4th Overall the Senators Take Brady Tkachuk

[Ice-Tray]

Not really. We pinned for goaltending. Guys like Alfredsson and Hossa were monsters on the puck in their end. Revisionist history at best.

You're right about revisionist history that's for sure. I understand though because the truth still hurts. We'll see it all bubble up again next time we have to face the leafs in the playoffs.

Lalime had some of the best playoff numbers in the history of the game. He let in some softies here and there for sure, and some untimely goals as well, but we couldn't score goals and were easy to shut down as a team. Our top line guys were soft for the most part and had little push back against a leafs team that tested on us on and off the ice.

After years of playoff futility people wanted Alfie traded for anyone with grit who could push back in the playoffs and lead us to victory, I suppose you forgot about all of that though. It's not really a surprise that our best showings and a resurgence in the love for Alfie came with the break out of Chara, a singular player who brought the undisputed ability to fight back. Neil and McGratton beating down the leafs, Chara tossing McCabe, that's when we moved on from our soft choker days. It wasn't Alfie, heater, or Spezza, who turned things around by scoring on their own, the way the team played, the way they carried themselves changed, and they never looked back until the wheels fell off the team.

 

[topshelf15]

Tkachuk is going to be a good player. He is just not everyone's cup of tea as a hockey player ... Some people prefer the dipsy doodler , play with eggs in their pants and not break them kind of players, as long as they can make a quick move and score. IMO Tkachuk will end up being a more valuable player than Zadina. I would have much preferred Svechnikov but I would have chosen Tkachuk over Zadina so I have no issues with the pick. Dobson slipping out of the top 10 surprised me . I really like him as well.

Soft skilled forwards,that do nothing in the possession game isnt what we need right now

 

[topshelf15]

Didnt Blake wheeler score even less than BT ???

 

[coladin]

I think Tkachuk is a player this team needs more than possibly any other team in the NHL. We just don't have that type of player on this team. Nifty, nasty, and heart.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Didnt Blake wheeler score even less than BT ???

Was Blake Wheeler all about intangibles though?

For the record, he is growing on me

 

[Solarion]

Tkachuk is going to be a good player. He is just not everyone's cup of tea as a hockey player ... Some people prefer the dipsy doodler , play with eggs in their pants and not break them kind of players, as long as they can make a quick move and score. IMO Tkachuk will end up being a more valuable player than Zadina. I would have much preferred Svechnikov but I would have chosen Tkachuk over Zadina so I have no issues with the pick. Dobson slipping out of the top 10 surprised me . I really like him as well.

Brady will almost certainly turn out to be a good hockey player. IMO he has a very high floor. That said, I very seriously doubt he turns out to be more valuable than Zadina, Wahlstrom, Hughes, or Dobson. Edit: or Bouchard. On the other hand, I'd probably take Brady over Kotkaniemi. I don't get Montreal's pick at all, but they were going to take a center BPA be damned. I like Arizona's pick(Hayton) even less at number 5.

Time will tell how all this pans out.

 

[topshelf15]

Was Blake Wheeler all about intangibles though?

Is BT ???From what I have heard and seen ,he isnt some 3rd line grinder like some want to peg him out to be

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Getting to the net and dominating down low are not intangibles.

How do you measure that? How is that tangible?

 

[Masked]

Not outstanding numbers whatsoever.

Here's a history of 17YR old USNTDP forwards production over the last decade:

17YR Old USNTDP Forward Scoring.xlsx

Brady ranked 23rd in terms of PPG and 20th in terms of goals, despite being the 3rd highest drafted player on the list.

And draft-1 doesn't matter when you are a late birthday - the same age (17) as the other comparables.

Terrible list. You've got things all sorts of mixed up. For all of the other 2018 draftees you are using stats from the season after the one you are using for Brady.

Draft-1 absolutely matters because you're comparing his stats against his draft cohort.

 

[topshelf15]

How do you measure that? How is that tangible?

Because like shooting the puck, being a good forechecker and along the boards are also skills...

 

[bert]

Yeah, Heater wasn't a one dimensional scorer at all, but he was never able to regain his form after the car accident. Having said that he was also a multiple 50 goal scorer, it's not exactly Hoffman level scoring, and not something anyone should be comparing Zadina to.

Hossa was a good forechecker, but was not the beast you're now remembering. He was not an aggressive player, and not one to stick up for his line mates. He was dogged after the puck, and with the puck, and had lots of great attributes, but he wasn't in the mold of a Roberts, Tkachuk.

Yes, we can all look at untimely goals against, but most conveniently forget that not only couldn't we score, but we were fragile, and were often pushed around by other teams in the playoffs. During the Yashin years and afterwards.

Heatley was a one dimensional goal scorer yes. Thats what he did he scored goals, very well but he could not drive a line by his self. Put Prime Hossa on a line with Spezza and he outscores Heatley. Hell he outscored him without a first line centerman. No idea how you brought Zadina into this conversation either.

I know exactly the type of player Hossa was thanks, dont need the revisionist history that is incredibly inaccurate. Once again if you think a Gary Roberts grinding winger was the difference you are clueless. They lacked the ability to create offense from the middle of the ice because they didnt have a first line centerman.

Hossa was a very aggressive player, they had plenty of players to stick up for their teammates you dont have to fight to be a physical player. He drove the net and dominated the puck down low. He was way better than Gary Roberts, he scored goals all sorts of different ways. In 03 Hossa was the best player by far during the run, he dominated Scott Stevens down low and off the rush and gave Niedermayer fits.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Brady will almost certainly turn out to be a good hockey player. IMO he has a very high floor. That said, I very seriously doubt he turns out to be more valuable than Zadina, Wahlstrom, Hughes, or Dobson. Edit: or Bouchard. On the other hand, I'd probably take Brady over Kotkaniemi. I don't get Montreal's pick at all, but they were going to take a center BPA be damned.

