sure how seriously this was considered at the time by Colorado. But In hindsight it would have been Sean Monahan, Morgan klimchuk, and Emile Poirier for Nathan mackinonn… just to give an example of what the quantity vs quality of this package could turn out to be in these trades.

Calgary actually offered ALL of their picks to move on to #1. 8 in total, 3 in the first round.

 

[Half Clapper]

No. You said "Michkov has a good case for being better than Bedard." You're technically correct that you didn't say he's the same level. You said he's got a case for being better. He's not remotely close to the same level of prospect as Ovechkin. Debrincat is closer. Ovechkin put up over 50 goals and 100 points as a rookie. He was also an absolute freight train when he was younger.

Bedard is 40 pounds heavier. That's not "close to the same size." That's the difference between Gaudreau and Trouba.

Weight doesn't matter to me really for 17-18 year olds. The only thing I go by is height for measuring a players size when they're young. It is easy to put on 20-30 lbs from 17-20. Michkov easily could be a better player than Bedard, and it would not surpise me in the slightest.

Michkov put up better numbers in the KHL at 17 years old compared to Ovi. Ovechkin at 17 put up 23 pts in 53 gp. Michkov put up 20 in 27 gp. How do you explain that one when you say they aren't even close?

Also, if anything Michkov doing it at his small size against grown men makes it even more impressive.

 

[Double Dion]

Weight doesn't matter to me really for 17-18 year olds. The only thing I go by is height for measuring a players size when they're young. It is easy to put on 20-30 lbs from 17-20. Michkov easily could be a better player than Bedard, and it would not surpise me in the slightest.

Michkov put up better numbers in the KHL at 17 years old compared to Ovi. Ovechkin at 17 put up 23 pts in 53 gp. Michkov put up 20 in 27 gp. How do you explain that one when you say they aren't even close?

Also, if anything Michkov doing it at his small size against grown men makes it even more impressive.

You're talking about the greatest Russian player of all time and the greatest goal scorer of all time. Then you're comparing a guy who was vastly outscored by Tolvanen who was also bigger than him. It's silly.

I'll eat your sweaty underpants if Michkov is better than Bedard. Michkov is almost a year older than Bedard to top it off. No one has done what Bedard did since Mario. Crosby is the only player since who has come close and he had much better junior linemates. Regina is a Bedard away from being the worst team in the WHL.

 

[Half Clapper]

You're talking about the greatest Russian player of all time and the greatest goal scorer of all time. Then you're comparing a guy who was vastly outscored by Tolvanen who was also bigger than him. It's silly.

I'll eat your sweaty underpants if Michkov is better than Bedard. Michkov is almost a year older than Bedard to top it off. No one has done what Bedard did since Mario.

I am spitting facts at you while you're arguing with nothing but opinion. Michkov had a better 17 year old season in the KHL than Ovechkin did, and that is why the hype for him should be extremely high. Bedard will be a Patrick kane type player in the NHL. He won't be Mcdavid good.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

Anyone not taking Bedard doesn't know what they're doing. The end.

 

[Deplorable Lenny]

Bedard for Seider + Detroit #10

+++++++++++++++++

 

[Nakawick]

The picks by themselves would have to be top 5 or top 10 picks to really even start to be of equal value. That said, it is still not a guarantee that Bedard will be an “all time great” player, he will have his own challenges and it remains to be seen how well his game will translate to the NHL level.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

here is a other

Fantilli + Leo Carlsson for Bedard.

No. Not even close. Insulting even.

That's like saying:

Eichel + Strome for McDavid.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The picks by themselves would have to be top 5 or top 10 picks to really even start to be of equal value. That said, it is still not a guarantee that Bedard will be an “all time great” player, he will have his own challenges and it remains to be seen how well his game will translate to the NHL level.

This is true but as a GM, you don't trade this potential away thinking you will hit with other later 1st. There will be busts and disappointments in this 1st round and even in the top 10.

Imagine if someone traded J Hughes for Byram, Kakko, and Dach? 1 for 2, 3, 4. That should give posters an indication of how bad this trade talk idea is because even Byram, Kakko, and Dach were highly rated on draft day.

 

[Double Dion]

I am spitting facts at you while you're arguing with nothing but opinion. Michkov had a better 17 year old season in the KHL than Ovechkin did, and that is why the hype for him should be extremely high. Bedard will be a Patrick kane type player in the NHL. He won't be Mcdavid good.

This wasn't Michkov's 17 year old season. It was Bedard's 17 year old season. This was Michkov's 18 year old season. He had 5 points in 13 games as a 17 year old.

Bedard put up better numbers than McDavid, younger than McDavid, with worse linemates than McDavid. On the biggest stage (WJHC) Bedard vastly outplayed McDavid. He's a better defensive player than McDavid. Kane isn't even in the conversation. The last junior player you can even make a case for is Crosby and that's more about all-around game than production. The last player who produced better was Mario 40 years ago. You have no idea what you're talking about and talk in circles.

Just a few posts ago after saying he has a case for being better than Bedard, you said you weren't saying he's better than Bedard, and now you are saying he is. You are having a hard time even deciding what you think.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

Bedard for picks:

#2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32

Answer: No.

 

[T_Cage]

This would be more interesting if the five picks were 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th. That might get some votes the other way.

Oh I take those 5 picks all day. Some people are sleeping on the fact Michkov and Fantilli would be #1 picks in most non-Bedard years.

