4th Overall the Senators Take Brady Tkachuk

[Sens of Anarchy]

Stat watchers; One less goal for Brady; One more goal and point for Bowers .. Pretty sure this happened again as well.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

delete

 

[OttawaSenators11]

Stat watchers; One less goal for Brady; One more goal and point for Bowers .. Pretty sure this happened again as well.

I would have done the same empty net goal for 1st ever? nah

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Yeah, no. Skill is not easier to teach.

Lol I mistyped my post. Meant to say character is easier to teach.

 

[Uchiha]

Hope he goes to the OHL and develops offensive skills.

 

[Sun God Nika]

Hope he goes to the OHL and develops offensive skills.

He is NHL or Boston.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Speed and skill are nice but if we dont have guys willing to go into the dirty areas with purpose ,then what is the point...This team has been one of the worse possession/forecheck teams for far too long ...We didnt need another skilled permeter guy ,we needed the muscle and skill below the circles...

Who exactly do we have that is a skilled perimeter guy? Stone? Duchene? Dzingel? Pageau?

We just shipped out Hoffman. Aside from perhaps Ryan, all we have left are possession/forecheck guys.

We definitely needed some muscle, but not as our #1 overall pick. We needed a sniper BAD.

 

[Uchiha]

He is NHL or Boston.

Him scoring 20 points in the NHL doesn’t do much for us.

 

[Daffy]

Or London...

I'm not sure how realistic an option that is.

 

[BondraTime]

He is NHL or Boston.

Or London...

 

[Sens Vader]

can he play in the AHL?

 

[aragorn]

He is NHL or Boston.

I believe he & the Sens have a choice as to where he could play between Ottawa, Belleville, London or Boston Univ. I don't think the AHL rule of over 20 yrs old applies to European players or American players. Is that correct?

This article seems to indicate he can play in the AHL next yr.
"I don't think he's ready for the NHL yet. He still needs one more year somewhere, whether it's back at BU or in the AHL or the OHL".

Scouting 2018 NHL draft prospect Brady Tkachuk

 

[D0ctorCool]

I love what Mckenzie and I think McGuire said about the culture change factor with Tkachuk, and I completely agree. That alone is worth more than what Zadina brings.

 

[Cosmix]

I was mad about that as well and was told i am not a scout and to shut my mouth.

No need to do that. Just join the freedom fighters like Aragorn and I.

 

[aragorn]

Wow, can't seem to do anything without constant error messages, is the board that busy?

SOA - ultimate team player to give up a goal & give it to a teammate to score. Shows he doesn't care about personal rewards & wants his teammates & the team to do well, consummate professional & team player. Great Pick.

 

[Cosmix]

Interesting to see if he’s in the NHL next season. Does he put up more points than Mathew?

No and no for scoring next year.

 

[Korpse]

Bowers is 4 months older and had the same season. Should we be expecting him to become a great player like tkachuk? lol. this was a bad pick. I don't understand scouts love with size and character.it's high end skill that wins games not character. he also got overrated because of his name.

Hold up. One thing you have to remember that scouts are projecting players to the NHL level. Not to take away from Bowers who is a good prospect in his own right and projects to be a solid pro hockey player but it's important to remember scouts are projecting. One player outproducing another at the same level isnt an indication of much. My favorite example of this were the Mackinnon/Drouin debates at the 2013 NHL draft and its was fuelled by the fact that Drouin outproduced Mackinnon by 30 points in 5 more games while playing on the same team. It was a silly debate then and only looks more so now. Looking at hockeydb is fine and all but it doesnt tell a fraction of the story. Tkachuk has a lot of tools that will translate to the NHL level and thats why he is highly regarded.

On a side note, one thing I found interesting about Tkachuk in this draft is that he was often referred to as a goal scorer in my reading but his stat line at BU and in clips he really stood out as more of a playmaker. In an interview last night Trent Mann mentioned he is a balanced player and is a goalscorer as much as he is a playmaker but this season in BU he had Greenway as his centre and took on more of a playmaking role. One thing I observed with Brady was that he looks really comfortable making plays on his backhand which I personally value highly. You watch Crosby and one thing that separates him is how he can make plays on his backhand, Duchene is similar in that regard. You listen to Mark Schiefele talk about why he was able to take the next step and he attributes alot of that to being better with the puck on his backhand. The way he can distribute the puck from the slot reminds alot of Mark Stone as well.