Time will tell.

There was a lot of parity after the first 2 spots.. Dobson was in my mind the complete package kind of pick with upside .. The others you get something and give up something else. I think all the ones you listed will be good players and some will succeed earlier depending on the situations they are walking into and the opportunities they are given. A couple years from now a Tkachuk, Brown, White line should be pretty fun to watch.

 

[Solarion]

Brady Tkachuk is no "3rd line grinder" and Filip Zadina is no "Soft skilled forwards,that do(es) nothing in the possession game".

This is a mis-characterization to justify a bias imo.

There was a lot of parity after the first 2 spots.. Dobson was in my mind the complete package kind of pick with upside .. The others you get something and give up something else. I think all the ones you listed will be good players and some will succeed earlier depending on the situations they are walking into and the opportunities they are given. A couple years from now a Tkachuk, Brown, White line should be pretty fun to watch.

Agree re: Dobson. Islanders grabbed a bargain there. ...and yeah I agree there's not a huge gap between the guys between #4 and #6. To me that's where Brady fit in, but for me at least this was a clear 1 - 2 - 3 tiered draft, with Zadina clearly superior to 4-6 and clearly inferior to Svech.

Also agree Brady will be fun to watch...the kid has what it takes to make it in the NHL. If Ottawa had drafted him with a #7 pick I'd have no major gripe...provided Dobson and Zadina were gone.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Agreed. The difference is that one of them is our player and we should be excited about what he could turn into for us instead of groaning about what Zadina could turn into for another team.

BT's potential is sky high and yet some prefer to bring him down while pumping the tires of another team's prospect. I dunno, it seems like some are so down on the team these days that it extends to our own prospects.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Because like shooting the puck, being a good forechecker and along the boards are also skills...

I don't think you understand what the word tangible means.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Heatley was a one dimensional goal scorer yes. Thats what he did he scored goals, very well but he could not drive a line by his self. Put Prime Hossa on a line with Spezza and he outscores Heatley. Hell he outscored him without a first line centerman. No idea how you brought Zadina into this conversation either.

I know exactly the type of player Hossa was thanks, dont need the revisionist history that is incredibly inaccurate. Once again if you think a Gary Roberts grinding winger was the difference you are clueless. They lacked the ability to create offense from the middle of the ice because they didnt have a first line centerman.

Hossa was a very aggressive player, they had plenty of players to stick up for their teammates you dont have to fight to be a physical player. He drove the net and dominated the puck down low. He was way better than Gary Roberts, he scored goals all sorts of different ways. In 03 Hossa was the best player by far during the run, he dominated Scott Stevens down low and off the rush and gave Niedermayer fits.

What I'm gathering from this post is that you've lost your tie to the thread topic, and you have a serious love for Hossa.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I don't think you understand what the word tangible means.

I think he's referring to heart, leadership, courage, determination, energy, stuff like that.

 

[Solarion]

BT's potential is sky high and yet some prefer to bring him down while pumping the tires of another team's prospect. I dunno, it seems like some are so down on the team these days that it extends to our own prospects.

I haven't heard much anti-BT sentiment at all actually. The kid is hard not to like. The issue is where he was drafted, not the prospect himself. Disagree that his potential is "sky high" though. High? Sure, but he's not going to turn into an Art Ross candidate imo. If he turns into his dad then that'd be amazing, but even that seems like a bit of a reach...Kieth was something else.

 

[HSF]

Brady has soft hands and can finess plays when required

No idea why people keep saying otherwise

 

[topshelf15]

I don't think you understand what the word tangible means.

Forechecking and board play are tangible skills,BT also has intangible skills,like heart and grit....

 

[DrunkUncleDenis]

Get hyped. (Probably already posted but whatever).

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I think he's referring to heart, leadership, courage, determination, energy, stuff like that.

synonyms for tangible..."
touchable, palpable, material, physical, real, substantial, corporeal, solid, concrete;
visible, noticeable, actual, definite, clear, clear-cut, distinct, manifest, evident, unmistakable, perceptible, discernible"

Statistically measurable is not there.. The puck is dumped in the corner .. The opposing D goes to fetch it with Tkachuk on his tail... the fear that D feels is it tangible? is it perceptable? discernable? .. when they get there and the D tries to avoid a hit and Tkachuk takes him out of the play .... Is that tangible? I would say yes... , When the Tkachuk's team mate comes in to support and retrieves the loose puck left after the take out, Is that tangible? I would say for sure.. When that team mate finds the late man open in the slot and sets him up for a grade A chance .. is that play from Tkachuk instrumental? If so , its also tangible. It does not have to be measured as a statistic to be tangible.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Forechecking and board play are tangible skills,BT also has intangible skills,like heart and grit....

Right so if that is a tangible skill, how is it measured?

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Forechecking and board play are tangible skills,BT also has intangible skills,like heart and grit....

lol

 

[Solarion]

Brady has soft hands and can finess plays when required

No idea why people keep saying otherwise

Could you point me to where someone said otherwise? ...I missed it.

Do you believe that Brady Tkachuk will routinely challenge for the Art Ross or Rocket Richard trophies? Do you believe that he's more likely to do so than Filip Zadina? I certainly do not, though surely Brady could excel in other areas and thereby become more valuable to his team. Trouble is, those things are nearly impossible to predict, where scoring touch is not. Most guys either have the skill to score in bunches or they do not. Zadina has elite sniping skills and Brady does not.

Once again...there's nothing wrong with Brady Tkachuk. My only issue is that Montreal did Ottawa a solid by not choosing the BPA available at #3. All Dorion had to do is not screw it up.