Prospect Info: 47OA: Brady Cleveland

[newfy]

Why are we all the sudden assuming Cleveland is an NHLer? He'll be lucky to get as many games as Tinordi. It'd take a miracle considering he looks like a B league beer leaguer with the puck. Just watch that shift by shift video someone posted earlier.

Nobody is declaring him an NHLer, people are saying youre full of shit if you think that you can get a legit bottom pairing guy every offseason for league min, that is 6'5" and one of the meaner guys in the league.

He might not develop into that, youre right. But acting like its a bad pick because those guys can be had dirt cheap every year in free agency is an outright lie. The 2 guys given as examples have less than 400 games played combined over 14 seasons in the NHL. Those arent "legit" NHL bottom pairing guys, theyre legit scratches that get in the lineup for injuries every once in a while or against a tough opponent

 

[norrisnick]

What if he is Big Buff2.0

I'm assuming you have no idea who Byfuglien was apart from hit montages on youtube?

 

[Frk It]

Here are 3 issues I have with this pick:

-On a USDP team with the weakest blue line in a really really long time, the coaches did not think he was good enough to play on the power play or play a significant role (it’s not like Larkin being buried on the depth chart behind really good players)

-Unless there is an injury or reason I’m unaware of, the US program didn’t think he was worth inviting to the Summer Showcase. Augustine, Mazur, and Buium were all invited to the Summer Showcase for USA after getting drafted by us.

-He has shown virtually 0 offensive game so far and if he had some untapped offensive ability to be worth getting picked in the first 2 rounds, you think either my first or second point would be different stories.


I guess the hope is he can be like Tyler Kleven who played 8 games for Ottawa this year? But it is going to depend a lot on how he develops at Wisconsin and how the coaching staff views him as a player. Obviously the Wings view him quite differently than his coaches at the US program did. What do the Wisconsin coaches think of him and what opportunities will he get there?

 

[lilidk]

I'm assuming you have no idea who Byfuglien was apart from hit montages on youtube?

Honestly , not really, only watch Red Wings related stuff , but the way you asked, sounds like was something wrong about him

 

[norrisnick]

Honestly , not really, only watch Red Wings related stuff , but the way you asked, sounds like was something wrong about him

1. He was a forward for like the first 5 years of his career. Middle-six guy 30+ points with Chicago.
2. From '10-'11 until he retired in 2019 he was the 4th highest scoring defenseman in the NHL.
3. He wasn't great defensively. He could hit like a MFer and clear the crease but his roots as a forward were often telling if his team didn't have the puck. Not sound at all positionally.

The only way Cleveland compares to Byfuglien is height and handedness. Brady would have to gain like 50-60lbs and not lose any mobility to get to Buff's final form from a purely physical standpoint.

 

[Gniwder]

Nobody is declaring him an NHLer, people are saying youre full of shit if you think that you can get a legit bottom pairing guy every offseason for league min, that is 6'5" and one of the meaner guys in the league.

He might not develop into that, youre right. But acting like its a bad pick because those guys can be had dirt cheap every year in free agency is an outright lie. The 2 guys given as examples have less than 400 games played combined over 14 seasons in the NHL. Those arent "legit" NHL bottom pairing guys, theyre legit scratches that get in the lineup for injuries every once in a while or against a tough opponent

I picked the first 2 guys I know that are tall out of the UFA signing list. How about Bortuzzo? Josh Brown is another. Harpur is a tweener, but he's also tall. As is Megna.

Quite frankly, if you're looking for hard hitters, height really shouldn't be a criteria. The hardest hitter and best fighter on the Wings in the past decade was Witter at 6'2".

And if I'm looking for a hard checking and fighting guy, I'd rather have it be a forward like Maroon. You don't need one of your defensemen in the penalty box for 10+ minutes.

 

[Gniwder]

Here are 3 issues I have with this pick:

-On a USDP team with the weakest blue line in a really really long time, the coaches did not think he was good enough to play on the power play or play a significant role (it’s not like Larkin being buried on the depth chart behind really good players)

-Unless there is an injury or reason I’m unaware of, the US program didn’t think he was worth inviting to the Summer Showcase. Augustine, Mazur, and Buium were all invited to the Summer Showcase for USA after getting drafted by us.