 

[Korpse]

I was mad about that as well and was told i am not a scout and to shut my mouth.

Anyone is more than welcome to disagree with a decision, it's a discussion board after all. It's the comments about the guys who spend all year watching hundreds of kids being called idiots, thats when you need to shut your mouth.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Or London...

Or Belleville.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

2018 NHL Draft: Tkachuk vs. Zadina

 

[BondraTime]

Come on now, his character is important to the team, you know it, we all know it. Let's not confuse intangibles to mean stuff that doesn't happen on the ice, intangibles include his motor, his drive, his infectious excitement, all of which affects his teammates' play.

On it's own it has value of course, but the real value of intangibles is when you add them to impressive skills, it's what sets two players with a similar levels of skills apart. If you add in that Stone is apparently a vocal leader on the team and you have to admit that it starts to matter even more. It's not the only thing that matters, but we all know it matters.

Sure, we all know his character and leadership are fantastic. John Madden's were too, but he wasn't half the player Stone was, andhe never made guys better like Stone does.

I only brought up that Stone was a better offensive player because it was being framed that "we let the better offensive guy in Hoffman go, but stuck with the guy who is better all around and plays the game the right way in Stone, it's not all about the points...".

No, it's not all about the points, but Stone is the best point producer on the team outside Kalrsson, using him as an example for "other aspects are more important than points" doesn't make much sense. If Stone was producing at 45 points instead of the points he is now, he wouldn't be viewed the same way, even with the same character and intangibles.

Stone is the better offensive guy, which is supported by numbers and the eye test. The fact that he has great character and provides intangibles is fantastic, but it's not what makes him a special player. It is a hue asset, no doubt.

Hoffman and Stone aren't comparable offensively outside of Hoffman's speed and shot. Every other asset Stone demolishes Hoffman. Passing, vision, I.Q. He is literally top 10 in those aspects in the league.

Stone has great Character and Intangibles, no doubt, but it's his skillset that allows him to be an elite guy. He makes the team better by being the best offensive guy among our forwards.

His vision, I.Q and passing has more to do with making guys better than his leadership qualities. Same way Spezza made guys better, by his I.Q in the offensive zone, passing and vision.

Stone has great everything, he's a true hockey player. It's his skillset that makes him a special player, he's got the best vision in team history, he sees plays develop seconds before they start. His character and intangibles is just a huge bonus.

It's the same reason why guys with Character and Intangibles don't become stars like Stone, they don't have his offensive skills.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Sure, we all know his character and leadership are fantastic. John Madden's were too, but he wasn't half the player Stone was, andhe never made guys better like Stone does.

I only brought up that Stone was a better offensive player because it was being framed that "we let the better offensive guy in Hoffman go, but stuck with the guy who is better all around and plays the game the right way in Stone...".

Stone is the better offensive guy, which is supported by numbers and the eye test. The fact that he has great character and provides intangibles is fantastic, but it's not what makes him a special player. It is a hue asset, no doubt.

Hoffman and Stone aren't comparable offensively outside of Hoffman's speed and shot. Every other asset Stone demolishes Hoffman. Passing, vision, I.Q. He is literally top 10 in those aspects in the league.

Stone has great Character and Intangibles, no doubt, but it's his skillset that allows him to be an elite guy. He makes the team better by being the best offensive guy among our forwards.

His vision, I.Q and passing has more to do with making guys better than his leadership qualities. Same way Spezza made guys better, by his I.Q in the offensive zone, passing and vision.

Stone has great everything, he's a true hockey player. It's his skillset that makes him a special player, he's got the best vision in team history, he sees plays develop seconds before they start. His character and intangibles is just a huge bonus.

It's the same reason why guys with Character and Intangibles don't become stars like Stone, they don't have his offensive skills.

