Post-Game Talk: #28 - 12/02/18 | jets @ RANGERS | 6:00 - MSG

[kovazub94]

Quinn is applying freshmen approach to integration of our rookies into the line-up. Makes a lot of sense.

On a related noted Quinn is also a developing rookie coach, duh.

And even though we do give love to Zibanejad - it is still not enough. Legit #1 center.

 

[Larrybiv]

I’m sorry but I have no idea how any watches Lias Andersson and goes “man great pick at 7 especially considering we are desperate for high end talent. That kid has all the tools to be a 60 plus point player in his prime”.

The kid has zero tools zero. We just can not afford to not get game breaking talent drafting in the top 7 picks again. Cannot do it. We’re going to have that chance again this summer and I’m terrified at what we might do.

I’m sorry I don’t want to keep bringing it up but I can’t get over it. He shows nothing that makes you go yeah I see it. He just has to put it all together. He doesn’t have the skills the size the skating to actually put together.

Man, i have been saying that since last year.......(not too much mind you, because I didnt wanna be judgmental and everyone else cant be wrong, so I must be)......so, fast forward and I am still not seeing how he will be able to compete at this level.
Im sure he will at least be a 3rd line center, and fill in on the wing if needed......play a good defensive game (smart), but just please explain HOW we could have thought so much of him to choose him 7th? Freaking 7th? God, I hope I am wrong, but I am with you......seems we WASTED 2 major opportunities last year. Anybody can be a 3rd or 4th line center, not a 7 pick. Uggh.

 

[Crease]

I fall into the category of people who projects Andersson to be a second liner and is fine with the pick. The draft class wasn't strong at the top. It's clear to me that Andersson has a better 200 foot game at his age than most do, but not the same level of top skills that generally translate to a first liner. I think the Rangers took him because he was basically the only guy left on the board who is essentially guaranteed to have a lengthy NHL career.

 

[Edge]

I fall into the category of people who projects Andersson to be a second liner and is fine with the pick. The draft class wasn't strong at the top. It's clear to me that Andersson has a better 200 foot game at his age than most do, but not the same level of top skills that generally translate to a first liner.

And maybe that's why I am not worried either. Andersson, to me, always struck me as a second line, utility-knife kind of player.

Obviously, the idea would be for him to be one of the best in that type of role, but I never really viewed Andersson's game depending on the offense translating into a first line center capacity.

 

[Larrybiv]

That was such a Pejorative Slured post, just had to eliminate it. My bad.

 

[will1066]

Show me sand the floor...

Now show me paint the fence...

Ay!

You are ready Lias-san...

I told you... SWEEP. THE. LEG.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I'm fine too and seeing an improvement (in Lias) last night compared to the game in Montreal is something I could put in a plus column. He's definitely (and not unexpectedly) is fighting it a bit in his NHL transition, and if not for the injuries he'd probably had a chance to skip a game to take a breath and watch a game from above.

Yeah, I notice improvements with Lias too. He's still in his first 20 games in the NHL, he's going to have ups and downs. I'm not sure why so many people are lining up to act like he's a bust and a finished product.

The kid is in his second post draft season. I assumed on HF of all places that people are aware of the growth curve for hockey players, even in today's day and age where players are making the league earlier than ever. Elite prospects can hang and look good at 19-20, others it will take a couple years.

If Lias is 25 and still looks how he does now, then okay, but the kid is adjusting and growing into himself as an NHL player.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

You know where they really went wrong last year? BEFORE the draft and ending up 4 pts ahead of Vancouver. We beat them twice (both in OT/SO) and that 3 game western swing in which they beat aforementioned, along with Calgary and Edmonton. Just imagine had we had the chance to draft Pettersson at #5. Neither here, nor there......i know.

My point is......we need to be careful here, our GOAL is to give us our "best shot" at getting someone like him. A SHOT, that we seemed to have shot wide, last year with Lias.