-He has shown virtually 0 offensive game so far and if he had some untapped offensive ability to be worth getting picked in the first 2 rounds, you think either my first or second point would be different stories.


I guess the hope is he can be like Tyler Kleven who played 8 games for Ottawa this year? But it is going to depend a lot on how he develops at Wisconsin and how the coaching staff views him as a player. Obviously the Wings view him quite differently than his coaches at the US program did. What do the Wisconsin coaches think of him and what opportunities will he get there?

Wasted effort, I don't think any of these people supporting the pick even bothered to watch him play at all. It's just blind support for a player because Draper drafted him.

 

[Henkka]

The only way Cleveland compares to Byfuglien is height and handedness. Brady would have to gain like 50-60lbs and not lose any mobility to get to Buff's final form from a purely physical standpoint.

They have different handnesses. Cleveland is lefty and Byfuglien was righty.

 

[Henkka]

He is the better skating Braydon Coburn Yzerman was a big fan of.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Here are 3 issues I have with this pick:

-On a USDP team with the weakest blue line in a really really long time, the coaches did not think he was good enough to play on the power play or play a significant role (it’s not like Larkin being buried on the depth chart behind really good players)

-Unless there is an injury or reason I’m unaware of, the US program didn’t think he was worth inviting to the Summer Showcase. Augustine, Mazur, and Buium were all invited to the Summer Showcase for USA after getting drafted by us.

-He has shown virtually 0 offensive game so far and if he had some untapped offensive ability to be worth getting picked in the first 2 rounds, you think either my first or second point would be different stories.


I guess the hope is he can be like Tyler Kleven who played 8 games for Ottawa this year? But it is going to depend a lot on how he develops at Wisconsin and how the coaching staff views him as a player. Obviously the Wings view him quite differently than his coaches at the US program did. What do the Wisconsin coaches think of him and what opportunities will he get there?

I'm not convinced that everyone has to be an offensive guy at lower levels if that's not what you're looking for them to become at the NHL level.

Wasted effort, I don't think any of these people supporting the pick even bothered to watch him play at all. It's just blind support for a player because Draper drafted him.

I've watched a couple of videos of him + dev camp. Looks to me like a guy that moves pretty well, has solid defensive fundamentals, takes the body every possible time, and never tries to do anything special with the puck except moving it to someone else.

 

[izlez]

Wasted effort, I don't think any of these people supporting the pick even bothered to watch him play at all. It's just blind support for a player because Draper drafted him.

As someone on the other side of the conversation, I'm not even supporting the pick. I'm criticizing the people that are blatantly admitting they have never seen him play, basing their opinion of him on other people of similar size, and saying they know more than our scouts who have seen him.

If you've seen him play more than the single video that is available on youtube, I'd love to hear your opinions on him.

 

[izlez]

Here are 3 issues I have with this pick:

-On a USDP team with the weakest blue line in a really really long time, the coaches did not think he was good enough to play on the power play or play a significant role (it’s not like Larkin being buried on the depth chart behind really good players)

"USDP's weakest blueline in a long time" includes 6 defenseman taken in this years draft + the #10 & #20 rated prospects in next years draft. Aside from USNTDP, I imagine that is among the among the most stacked teams ever. Maybe in a different role on a CHL or USHL team he'd be able to show his offensive game more. I don't know, I've only seen the one video of him.

-Unless there is an injury or reason I’m unaware of, the US program didn’t think he was worth inviting to the Summer Showcase. Augustine, Mazur, and Buium were all invited to the Summer Showcase for USA after getting drafted by us.

It'd be nice to get confirmation one way or the other.

-He has shown virtually 0 offensive game so far and if he had some untapped offensive ability to be worth getting picked in the first 2 rounds, you think either my first or second point would be different stories.

Is this based on looking at his stats or have you seen him play some? Again, with the stacked roster and the one video online, I don't really know what roles he's being put in and don't feel like I can evaluate his offensive game to know if there is potential or not.