Are Drive.. Being a self starter, leadership, Will to win .. intangibles or tangibles ... Seems to me Crosby has the character and intangibles and he's managed in spite of having all that to become a star. You can have skill , you can have IQ, you can have vision .. without the will to succeed and compete and the drive to persevere won't matter. You need both ... there have been lots of players that have all the natural ability in the world that fall off along the way because they don't care... How many time have you seen an unskilled guy with so much heart and a skilled guy with no where near enough.

 

[Sensung]

Like the Brown Tkachuk angle. Hopefully their chemistry continues to grow with the Sens

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

I don't pretend to know much about these prospects, but I wasn't all that happy with this pick. The more I'm hearing everyone's reaction to it, the more I'm feeling better about it. I'm hoping his 8 goals are explained by something and the several analysts and scouts who still think he's not just a big body, but has the skill and speed to be a top line player.. hopefully they're right.

 

[BondraTime]

Are Drive.. Being a self starter, leadership, Will to win .. intangibles or tangibles ... Seems to me Crosby has the character and intangibles and he's managed in spite of having all that to become a star. You can have skill , you can have IQ, you can have vision .. without the will to succeed and compete and the drive to persevere won't matter. You need both ... there have been lots of players that have all the natural ability in the world that fall off along the way because they don't care... How many time have you seen an unskilled guy with so much heart and a skilled guy with no where near enough.

They are intangibles, they can't be measured unlike the tangibles of skill/skating/passing/shot/etc.

Crosby is/was the most talented player in the world, and has the intangibles. What do you mean in spite? He was destined to be a star.

We see unskilled guys with so much heart everywhere, that's my point, they can't reach the next level because they don't have the required skills, no matter what intangibles they posssess...

Literally 75% of the NHL's bottom 6 players are dogs who will to anything to win. Chris Kelly, Sean Donovan, Tom Pyatt, Alex Burrows, J.G Pageau, Leo Komorov, etc. Skill is what separates these guys, not their intangibles. If all it took were intangibles and character all these guys would be stars. The difference is made up in skill, which is what makes Mark Stone the player he is, which is supplemented by having great character and intangibles.

Then you have your Ribero's, guys with no character or intangibles. Put Stone's drive and head in Ribero and you have a franchise guy. Without it, he was a 1st/2nd line C that nobody wanted.

There are so many more guys in the league that can't reach the next level due to skills than there are that can't reach it due to character. Skills is the big difference maker.

 

[D0ctorCool]

Link?

I’m on mobile, so I hope the link works. But I rewatched the entire draft by NBC which had McGuire, Button, Mckenzie, Dreger...

For the record, they predicted everything. From hinting that Arizona would draft Hayton, NYR would draft Kravtsov, Ottawa maybe taking Tkachuk.

Before the draft starts, they did an awesome segment with our boys bromance (Hughes and Tkachuk) and it put any doubts of Tkachuk I had to rest. And if you scrub forward to about where you guys are going to draft, they were absolutely talking up Tkachuk. It’s a really good moment.

 

[Qward]

I will be honest, I wanted Zadina, especially to replace Hoffman. But if the Sens are going to change they need to change from what didnt work. Hopefully he brings a competitive nature and tenacity like they have been saying he has.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

I will be honest, I wanted Zadina, especially to replace Hoffman. But if the Sens are going to change they need to change from what didnt work. Hopefully he brings a competitive nature and tenacity like they have been saying he has.

Well the big thing that didn't work for this team last year was their coaching and goaltending. We drafted a guy in the 6th round and picked up a goalie in the Brassard deal but thus far absolutely nothing else has been done to address the management, PP, PK or goaltending for the near future. I think people are really reaching if they think the problems areas of the franchise have been in any way addressed this weekend.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

On the first part. I can buy that.

