Post-Game Talk: #28 - 12/02/18 | jets @ RANGERS | 6:00 - MSG

[TheTakedown]

I dont get why Henrik doesnt want to leave. He is still playing at a level where he can win a Cup with a contender.

You saw a Cup contender dominate this pee wee team tonight.

My thought is that he thinks this team can at least stay in it, and with FA augmentation this coming offseason AND a high pick, they'll turn it around and be a playoff contender again.

If that's the plan, Rangers need to start identifying cap-strapped teams and start sending win-now players for prospects ASAP. Picks aren't going to do it, but it depends on what teams are willing to part with. Prospects that haven't solidified their spots on their respective teams after their D+2~ seasons (Sprong comes to mind) are players that the Rangers should be targeting. DeAngelo is EXACTLY that kind of player, the Rangers did the right thing by identifying his talent level, and he's starting to blossom at the age of 23.

I want to keep Hayes, but I want to get a return on him as an asset FIRST before signing him to a $6M * 6Y extension--it'll help the short term sting of the extension and give us some future pieces to work with.

Smith needs to be sent down or traded at 50% retention--he's just straight up bad

Claesson is a nice player for a #5-6 Dman

Staal has actually looked OK as a #4-5 Dman

This team is not in a bad spot--I do fully believe next year we'll see some consistent offense, but for now, we're going to see a lot more of these games where they stay in it but ultimately they will not have enough firepower to win.

 

[will1066]

I mean Chytil was hot for a bit, so having Lias as a foil, even if it only existed in the minds of our fans, made his hot streak so much spicier.

You have to remember that message boards are sort of like an onion, many layers of interweaving narratives that drive eachother.

I assume Bees have similar yet pheromone based discussions.

"This beehive needs a complete teardown because it's not producing the honey we like."

"I say let's stop making our current honey this year and wait for next year, when conditions will let us make the new and better kind of honey."

"What are you two talking about?"

"Sorry, my Queen! Dude, shut up, you're gonna get us in trouble!"

 

[Ghost of jas]

Laine reminds me a lot of Brett Hull. Awesome player, even if one dimensional.

That’s a great comparison.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

"This beehive needs a complete teardown because it's not producing the honey we like."

"I say let's stop making our current honey this year and wait for next year, when conditions will let us make the new and better kind of honey."

"What are you two talking about?"

"Sorry, my Queen! Dude, shut up, you're gonna get us in trouble!"

-HiveDrone 2287n likes this

 

[ps241]

Even then it was a couple seasons before Scheifele was a ppg center.

In Mark's draft + 5 season Jets then #1 center Little broke his neck in game 57 and Scheifele stepped into that role and became a PPG player from that point forward. It took years and a lot of beatings on HFBoards about how stupid the upstart Jets were to go off the board and reach for Schiefele at 7th overall in their first draft.

 

[Ghost of jas]

He has maybe the best release we've ever seen, but really, what other above average skill does he have?

He's a really odd player.

Agreed.

Just to jump to what you brought up last night, and I’ve been saying for awhile, this team doesn’t need to get a McDavid/Matthews, (not that I’d turn them down). They just need their version of Schiefele. But, I want to discuss something else related to that idea. Zibanejad is now on pace for 73 points. He doesn’t get to play with anyone as good as Wheeler, and now he’s also got Connor. I’m of the opinion that if you gave Zibanejad similar wingers, (and Kreider should be one of them), based on what I’ve seen this year, I don’t think it’s out of the question that he could reach the 80 point level. He took a leap in development last year, and he’s gone to another level this year. I think, based on his talent, he could have one more level of growth, or at least in production by putting him with better offensive players than who he currently has on his line.

 

[Ghost of jas]

In Mark's draft + 5 season Jets then #1 center Little broke his neck in game 57 and Scheifele stepped into that role and became a PPG player from that point forward. It took years and a lot of beatings on HFBoards about how stupid the upstart Jets were to go off the board and reach for Schiefele at 7th overall in their first draft.

As a Ranger fan, I was both pissed and jealous you guys took him. The HF board consensus is usually very inaccurate.

 

[Leonardo87]

So the bye week could not have come at a better time. I need a break from this team, and think this team needs a break from themselves also. That was a bad loss last night, and I've said good teams find a way to win, but then bad or mediocre teams will find a way to lose even when they have a 3-0 lead heading into the 3rd period. Sorry, very disgusted with that game last night. Even with Mika having an excellent game, which was happy for him, it kinda went out the window.

Like someone said before, when Marc Staal has been one of your few steady D's and far from the worst, that is a major concern.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Apparently Leivo on the market to make room for nylander

 

[True Blue]

That’s a great comparison.

Sign me up right now to have such a complimentary player

 

[Larrybiv]

Petterson/Andersson draft wasn't last year, it was 2017. We acquired the 7th pick we used on Andersson from Arizona in the Stepan trade. We lost in the second round of the playoffs that season, our finish had nothing to do with it.

omg, don't pay attention to me......I must be on drugs. what was i thinking? okay 2017 was obviously a bad draft year, and yeah, LIAS was what they deemed best. okay, let me see if can recoup my original thoughts...….sorry all.

 

[Machinehead]

Agreed.