I really do appreciate you adding some context to actually evaluate the player and hope this doesn't come off as attacking in any way. I'm curious about the player

 

[ricky0034]

"USDP's weakest blueline in a long time" includes 6 defenseman taken in this years draft + the #10 & #20 rated prospects in next years draft. Aside from USNTDP, I imagine that is among the among the most stacked teams ever. Maybe in a different role on a CHL or USHL team he'd be able to show his offensive game more. I don't know, I've only seen the one video of him.


It'd be nice to get confirmation one way or the other.


Is this based on looking at his stats or have you seen him play some? Again, with the stacked roster and the one video online, I don't really know what roles he's being put in and don't feel like I can evaluate his offensive game to know if there is potential or not.


I really do appreciate you adding some context to actually evaluate the player and hope this doesn't come off as attacking in any way. I'm curious about the player

you make it sound like the team was filled with 1st rounders or something

one of those 6 was Cleveland himself, one of them was drafted 154th and only played 1 game with the team, and the other 4 were drafted 90th,125th,138th, and 177th

some guys drafted 90th-177th shouldn't be an issue for a guy drafted 47th no matter how many of them there are

 

[izlez]

you make it sound like the team was filled with 1st rounders or something

one of those 6 was Cleveland himself, one of them was drafted 154th and only played 1 game with the team, and the other 4 were drafted 90th,125th,138th, and 177th

some guys drafted 90th-177th shouldn't be an issue for a guy drafted 47th no matter how many of them there are

Yep. All added context. "One of the weakest" sounds really bad when there's CHL teams that pretty regularly have 0 NHL players. "6 guys drafted" might sound too strong without knowing where they were drafted.

I missed the guy who had 1 game. I was looking at that for the other guys and wouldn't have included him if I noticed.

 

[Frk It]

I'm not convinced that everyone has to be an offensive guy at lower levels if that's not what you're looking for them to become at the NHL level.

Even defensive defenseman have to be able to retrieve and move picks and give you something in the offensive zone.

I actually think our other 2nd round pick (Gibson) projects to be a defensive defenman at the NHL level, but I’m a lot less worried about his offensive game and overall projection.

He is the better skating Braydon Coburn Yzerman was a big fan of.

Maybe? Not a bad thought. That was back when NHL teams used to pick big guys with little offense with high picks and hope the offense would come later. But he was a solid player for awhile in the league.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Even defensive defenseman have to be able to retrieve and move picks and give you something in the offensive zone.

I actually think our other 2nd round pick (Gibson) projects to be a defensive defenman at the NHL level, but I’m a lot less worried about his offensive game and overall projection.

I was a bit down on the Gibson pick at first but after doing some digging and watching I'm behind it. The Cleveland pick seems like a total redundancy though. If you just picked a guy that projects to be a scrappy bottom pair defender why double down on it in the same round?

 

[Frk It]

I was a bit down on the Gibson pick at first but after doing some digging and watching I'm behind it. The Cleveland pick seems like a total redundancy though. If you just picked a guy that projects to be a scrappy bottom pair defender why double down on it in the same round?

I fear that our front office overreacted to those games we got punched in the mouth by Ottawa a bit too much and it spilled over into their draft strategy.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I fear that our front office overreacted to those games we got punched in the mouth by Ottawa a bit too much and it spilled over into their draft strategy.

You're probably right. But if that's the concern then have NYR send Detroit another 2nd to take Barclay Goodrow off their hands and sign Ryan Reaves instead of Christian Fischer. The toughness need is immediate. Cleveland as a longshot prospect does nothing to make the team tougher against Ottawa this season.

 

[Henkka]

I fear that our front office overreacted to those games we got punched in the mouth by Ottawa a bit too much and it spilled over into their draft strategy.

Just like they overreacted by drafting gritty Kasper, Mazur, Hanas, Seider, Grewe, they have all the time drafted those guys. I like this more than drafting just p***ycats.

Everybody will love those players when some of them will pan out.

But if that's the concern then have NYR send Detroit another 2nd to take Barclay Goodrow off their hands and sign Ryan Reaves instead of Christian Fischer. The toughness need is immediate. Cleveland as a longshot prospect does nothing to make the team tougher against Ottawa this season.