On the 2nd part .. I don't know.. I honestly could see something develop with Brown and a guy like White with Tkachuk too. They'd have to score by committee.. I think we are looking 3-4 years down the road to have a possible 2nd line caliber line that way though. Assuming Brady needs 1 more development year somewhere.. I would not expect a Hischier/Barzal/Keller level of offensive impact in his rookie year..So that's one additional year of adjusting and developing. Brown is probably in a similar spot and unless White has a break through of sorts so is he. Carrying the line.. I think he can contribute but he's no Svechnikov that way. I am not sure Zadina will be the guy to carry the line either. I do think Brady can develop to follow along Stone's line carrying capacity. not saying he will have the same strengths. Sens don't have a lot of those players..and I am not sure they were available this year. I think Svenchnikov (we can see that), maybe Kotkaniemi (could grow to that) .

If you're gonna pair up Tkachuk and Brown, you better put someone with them with some speed and finish. Hoffman would have been a great option...

I feel like a line of Tkachuk-Brown-White would so a lot but accomplish very little.

 

[Senscore]

This is pretty cool

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Are Drive.. Being a self starter, leadership, Will to win .. intangibles or tangibles ... Seems to me Crosby has the character and intangibles and he's managed in spite of having all that to become a star. You can have skill , you can have IQ, you can have vision .. without the will to succeed and compete and the drive to persevere won't matter. You need both ... there have been lots of players that have all the natural ability in the world that fall off along the way because they don't care... How many time have you seen an unskilled guy with so much heart and a skilled guy with no where near enough.

The right attitude and mentality can really help bring about domianant performance.

However if you don't have that dominant skill in the first place you aren't ever going to become a dominant playet. Not matter how insane your drive and will are.

There's a reason boro is an bottom pair/ahl defenceman despite having a generational attitude.

 

[Deku]

Could have drafted Galchenyuk, but chose Max Domi .

What is the point of this comparison? Galchenyuk is not exactly a great top 5 pick either

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

I love what Mckenzie and I think McGuire said about the culture change factor with Tkachuk, and I completely agree. That alone is worth more than what Zadina brings.

Yup, even more proof EK is signing. Immediately trading Hoffman and then drafting a character and locker-room changing guy in BT; also plays in a way none of our forwards do and a game we desperately need.

 

[topshelf15]

Who exactly do we have that is a skilled perimeter guy? Stone? Duchene? Dzingel? Pageau?

We just shipped out Hoffman. Aside from perhaps Ryan, all we have left are possession/forecheck guys.

We definitely needed some muscle, but not as our #1 overall pick. We needed a sniper BAD.

We dont need a skilled permeter guy,we need to be a better possession /forecheck team...A sniper does f*** all when you cant keep or get the puck back in the Ozone

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

I love what Mckenzie and I think McGuire said about the culture change factor with Tkachuk, and I completely agree. That alone is worth more than what Zadina brings.

Link?

 

[danielpalfredsson]

 

[DJB]

Thanks @Chris McKinlay !

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Are Drive.. Being a self starter, leadership, Will to win .. intangibles or tangibles ... Seems to me Crosby has the character and intangibles and he's managed in spite of having all that to become a star. You can have skill , you can have IQ, you can have vision .. without the will to succeed and compete and the drive to persevere won't matter. You need both ... there have been lots of players that have all the natural ability in the world that fall off along the way because they don't care... How many time have you seen an unskilled guy with so much heart and a skilled guy with no where near enough.

Ease a little bit off the cliche my dude.

 

[BondraTime]

We agree for the most part. I was referring to;
"Stone has great everything, he's a true hockey player. It's his skillset that makes him a special player, he's got the best vision in team history, he sees plays develop seconds before they start. His character and intangibles is just a huge bonus.

It's the same reason why guys with Character and Intangibles don't become stars like Stone, they don't have his offensive skills."
My point is Stone needs both the intangibles and the tangibles to become a star. So does Crosby. It works the other way too. All skill no drive ... no NHL player for long.
Re: Ribero.. we are saying the same thing. We have Boro .. a perfect example of a all heart and soul and drive and will intagibles type with a little less than desired skill.

I think we can expect Tkachuk to have a moderate amount of skill (enough) , but his intangibles make him better.. and I think he is still raw enough to have a couple more steps developmentally (on his tangibles)

Well yeah, his character and intangibles are great, very great, but they are not uncommon in the NHL; Boro/Donovan/Madden/etc.

It's his skillset that is uncommon among NHLers, that's what sets him apart.