Petterson/Andersson draft wasn't last year, it was 2017. We acquired the 7th pick we used on Andersson from Arizona in the Stepan trade. We lost in the second round of the playoffs that season, our finish had nothing to do with it.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Man, i have been saying that since last year.......(not too much mind you, because I didnt wanna be judgmental and everyone else cant be wrong, so I must be)......so, fast forward and I am still not seeing how he will be able to compete at this level.
Im sure he will at least be a 3rd line center, and fill in on the wing if needed......play a good defensive game (smart), but just please explain HOW we could have thought so much of him to choose him 7th? Freaking 7th? God, I hope I am wrong, but I am with you......seems we WASTED 2 major opportunities last year. Anybody can be a 3rd or 4th line center, not a 7 pick. Uggh.

2?

The hell are you talking about.

 

[offdacrossbar]

time for my rant.

the talent void between the real loaded teams and us is striking.

we have the better goalie most nights and thats keeping us in games.

the defense we bring every night has marc staal as one of our most consistent and steady guys. nuf said. the smiths and shatty's and brady skjeis are dragging this team into mediocrity or worse.

we have one 2nd line and two 3rd lines and a nifty fifth line most nights. the defense is made up of 6 guys who shouldn't ever see first line assignments ever.

the winning streak was fun for sure but now the reality is that we suck again.

im still not sold on the trade hayes at all cost thing and probably wont be because im not so in love with our ability to draft impact players no matter what position we have come draft day. adding byrum does nothing to replace losing kevin hayes.

i agree this is a deep centerman draft, but are there any difference makers and when will they make that difference ? cozens, lavoie, dach, krebs and turcotte all nice prospects but will they ever be as good a KH ?

wouldn't i rather have podkolzin and hayes or byrum and hayes ? yep.

this team needs more talent. but subtracting hayes- and his substantial talent from this talent pool and adding maybes and hope so's doesnt make me all tingly like it does most of your here. this rebuild thing could take 3-5 yrs and thats along time imo. seems unlikely.

lastly, i am not of the mind that we are "stacked" at center. chytl looks fine on the edge- who knows where he ends up. mika is playing like a 1/2C which is good. hayes is a perfect 2. after that howden might be a 2 who knows. andersson doesnt seem to have the overall speed to be more than a 2/3 maybe im wrong.

drafting a 1C is difficult. drafting another or more 2's seems more likely. so moving hayes for the chance to develop or draft another 2 down the road seems to me to be lateral. and thats a big maybe with no guarantees and thats my problem.

 

[Edge]

time for my rant.

the talent void between the real loaded teams and us is striking.

we have the better goalie most nights and thats keeping us in games.

the defense we bring every night has marc staal as one of our most consistent and steady guys. nuf said. the smiths and shatty's and brady skjeis are dragging this team into mediocrity or worse.

we have one 2nd line and two 3rd lines and a nifty fifth line most nights. the defense is made up of 6 guys who shouldn't ever see first line assignments ever.

the winning streak was fun for sure but now the reality is that we suck again.

im still not sold on the trade hayes at all cost thing and probably wont be because im not so in love with our ability to draft impact players no matter what position we have come draft day. adding byrum does nothing to replace losing kevin hayes.

i agree this is a deep centerman draft, but are there any difference makers and when will they make that difference ? cozens, lavoie, dach, krebs and turcotte all nice prospects but will they ever be as good a KH ?

wouldn't i rather have podkolzin and hayes or byrum and hayes ? yep.

this team needs more talent. but subtracting hayes- and his substantial talent from this talent pool and adding maybes and hope so's doesnt make me all tingly like it does most of your here. this rebuild thing could take 3-5 yrs and thats along time imo. seems unlikely.

lastly, i am not of the mind that we are "stacked" at center. chytl looks fine on the edge- who knows where he ends up. mika is playing like a 1/2C which is good. hayes is a perfect 2. after that howden might be a 2 who knows. andersson doesnt seem to have the overall speed to be more than a 2/3 maybe im wrong.

drafting a 1C is difficult. drafting another or more 2's seems more likely. so moving hayes for the chance to develop or draft another 2 down the road seems to me to be lateral. and thats a big maybe with no guarantees and thats my problem.