Even #1 for #2,3,and 4 I'd have to think about. Michkov, Fantilli and Carlsson is potentially a whole future top LINE for 1 guy. No matter how great he is 1 guy can bring a team to Cups like in the NBA (see: McDavid in Edmonton)

 

[Brodeur]

If the Blues traded Parayko and Vrana in the offseason and wound up with 5 first round picks, would you rather have the picks or Bedard?

For more context I’m putting the picks at 9th, 18th, 21st, 26th, and 30th.

It was mentioned earlier in the thread, but this sounded a lot like Pierre Lacroix chasing Vincent Lecavalier. Lacroix plotted a couple years in advance to stockpile picks for him. Headed into draft day, Colorado had picks #12, #17, #19, #20, #28, and #38. I don't think it was ever completely confirmed, but the rumor was that Colorado offered all/most of those picks and possibly a roster player to Tampa for #1.

Tampa had just gotten new ownership and they saw Lecavalier as a box office attraction. So they declined any overtures. Trading down for quantity makes more sense in the NFL where positions are specialized. The Bears traded down because they have a young QB. But pretty much every NHL lottery team will have a need for Bedard. I can't imagine too many NHL owners who would approve a trade to send a rare franchise type guy for picks who might be 2-3 years away.

A decent chunk of the teams likely to win the lottery already have additional 1sts/2nds from deadline deals. Having too many picks can be a small issue. You could get to the point where you run out of contract spots for the rest of your draft class. Hypothetically you could package them to move up or trade for other pieces, but that can be easier said than done. I remember Columbus in 2013 trying to move up but they got stonewalled. Ditto St. Louis in 2007.

 

[Half Clapper]

This wasn't Michkov's 17 year old season. It was Bedard's 17 year old season. This was Michkov's 18 year old season. He had 5 points in 13 games as a 17 year old.

Bedard put up better numbers than McDavid, younger than McDavid, with worse linemates than McDavid. On the biggest stage (WJHC) Bedard vastly outplayed McDavid. He's a better defensive player than McDavid. Kane isn't even in the conversation. The last junior player you can even make a case for is Crosby and that's more about all-around game than production. The last player who produced better was Mario 40 years ago. You have no idea what you're talking about and talk in circles.

Just a few posts ago after saying he has a case for being better than Bedard, you said you weren't saying he's better than Bedard, and now you are saying he is. You are having a hard time even deciding what you think.

You better go re-read my posts buddy or maybe put on the glasses. I never once said Michkov is better than Bedard.
Ok well in that case Ovechkin put up 27 pts in 37 gp while Michkov put up 20 in 27, so Michkov still outproduced Ovechkin did at the same age haha.
I can almost bet I have watched Bedard play more than you have, and I'll tell you that he is a pat kane clone. He also isn't better defensively than Mcdavid lol. He can be very lazy in his own zone. Mcdavid was a better prospect than Bedard and I don't see Bedard ever being the same level of player as Mcdavid. As we all know Mcdavid is in a teir of his own. Bedard will never be able to skate like Mcdavid.

Bedard is obviously an unreal talent and I see his career at the same level of Pat Kane, but Bedard will score more, which is still great.

 

[Double Dion]

You better go re-read my posts buddy or maybe put on the glasses. I never once said Michkov is better than Bedard.
Ok well in that case Ovechkin put up 27 pts in 37 gp while Michkov put up 20 in 27, so Michkov still outproduced Ovechkin did at the same age haha.
I can almost bet I have watched Bedard play more than you have, and I'll tell you that he is a pat kane clone. He also isn't better defensively than Mcdavid lol. He can be very lazy in his own zone. Mcdavid was a better prospect than Bedard and I don't see Bedard ever being the same level of player as Mcdavid. As we all know Mcdavid is in a teir of his own. Bedard will never be able to skate like Mcdavid.

Bedard is an unreal talent and I see his career at the same level of Pat Kane, which is still great.

1. You might want to run that math again. Ovechkin had more GPG, PPG and overall numbers.

2. Yes you did say "Michkov has a good case for being better than Bedard." It's a direct quote. Of course you also think 40 pounds difference is the "same size."

3. You haven't watched Bedard play more than I have. Especially if you think he's a Kane clone.

4. The only correct thing you've said in this post is Bedard doesn't skate like McDavid. No one has since (who could also control the puck) pre-achilles Selanne and pre-knee Bure.

5. McDavid put up half the points in the WJCH that Bedard did a year older.

 

[Half Clapper]

1. You might want to run that math again.

2. Yes you did say "Michkov has a good case for being better than Bedard." It's a direct quote. Of course you also think 40 pounds difference is the "same size."

3. You haven't watched Bedard play more than I have. Especially if you think he's a Kane clone.

4. The only correct thing you've said in this post is Bedard doesn't skate like McDavid. No one has since (who could also control the puck) pre-achilles Selanne and pre-knee Bure.

5. McDavid put up half the points in the WJCH that Bedard did a year older.

1. 27/37 = 0.73, 20/27 = 0.74 How is that for math pal?
2. I said that weight doesn't matter for 17 year old kids. You don't think teenagers don't grow? LOL
3. Do you have season tickets to Regina Pats games? He plays a lot like Kane, and I don't really care what you think or say about it.
4. Everything I said is correct, because opinions are like ass holes, everybody has one, and most of the time they stink.
5. So Mcdavid put up less pts in 6 or so WJHC games, so that makes him an inferier prospect? hahaha