4th Overall the Senators Take Brady Tkachuk

[topshelf15]

Yes actually. He didn't rack up 20 goals in international tournaments by being afraid to get his nose dirty. lol

Seriously, go watch tape of Zadina play.

Again,do honestly think he is a hard forward by comparision??This is why we drafted BT ,we need a possession forward with size and a nasty streak.....Every team that wins has this

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Oh so he is a hard one, that will be willing to grind it out to make something happen??Or take a punch in the face to establish position in front of the net???

I've seen nothing in Zadina's game that would indicate otherwise.

I think Tkachuk being this big physical prime Bertuzzi type is a myth that's being passed around. He's definitely physical but it's not like he's Chris Neil out there. He's gonna use that body to protect the puck but people gotta stop acting like he's Cam Neely. I don't think he's gonna be running guys out of the building with any regularity.

 

[Solarion]

Again,do honestly think he is a hard forward by comparision??This is why we drafted BT ,we need a possession forward with size and a nasty streak.....Every team that wins has this

Again. YES I DO. Is that in any way ambiguous?

Please go watch tape of Filip Zadina...you don't seem to know what you're talking about.

You can continue to try to make this conversation about BT if you like, but the conversation(to me
) is about the opportunity cost of choosing BT #4 overall. Is Brady a good player? Yep. Was he the BPA at #4? ...absolutely. not.

 

[topshelf15]

I've seen nothing in Zadina's game that would indicate otherwise.

I think Tkachuk being this big physical prime Bertuzzi type is a myth that's being passed around. He's definitely physical but it's not like he's Chris Neil out there. He's gonna use that body to protect the puck but people gotta stop acting like he's Cam Neely. I don't think he's gonna be running guys out of the building with any regularity.

Tkachuk,s game is predicated on being below the circles and using his size,along the boards and in and around the net...In the open he does have skill,and vision as well as a decent shot ,also he is a good skater...So again what is there really not to like here ????I get you like Zadina,and yes he had some nice numbers...But Tkachuk is going to be a very good top 6 player for us ..

 

[topshelf15]

Again. YES I DO. Is that in any way ambiguous?

Please go watch tape of Filip Zadina...you don't seem to know what you're talking about.

So you think Zadina plays as physical a game as Tkachuk does and will at the pro level????Sorry man not going to agree here period

 

[Solarion]

I think Zadina is a superior hockey player with a higher ceiling than BT <period>

I've said so repeatedly. You keep adding qualifiers, so that you can avoid admitting that Zadina is an elite shooter and Tkachuk is not, but that's the reality here. The intangible/character stuff is anybody's guess.

 

[swiftwin]

Brady is worth less IMO because he's not as good at ice hockey as Filip Zadina. It's really really not that complicated.

There's more to a hockey player than having a good shot, good puck handling, and being a fast skater. For example, compare Mike Hoffman to Mark Stone. Hoffman is far far better at those 3 things, yet Stone is agruably a better player and a better point producer.

 

[topshelf15]

I think Zadina is a superior hockey player. <period>

I've said so repeatedly. You keep adding qualifiers, so that you can avoid admitting that Zadina is an elite shooter and Tkachuk is not, but that's the reality here. The intangible/character stuff is anybody's guess.

So because he can shoot the puck ,it makes every other trait or skill negligable ...Ok then .....

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

I'm upset that we didn't draft the high ceiling pure skill sniper as Zadina was my clear choice at 3, but I will appreciate the moxie that Tkachuk will bring. I'm very excited to see how he develops, because he could add a missing dimension this team has needed.

There. Is that so hard to say and admit, everyone? No need to bash either player to pump your chosen prospect.

 

[Solarion]

So because he can shoot the puck ,it makes every other trait or skill negligable ...Ok then .....

sigh.

Moar hyperbole...swell. lol

I think we're done here. I don't suppose you've found the time to actually look into what you're saying?

...and for the umpteenth time, NOBODY is bashing Brady Tkachuk. LMAO. My own issue is with the GM of the Ottawa Senators...I've no problem with Brady Tkachuk. At. All.

 

[topshelf15]

sigh.

Moar hyperbole...swell. lol

I think we're done here.

Really why??You chose to state your opinion as being the only correct one ,I disagree, and thats fine

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

There's more to a hockey player than having a good shot, good puck handling, and being a fast skater. For example, compare Mike Hoffman to Mark Stone. Hoffman is far far better at those 3 things, yet Stone is agruably a better player and a better point producer.

What makes Stone a great player is his high end IQ/quick decision making on the ice. Same thing for Zadina. Tkachuk isn't really noted for that. He's a big guy that's hard to get the puck off of. Doesn't particularly make a ton of great plays while possessing the puck as is reflected in his numbers.

 

[Solarion]

Really why??You chose to state your opinion as being the only correct one ,I disagree, and thats fine

Here's why:

So because he can shoot the puck ,it makes every other trait or skill negligable ...Ok then .....

I never said anything of the sort. You created a hyperbolic straw man to rail against.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Brady is worth less IMO because he's not as good at ice hockey as Filip Zadina. It's really really not that complicated.

This oversimplification based on personal preference is becoming one of the more irritating cliches on thrs boards.

 

[Solarion]

This oversimplification based on personal preference is becoming one of the more irritating cliches on thrs boards.