They added Kostin now as immediate factor. Something for opposite teams to look for. And Fischer is physical too, not a goon like Reaves, but a real gritty hockeyplayer and a special teams guy.

 

[HisNoodliness]

I fear that our front office overreacted to those games we got punched in the mouth by Ottawa a bit too much and it spilled over into their draft strategy.

You're probably right. But if that's the concern then have NYR send Detroit another 2nd to take Barclay Goodrow off their hands and sign Ryan Reaves instead of Christian Fischer. The toughness need is immediate. Cleveland as a longshot prospect does nothing to make the team tougher against Ottawa this season.

And I'm more okay with targeting these guys in the second if you couldn't argue that we leave any skill on the table in the first. That's not really true though. Besides Raymond and now ASP, we've targeted well-rounded athletic types with all of our 1sts. There's a reasonable projection for our future top 4 defense as including 6'4 Edvinsson, 6'3 Seider, and 6'4 Wallinder. Our forward prospects aren't small and most have a feisty edge. We need some players that can score.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

And I'm more okay with targeting these guys in the second if you couldn't argue that we leave any skill on the table in the first. That's not really true though. Besides Raymond and now ASP, we've targeted well-rounded athletic types with all of our 1sts. There's a reasonable projection for our future top 4 defense as including 6'4 Edvinsson, 6'3 Seider, and 6'4 Wallinder. Our forward prospects aren't small and most have a feisty edge. We need some players that can score.

I think that our top 4 forward prospects hold up well against any top 4 forwards from any other team's prospect pool in large part because of their two-way play, tenacity and skating. However, I do agree that it would have been beneficial to add at least one more forward to the prospect pool this draft with top 6/top 9 potential.

 

[Detroit Knights]

I fear that our front office overreacted to those games we got punched in the mouth by Ottawa a bit too much and it spilled over into their draft strategy.

If this was the case, then we would have traded up to get a leonard or Honzek no?

 

[Frk It]

And I'm more okay with targeting these guys in the second if you couldn't argue that we leave any skill on the table in the first. That's not really true though. Besides Raymond and now ASP, we've targeted well-rounded athletic types with all of our 1sts. There's a reasonable projection for our future top 4 defense as including 6'4 Edvinsson, 6'3 Seider, and 6'4 Wallinder. Our forward prospects aren't small and most have a feisty edge. We need some players that can score.

I have no issues with taking guys like Kasper or Danielson. Danielson in particular I think has a better offensive game than most give him credit for.

Even if we need more scoring on the wing.. I mean over the last month we have seen us trade for DeBrincat and a guy like Tarasenko be available for pretty cheap in free agency.

I have not had much of an issue at all with what Yzerman and Draper have done in the first, I am just not a fan of their strategy/philosophy with the picks in rounds 2-7 for the most part. With the amount of draft capital we have had I think we should have been taking a lot more big swings with those picks.

 

[Gniwder]

You're probably right. But if that's the concern then have NYR send Detroit another 2nd to take Barclay Goodrow off their hands and sign Ryan Reaves instead of Christian Fischer. The toughness need is immediate. Cleveland as a longshot prospect does nothing to make the team tougher against Ottawa this season.

or traded for Maroon. I said it earlier, if you want a hard hitting goon, you want it to be a forward, not a defenseman.

We'll all just laugh about this thread in 5 years much like the Cholo threads, some people never change, lol.

 

[newfy]

Just like they overreacted by drafting gritty Kasper, Mazur, Hanas, Seider, Grewe, they have all the time drafted those guys. I like this more than drafting just p***ycats.

They added Kostin now as immediate factor. Something for opposite teams to look for. And Fischer is physical too, not a goon like Reaves, but a real gritty hockeyplayer and a special teams guy.

It seems like there has been more of an emphasis on gritty, two way type players in the last few years,but its hard to argue with the results so far.

Kostin will be a good add too. Theres no one on Ottawa that is "tougher" than him. Outside of the Reaves and Lucic's of the league, he can pretty much be even with anyone else around.