Takeaway, you reaaaaaaalllly like Kevin Hayes.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

time for my rant.

the talent void between the real loaded teams and us is striking.

we have the better goalie most nights and thats keeping us in games.

the defense we bring every night has marc staal as one of our most consistent and steady guys. nuf said. the smiths and shatty's and brady skjeis are dragging this team into mediocrity or worse.

we have one 2nd line and two 3rd lines and a nifty fifth line most nights. the defense is made up of 6 guys who shouldn't ever see first line assignments ever.

the winning streak was fun for sure but now the reality is that we suck again.

im still not sold on the trade hayes at all cost thing and probably wont be because im not so in love with our ability to draft impact players no matter what position we have come draft day. adding byrum does nothing to replace losing kevin hayes.

i agree this is a deep centerman draft, but are there any difference makers and when will they make that difference ? cozens, lavoie, dach, krebs and turcotte all nice prospects but will they ever be as good a KH ?

wouldn't i rather have podkolzin and hayes or byrum and hayes ? yep.

this team needs more talent. but subtracting hayes- and his substantial talent from this talent pool and adding maybes and hope so's doesnt make me all tingly like it does most of your here. this rebuild thing could take 3-5 yrs and thats along time imo. seems unlikely.

lastly, i am not of the mind that we are "stacked" at center. chytl looks fine on the edge- who knows where he ends up. mika is playing like a 1/2C which is good. hayes is a perfect 2. after that howden might be a 2 who knows. andersson doesnt seem to have the overall speed to be more than a 2/3 maybe im wrong.

drafting a 1C is difficult. drafting another or more 2's seems more likely. so moving hayes for the chance to develop or draft another 2 down the road seems to me to be lateral. and thats a big maybe with no guarantees and thats my problem.

All great points but we started a rebuild in the spring so not sure what you were expecting. Hayes is as good as gone for most of the reasons you mentioned, we need better players, the gap between us and better teams is humongous, we need to draft as many players as possible and hope a lot of them work out. Keeping Hayes doesnt make us better it makes us the same.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

I told you... SWEEP. THE. LEG.

Mercy is for the weak...

 

[offdacrossbar]

I'm going to operate under the assumption that the Rangers have 3 firsts again in this draft (hoping for 4, but we'll see).

To me, I think the focus will once again be on the second of those picks.

I think the Rangers probably pick around 5 or 6, and end up with their second pick falling around the 26 or 27 spot. I think they look to turn that pick into a high 20s, late teens pick. And live with the cost.

With Gordie Clark and company, I don't quite get the impression that there's the appetite to splurge and go with two top 10 picks. I think they like to see if someone high on their list falls, and then make a substantial, but not extreme offer to move up.

I could see them packaging a second to move up for 26 to 21 again. But I think two late firsts would probably only get you into the 15-19 range, and I'll venture that's probably a little too rich for the Rangers taste.

probably about right @Edge and thus more so-so picks and more maybes and who knows.

if we are in that range you describe, volume will need to be more important than quality and thats where i worry. more average over 1 special kid.

and again, this the same cant shoot straight group who drafted olaf lindbom 39th overall effectively removing the air from an otherwise great 1st day last year. krav, miller and even lundkvist were all smart picks but taking a goalie 39th over all. woof.

the move up for miller last year was a win imo. that pick was perhaps the single best pick they made the last few years. i think miller has the game to be a grand slam.

having said that, im just not sure this group is capable of getting it done enough to land that kid to play 1C minutes even if hes there when we step to the podium.

 

[Ghost of jas]

And maybe that's why I am not worried either. Andersson, to me, always struck me as a second line, utility-knife kind of player.

Obviously, the idea would be for him to be one of the best in that type of role, but I never really viewed Andersson's game depending on the offense translating into a first line center capacity.

I’m of the mind that the goal should be to draft and develop enough high end forwards that Andersson and Howden become top end third liners. You’ve got Zibanejad, Kreider, Chytil and Kravtsov, and I maintain this team ends up drafting top five, so the opportunity at the he current time is to grab one of Dach, Cozens or Podkolzin. That’s how you build what we saw in Winnipeg last night.

 

[will1066]

Mercy is for the weak...

Winnepeg was Cobra Kai.

 

[will1066]

I’m of the mind that the goal should be to draft and develop enough high end forwards that Andersson and Howden become top end third liners. You’ve got Zibanejad, Kreider, Chytil and Kravtsov, and I maintain this team ends up drafting top five, so the opportunity at the he current time is to grab one of Dach, Cozens or Podkolzin. That’s how you build what we saw in Winnipeg last night.