Yes, Brady's drive and intangibles are an asset for sure. He does have skill, no doubt there; he isn't a 3rd line plug. He just doesn't have (IMO of course) the line carrying skill hat I want with a 4th overall pick. He's a great prospect, even if I would have taken some guys before him.

Simmonds had Giroux/Vorachek, Wilson had Kuznetsov/Ovehkin, Burrows had Sedin/Sedin, Bertuzzi had Naslund/Morrison, etc. We have that guy in Brady, now is Duchene/Stone those guys to play with him? These guys were all well into their 20's before they became the powerforwards we know now, how long until Brady is able to make that step, and with who? Duchen/Stone in 3/4 years?

 

[Dough72]

Sens brass needs to realize size and toughness matter less and less in the new NHL. Tired of seeing us waste 1st round picks.

Puck battles and cycling are always going to be important. If the new NHL is small speedy defencemen the obvious response is going to be another new NHL where teams load up on big physical forwards who destroy on puck battles and cycling. Good luck keeping guys like Tkachuk away from the front of the net or taking the puck off them once they hae the defencemen on their hip.

 

[starling]

I love what Mckenzie and I think McGuire said about the culture change factor with Tkachuk, and I completely agree. That alone is worth more than what Zadina brings.

How come Sens are drafting and signing character and intangibles over skill all the time, yet the room falls apart at the first bump on the road, so culture change is needed. I just

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Hard to look at this and not get excited.

Does it all.

 

[Ice-Tray]

They are intangibles, they can't be measured unlike the tangibles of skill/skating/passing/shot/etc.

Crosby is/was the most talented player in the world, and has the intangibles. What do you mean in spite? He was destined to be a star.

We see unskilled guys with so much heart everywhere, that's my point, they can't reach the next level because they don't have the required skills, no matter what intangibles they posssess...

Literally 75% of the NHL's bottom 6 players are dogs who will to anything to win. Chris Kelly, Sean Donovan, Tom Pyatt, Alex Burrows, J.G Pageau, Leo Komorov, etc. Skill is what separates these guys, not their intangibles. If all it took were intangibles and character all these guys would be stars. The difference is made up in skill, which is what makes Mark Stone the player he is, which is supplemented by having great character and intangibles.

Then you have your Ribero's, guys with no character or intangibles. Put Stone's drive and head in Ribero and you have a franchise guy. Without it, he was a 1st/2nd line C that nobody wanted.

There are so many more guys in the league that can't reach the next level due to skills than there are that can't reach it due to character. Skills is the big difference maker.

In all fairness you could also make a list of guys with all the talent in the world who also didn't make it because they didn't have the drive it took to make the big leagues.

Basic hockey skills are most important, for sure, but we see it all the time where guys with more skill get dominated by guys with more determination. We have had those players many times, and have suffered through that frustration.

We need to look at this as two parallel spectrums rather than black and white. More skill can beat out less skill and more intangibles, absolutely, but the closer the skills get, the more the intangibles make up and surpass the difference in raw skill. The best players in the NHL have both, and I'm not talking about Tampa players (great regular season example), I'm talking about the winners, the champions, the guys who drive their teams to win when it matters. Sens fans know what it's like to have all the skill in the world, and have it still not be enough.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

What is the point of this comparison? Galchenyuk is not exactly a great top 5 pick either

Habs were just crucified for making that deal

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

They are intangibles, they can't be measured unlike the tangibles of skill/skating/passing/shot/etc.

Crosby is/was the most talented player in the world, and has the intangibles. What do you mean in spite? He was destined to be a star.

We see unskilled guys with so much heart everywhere, that's my point, they can't reach the next level because they don't have the required skills, no matter what intangibles they posssess...

Literally 75% of the NHL's bottom 6 players are dogs who will to anything to win. Chris Kelly, Sean Donovan, Tom Pyatt, Alex Burrows, J.G Pageau, Leo Komorov, etc. Skill is what separates these guys, not their intangibles. If all it took were intangibles and character all these guys would be stars. The difference is made up in skill, which is what makes Mark Stone the player he is, which is supplemented by having great character and intangibles.