Well that's all fine and good, but when drafting players one must determine player value. For me, and a whole lot of others, it's real hard to conclude that Tkachuk has a higher value than Zadina.

Since they're both left handed shots and slot into the same position, none of that is relevant to the discussion. What you're left with is skill/style vs skill/style and what some here label as "intangible/character" stuff.

I personally find this chart to be pretty consistent with how I view these prospects. Agree or disagree as you like, but if your argument is that Tkachuk is > than Zadina because "character" then yeah well...that's kind of weak unless you just happen to know both of these kids personally. I do not, though I've watched both play ice hockey.

...otherwise the inescapable conclusion is that Dorion left some value on the table by taking BT #4 overall instead of Zadina.

BTW the overwhelming consensus here was that Zadina > Tkachuk ...and not for intangibles/character issues, but due to skill. Now of course confirmation bias has kicked in and many will tow the team line. Weird how Brady's "character" assets didn't make up the skill deficit even a couple months ago, but now he's "the guy".

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/thre...-they-take-him.2499001/page-17#post-146795449

 

[swiftwin]

What makes Stone a great player is his high end IQ/quick decision making on the ice. Same thing for Zadina. Tkachuk isn't really noted for that. He's a big guy that's hard to get the puck off of. Doesn't particularly make a ton of great plays while possessing the puck as is reflected in his numbers.

A huge part of what makes Stone good is that he can win battles down low and uses his size effectively. Tkachuk is a faster, more skilled version of that. Nowadays, that's how goals are scored. Look at some of the best players in the league. McDavid is not noted for having a great shot. Crosby gets all his points from working hard down low and being impossible to get off the puck. Malkin is a physical beast. Even Ovi has had to adapt his game. Raw snipers are not as effective as they used to be. Now it's all about speed and net drive. It's why Dorion was so high on Duchene, and it's why he's high on Tkachuk.

Edit: To add to that, I find it a bit silly to use numbers in NCAA as some sort of proof of his abilities. We're always warned of players with really high point totals in other leagues who clearly do not have the type of skillset that translates well to the NHL. Tkachuk clearly has the type of skillset that will translate very well to the NHL.

 

[bert]

What I'm gathering from this post is that you've lost your tie to the thread topic, and you have a serious love for Hossa.

I am simply correcting your incorrect statement and ability to evaluate former sens hockey clubs and this one.

 

[bert]

Meh ,dont care but i wonder how much you overvalue junior numbers over other just as important skills

The thing is here I dont think anyone basing this solely on jr hockey numbers. I know for myself I watched every game that each of these two players played in the WJC and several other games they played this past season. I actually dont mind Tkachuk, if he is developed properly he is going to be a very good player. The thing is Zadina is incredibly skilled, he has that it factor, he has elite skill you simply cant teach and his game is incredibly similar to Kucherov.

Its not that I dont like Tkachuk I just like Zadina more.

 

[swiftwin]

The thing is here I dont think anyone basing this solely on jr hockey numbers. I know for myself I watched every game that each of these two players played in the WJC and several other games they played this past season. I actually dont mind Tkachuk, if he is developed properly he is going to be a very good player. The thing is Zadina is incredibly skilled, he has that it factor, he has elite skill you simply cant teach and his game is incredibly similar to Kucherov.

Its not that I dont like Tkachuk I just like Zadina more.

I would argue that Tkachuk also has an 'it' factor that you can't teach in terms of intensity and going to the dirty areas to get goals, while still having high end skill. Players like that don't grow on trees.

 

[Solarion]

Fair enough, but whose "it factor" resulted in more points for their respective teams?

 

[JungleBeat]

Most people on here claim he’s better than his brother. I wonder if he’ll be on the roster and make an impact.

 

[swiftwin]

Fair enough, but whose "it factor" resulted in more points for their respective teams?

Irrelevant. You're trying to compare the point totals of two different players in two different leagues in order to determine how many they'll get in a completely different league? ok.

 

[bert]

I would argue that Tkachuk also has an 'it' factor that you can't teach in terms of intensity and going to the dirty areas to get goals, while still having high end skill. Players like that don't grow on trees.

I guess you can make that argument but Zadina has the ability to change the course of a game in a matter of seconds due to his edgework, vision and shot. Tkachuk does not have that offensive ability. They are very different players for sure, hence the long argument on here and they will be effective in very different ways. I have just seen this game breaking ability more in Zadina's game than Tkachuk and I have watched them both about the same amount.

I nailed Kucherov being a star when he was 19 and I just cant help but see the similarities in his and Zadina's games.

 

[BondraTime]

I'm not even mad we never took Zadina, but I am disappointed, as of now, we kept the pick and took Tkachuk. Not what we need with that high a pick.

 

[JungleBeat]

I guess you can make that argument but Zadina has the ability to change the course of a game in a matter of seconds due to his edgework, vision and shot. Tkachuk does not have that offensive ability. They are very different players for sure, hence the long argument on here and they will be effective in very different ways. I have just seen this game breaking ability more in Zadina's game than Tkachuk and I have watched them both about the same amount.

I nailed Kucherov being a star when he was 19 and I just cant help but see the similarities in his and Zadina's games.

Zadina also has an endless motor and players with intensity/heart as well.

Zadina,Wahlstrom,Dobson, and Hughes would have all been better choices in IMO.