You make it sound so easy. "Let's go out there and draft high-end forwards." If it were that simple, 30 teams would also be doing it. I get the whole take one huge step back to take three steps forward. This, however, is not a small-market team. There are business demands for Dolan. He might be up for a rebuild, but if you think he's going to let this fester for more than a couple of years, dream on. You're going to need warm bodies in the meantime.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Winnepeg was Cobra Kai.

Lundqvist is a mid 30s Swedish Daniel LaRusso.

 

[kovazub94]

You know where they really went wrong last year? BEFORE the draft and ending up 4 pts ahead of Vancouver. We beat them twice (both in OT/SO) and that 3 game western swing in which they beat aforementioned, along with Calgary and Edmonton. Just imagine had we had the chance to draft Pettersson at #5. Neither here, nor there......i know.

My point is......we need to be careful here, our GOAL is to give us our "best shot" at getting someone like him. A SHOT, that we seemed to have shot wide, last year with Lias.

What Are You Talking About? Lias was drafted with Arizona pick from Stepan trade.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Petterson/Andersson draft wasn't last year, it was 2017. We acquired the 7th pick we used on Andersson from Arizona in the Stepan trade. We lost in the second round of the playoffs that season, our finish had nothing to do with it.

2017 was definitely last year, but I understand why you phrase it that way

 

[Ghost of jas]

You make it sound so easy. "Let's go out there and draft high-end forwards." If it were that simple, 30 teams would also be doing it. I get the whole take one huge step back to take three steps forward. This, however, is not a small-market team. There are business demands for Dolan. He might be up for a rebuild, but if you think he's going to let this fester for more than a couple of years, dream on. You're going to need warm bodies in the meantime.

They’re going to have an opportunity to add another in the upcoming draft, and they’ve already potentially have four that I listed. I’m not sure what I sketched out is so difficult.

 

[Edge]

probably about right @Edge and thus more so-so picks and more maybes and who knows.

if we are in that range you describe, volume will need to be more important than quality and thats where i worry. more average over 1 special kid.

and again, this the same cant shoot straight group who drafted olaf lindbom 39th overall effectively removing the air from an otherwise great 1st day last year. krav, miller and even lundkvist were all smart picks but taking a goalie 39th over all. woof.

the move up for miller last year was a win imo. that pick was perhaps the single best pick they made the last few years. i think miller has the game to be a grand slam.

having said that, im just not sure this group is capable of getting it done enough to land that kid to play 1C minutes even if hes there when we step to the podium.

Personally, I think the Rangers have picked well. It goes back to that whole conversation of not really seeing who we passed on that was obvious.

I get that people want that first line center, I very much do as well, but if that player isn't there when we pick, I don't think our desire changes that reality.

I think this draft has some possibilities for that first line center --- and so it's why I am keenly interested in seeing what the Rangers do.

 

[Edge]

You make it sound so easy. "Let's go out there and draft high-end forwards." If it were that simple, 30 teams would also be doing it. I get the whole take one huge step back to take three steps forward. This, however, is not a small-market team. There are business demands for Dolan. He might be up for a rebuild, but if you think he's going to let this fester for more than a couple of years, dream on. You're going to need warm bodies in the meantime.

I would say that you're right in the sense that it's not easy. There are no guarantees and its not going to be a walk in the park.

But I also think we're past the point of any path being easy.

While I think Dolan wants his $$$, I don't think the Rangers are one of those teams that still won't be very profitable even if they suck. So while we're not a small market team, the upside is also that this isn't a team that's going to be operating in the red until they become a contender either. I think we also have the benefit that, for the most part, Dolan let's his hockey people do their thing.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Personally, I think the Rangers have picked well. It goes back to that whole conversation of not really seeing who we passed on that was obvious.

I get that people want that first line center, I very much do as well, but if that player isn't there when we pick, I don't think our desire changes that reality.

I think this draft has some possibilities for that first line center --- and so it's why I am keenly interested in seeing what the Rangers do.

Unless they opt for Byram, the Rangers are almost certainly going to end up with a potential first liner at a minimum in the upcoming first round.

 

[will1066]

They’re going to have an opportunity to add another in the upcoming draft, and they’ve already potentially have four that I listed. I’m not sure what I sketched out is so difficult.

If there is an oppty, sure, take it. I'm of the mind that nothing is a shoe-in, however.