Then you have your Ribero's, guys with no character or intangibles. Put Stone's drive and head in Ribero and you have a franchise guy. Without it, he was a 1st/2nd line C that nobody wanted.

There are so many more guys in the league that can't reach the next level due to skills than there are that can't reach it due to character. Skills is the big difference maker.

We agree for the most part. I was referring to;
"Stone has great everything, he's a true hockey player. It's his skillset that makes him a special player, he's got the best vision in team history, he sees plays develop seconds before they start. His character and intangibles is just a huge bonus.

It's the same reason why guys with Character and Intangibles don't become stars like Stone, they don't have his offensive skills."
My point is Stone needs both the intangibles and the tangibles to become a star. So does Crosby. It works the other way too. All skill no drive ... no NHL player for long.
Re: Ribero.. we are saying the same thing. We have Boro .. a perfect example of a all heart and soul and drive and will intagibles type with a little less than desired skill.

I think we can expect Tkachuk to have a moderate amount of skill (enough) , but his intangibles make him better.. and I think he is still raw enough to have a couple more steps developmentally (on his tangibles)

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Well yeah, his character and intangibles are great, very great, but they are not uncommon in the NHL; Boro/Donovan/Madden/etc.

It's his skillset that is uncommon among NHLers, that's what sets him apart.

Yes, Brady's drive and intangibles are an asset for sure. He does have skill, no doubt there; he isn't a 3rd line plug. He just doesn't have (IMO of course) the line carrying skill hat I want with a 4th overall pick. He's a great prospect, even if I would have taken some guys before him.

Simmonds had Giroux/Vorachek, Wilson had Kuznetsov/Ovehkin, Burrows had Sedin/Sedin, Bertuzzi had Naslund/Morrison, etc. We have that guy in Brady, now is Duchene/Stone those guys to play with him? These guys were all well into their 20's before they became the powerforwards we know now, how long until Brady is able to make that step, and with who?

On the first part. I can buy that.

On the 2nd part .. I don't know.. I honestly could see something develop with Brown and a guy like White with Tkachuk too. They'd have to score by committee.. I think we are looking 3-4 years down the road to have a possible 2nd line caliber line that way though. Assuming Brady needs 1 more development year somewhere.. I would not expect a Hischier/Barzal/Keller level of offensive impact in his rookie year..So that's one additional year of adjusting and developing. Brown is probably in a similar spot and unless White has a break through of sorts so is he. Carrying the line.. I think he can contribute but he's no Svechnikov that way. I am not sure Zadina will be the guy to carry the line either. I do think Brady can develop to follow along Stone's line carrying capacity. not saying he will have the same strengths. Sens don't have a lot of those players..and I am not sure they were available this year. I think Svenchnikov (we can see that), maybe Kotkaniemi (could grow to that) .

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

If you're gonna pair up Tkachuk and Brown, you better put someone with them with some speed and finish. Hoffman would have been a great option...

I feel like a line of Tkachuk-Brown-White would so a lot but accomplish very little.

I agree a speedy scorer with them would be better . that's why I said they'd have to score by committee . In that 3-4 year window .. maybe Batherson can be that other winger. One pick of any of the forwards available to us was not going to plug all the holes and the picture will be different in 3-4 years certainly not suggesting that can happen with those 3 any time soon. I like Tkachuk as an ingredient on the team going forward but they still have many needs. The one forward available to us that could have been a more line driving dynamic player that imo projects easily into the top 6 is Kravtsov but Sens would never have chosen him.

 

[Cat Herder]

He is NHL or Boston.

actually he can choose to go to University, OHL or NHL (maybe AHL too if he does not sign with London). It all hinges on whether he signs a contract with the Sens or not

 

[Micklebot]

I remember during Brown's draft year, he got to another level and shot up the rankings after Windsor acquired Lemieux. Some out there speculated that Lemieux hustle and drive was a bit infectious and Brown started to hustle more and be more consistent. I hope Tkachuk can have that effect on him as well, and provide more skill than Lemieux while doing it. Before I was hopeful White would be the guy, but Tkachuk almost seems tailor made to do the dirty work with Brown.

Dzingel-Duchene-White
Tkachuk-Brown-Stone
Boedker-Pageau-Ryan?
Paajarvi-Smith-Pyatt

That seems pretty darn solid to me, if Batherson and Formenton are legit, even better.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Sure, we all know his character and leadership are fantastic. John Madden's were too, but he wasn't half the player Stone was, andhe never made guys better like Stone does.

I only brought up that Stone was a better offensive player because it was being framed that "we let the better offensive guy in Hoffman go, but stuck with the guy who is better all around and plays the game the right way in Stone, it's not all about the points...".

No, it's not all about the points, but Stone is the best point producer on the team outside Kalrsson, using him as an example for "other aspects are more important than points" doesn't make much sense. If Stone was producing at 45 points instead of the points he is now, he wouldn't be viewed the same way, even with the same character and intangibles.

Stone is the better offensive guy, which is supported by numbers and the eye test. The fact that he has great character and provides intangibles is fantastic, but it's not what makes him a special player. It is a hue asset, no doubt.

Hoffman and Stone aren't comparable offensively outside of Hoffman's speed and shot. Every other asset Stone demolishes Hoffman. Passing, vision, I.Q. He is literally top 10 in those aspects in the league.

Stone has great Character and Intangibles, no doubt, but it's his skillset that allows him to be an elite guy. He makes the team better by being the best offensive guy among our forwards.

His vision, I.Q and passing has more to do with making guys better than his leadership qualities. Same way Spezza made guys better, by his I.Q in the offensive zone, passing and vision.

Stone has great everything, he's a true hockey player. It's his skillset that makes him a special player, he's got the best vision in team history, he sees plays develop seconds before they start. His character and intangibles is just a huge bonus.

It's the same reason why guys with Character and Intangibles don't become stars like Stone, they don't have his offensive skills.

Thanks for this, it was a great read, and I agree. The only thing I would say is that his intangibles are what make him a special player. There are elite players, which is great, and then there are special players, which is different in my opinion. Stone is a special player, a guy who transcends his personal skills to affect the skills of those around him. Some guys do that in spades, some less so, but when you have have hockey skills AND intangibles, that's the guy I want.

Stone's skillset (his collection of skills) make him elite, his intangibles make him special. Tkachuk is that kind of player from what I have read and seen (heavily reliant on pro scout reports). He has an elite skill set, and the intangibles to be a special player. There is an attempt to frame the pick as a lesser skillset but intangibles to make up a little slack, when from what we're able to see and read the skillset is elite, just because Zadina has abetter knack for scoring doesn't mean that his skillset is better, they both have areas where they excel, and the entire skillset affects team scoring. What sets Brady above Zadina in my mind is that he has the intangibles that raise him from and elite player, to a special player.

I'm not looking to knock Zadina, but we took the bigger impact player, and I couldn't be happier. To be fair to those who wanted a different player, I understand that I don't have to argue tooth and nail for my position because we took the player I wanted.

 

[c_mak]

I really enjoy reading this debate. I think BT's skill is getting over looked because of his high character level.
BT is going to be an S.O.B. to play against when was the last time the Sens had someone like that in their line up. Vaclav Vranda?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Chris Kelly was a bottom 6 player with limited offensive skills. Therefore he played a strong defensive role using his speed to advantage. Some say that was high hockey IQ. It was not stupid, for sure, but I don’t see high Hockey IQ in that.

Hockey IQ is a very broad description.

A guy can have crappy hands and feet, but still see and understand parts of the game quite well. Like Stone...he is still slow as hell, but he's like a jedi and can see what's going to happen a few seconds ahead and manages to be at the right place at the right time. Other guys, like Kelly, can use their IQ and vision to be strong defensive players. Someone like Zadina has a specialized field of vision to find opportunities to pot goals.

Basically, what I'm saying is, having high hockey IQ doesn't necessarily mean a guy is going to be a wizard at both ends of the ice. It simply means he has a really high understanding of (parts of) the game.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I believe he should be pro next year. Spend some time in the AHL

 

[Bileur]

I remember during Brown's draft year, he got to another level and shot up the rankings after Windsor acquired Lemieux. Some out there speculated that Lemieux hustle and drive was a bit infectious and Brown started to hustle more and be more consistent. I hope Tkachuk can have that effect on him as well, and provide more skill than Lemieux while doing it. Before I was hopeful White would be the guy, but Tkachuk almost seems tailor made to do the dirty work with Brown.

Dzingel-Duchene-White
Tkachuk-Brown-Stone
Boedker-Pageau-Ryan?
Paajarvi-Smith-Pyatt

That seems pretty darn solid to me, if Batherson and Formenton are legit, even better.

I certainly agree with this. Like I said in the would you draft Zadina thread, the potential for getting Brown involved in games like Lemieux did is the main reason I was hesitating between Tkachuk and Zadina.

I found it interesting that one of Trent Mann’s comments about Tkachuk was something along the lines of him pulling you into the battle whether you want to be there or not. It certainly sounds like that was said in relation to Tkachuk’s teammates.

 

[SAK11]

I believe he should be pro next year. Spend some time in the AHL

Given how Dorion spoke about him after the draft, I think he’ll be a pro player this year. Hopefully they do send him to the AHL if his offensive game is struggling.

 

[Icelevel]

I remember during Brown's draft year, he got to another level and shot up the rankings after Windsor acquired Lemieux. Some out there speculated that Lemieux hustle and drive was a bit infectious and Brown started to hustle more and be more consistent. I hope Tkachuk can have that effect on him as well, and provide more skill than Lemieux while doing it. Before I was hopeful White would be the guy, but Tkachuk almost seems tailor made to do the dirty work with Brown.

Dzingel-Duchene-White
Tkachuk-Brown-Stone
Boedker-Pageau-Ryan?
Paajarvi-Smith-Pyatt

That seems pretty darn solid to me, if Batherson and Formenton are legit, even better.

That first line probably does not last. You’ve got duchenes wingers with pageau.

 

[TheSenator]

Ottawa looks to be making a trend of taking bigger/heavier players recently. Thomas Chabot, Logan Brown, Brady Tkachuk, Alex Formenton and even G Filip Gustavsson are all in the 6'2-6'6 range.

If these guys pan out we should be a tough team to play against.

 

[Micklebot]

That first line probably does not last. You’ve got duchenes wingers with pageau.

I don't think any line lasts indefinately, but Boucher has a tendancy of spreading things out, so it would not surprise me to have Ryan and/or Boedker with Pageau for an extended period. Whichever line is going gets more icetime, but having said that, Dzingel had the most goals and ponits out of the 4 options, so he may have the inside track for Duchene's wing.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I believe he should be pro next year. Spend some time in the AHL

IMO take it a step at a time.. Dev Camp.. How does he look. Does he stand out in a good way? .. If he does then sign him and go from ther to training camp.. I think Tkachuk will want to know how much time the team thinks he needs outside the NHL before he will sign. If he is open to going to London that is another option after training camp. I just have reservations about how much skill development went on in Belleville last year. The style of play and the relative skill on that team wasn't great for that. Maybe this year will be different but it will be pretty young.

 

[DueDiligence]

Lol I mistyped my post. Meant to say character is easier to teach.

Are you serious? Skills like skating, shooting and puck handling can be improved over time in almost all players with good coaching and training. If a guy is lazy or a d**k almost certainly he will be that for life!

 

[DueDiligence]

I really enjoy reading this debate. I think BT's skill is getting over looked because of his high character level.
BT is going to be an S.O.B. to play against when was the last time the Sens had someone like that in their line up. Vaclav Vranda?

I don't think the Sens ever had a forward like that. The only player who combined high talent with toughness and character would have been Chara.

 

[Icelevel]

I don't think the Sens ever had a forward like that. The only player who combined high talent with toughness and character would have been Chara.

I thought of chara too when thinking about the kind of impact he COULD have.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I don't think the Sens ever had a forward like that. The only player who combined high talent with toughness and character would have been Chara.

Good example considering he had the toughness and the character and was raw when he started .. And he developed into what I think is a great player.