Just to jump to what you brought up last night, and I’ve been saying for awhile, this team doesn’t need to get a McDavid/Matthews, (not that I’d turn them down). They just need their version of Schiefele. But, I want to discuss something else related to that idea. Zibanejad is now on pace for 73 points. He doesn’t get to play with anyone as good as Wheeler, and now he’s also got Connor. I’m of the opinion that if you gave Zibanejad similar wingers, (and Kreider should be one of them), based on what I’ve seen this year, I don’t think it’s out of the question that he could reach the 80 point level. He took a leap in development last year, and he’s gone to another level this year. I think, based on his talent, he could have one more level of growth, or at least in production by putting him with better offensive players than who he currently has on his line.

It might end up being Zibanejad if we can find a very good 2C as a compliment.

As I've said before, I think the forward group could be done quicker than anticipated.

The defense is quite simply not an NHL defense.

But we have prospects there and oddly enough I wouldn't be going out of my way to draft defensemen unless it was the clear pick.

We're going to end up playing the waiting game, and hoping we hit on two of Miller/Keane/Lundkvist/Lindgren.

In the meantime, I would continue stocking up on centers and wingers, because 1) you can always use another top center under the premise that Zibanejad will be one 2) we need one or two more options at wing to play with Zibanejad 3) forwards come along quicker

I'm concerned about how quickly they come along because I think 2022 is the year the switch flips (hopefully). Kreider and Zibanejad will still be in their prime and we'll have 3 of a top 4 on defense.

If we've gone past 2022, then I think we're looking at a project that doesn't Kreider or Zibanejad at the center of it.

 

[Machinehead]

Sign me up right now to have such a complimentary player

Sign me up too, but it's not getting us anywhere until we continue to work on our core.

 

[DanielBrassard]

It might end up being Zibanejad if we can find a very good 2C as a compliment.

As I've said before, I think the forward group could be done quicker than anticipated.

The defense is quite simply not an NHL defense.

But we have prospects there and oddly enough I wouldn't be going out of my way to draft defensemen unless it was the clear pick.

We're going to end up playing the waiting game, and hoping we hit on two of Miller/Keane/Lundkvist/Lindgren.

In the meantime, I would continue stocking up on centers and wingers, because 1) you can always use another top center under the premise that Zibanejad will be one 2) we need one or two more options at wing to play with Zibanejad 3) forwards come along quicker

I'm concerned about how quickly they come along because I think 2022 is the year the switch flips (hopefully). Kreider and Zibanejad will still be in their prime and we'll have 3 of a top 4 on defense.

If we've gone past 2022, then I think we're looking at a project that doesn't Kreider or Zibanejad at the center of it.

Zibanejad won't even be under contract by 2022-23. If that's when the switch flips, yikes.

 

[Machinehead]

Zibanejad won't even be under contract by 2022-23. If that's when the switch flips, yikes.

I don't see how our defense is functional any sooner than that unfortunately.

But we'll have cap space at the time, and in this hypothetical scenario, Zibanejad is a legit 1C. You keep your legit 1C.

 

[Larrybiv]

time for my rant.

the talent void between the real loaded teams and us is striking.

we have the better goalie most nights and thats keeping us in games.

the defense we bring every night has marc staal as one of our most consistent and steady guys. nuf said. the smiths and shatty's and brady skjeis are dragging this team into mediocrity or worse.

we have one 2nd line and two 3rd lines and a nifty fifth line most nights. the defense is made up of 6 guys who shouldn't ever see first line assignments ever.

the winning streak was fun for sure but now the reality is that we suck again.

im still not sold on the trade hayes at all cost thing and probably wont be because im not so in love with our ability to draft impact players no matter what position we have come draft day. adding byrum does nothing to replace losing kevin hayes.

i agree this is a deep centerman draft, but are there any difference makers and when will they make that difference ? cozens, lavoie, dach, krebs and turcotte all nice prospects but will they ever be as good a KH ?

wouldn't i rather have podkolzin and hayes or byrum and hayes ? yep.

this team needs more talent. but subtracting hayes- and his substantial talent from this talent pool and adding maybes and hope so's doesnt make me all tingly like it does most of your here. this rebuild thing could take 3-5 yrs and thats along time imo. seems unlikely.

lastly, i am not of the mind that we are "stacked" at center. chytl looks fine on the edge- who knows where he ends up. mika is playing like a 1/2C which is good. hayes is a perfect 2. after that howden might be a 2 who knows. andersson doesnt seem to have the overall speed to be more than a 2/3 maybe im wrong.

drafting a 1C is difficult. drafting another or more 2's seems more likely. so moving hayes for the chance to develop or draft another 2 down the road seems to me to be lateral. and thats a big maybe with no guarantees and thats my problem.

agree about the "tradeoff" in a trade with kevin…..2 things though, shouldn't we get a prospect as well? and maybe, just maybe he comes back next year. lets just see how swift gorton could be. oh and btw, I don't trust our braintrust either......again, that Lindblom pick. uggh

 

[Ghost of jas]

It might end up being Zibanejad if we can find a very good 2C as a compliment.

As I've said before, I think the forward group could be done quicker than anticipated.

The defense is quite simply not an NHL defense.

But we have prospects there and oddly enough I wouldn't be going out of my way to draft defensemen unless it was the clear pick.

We're going to end up playing the waiting game, and hoping we hit on two of Miller/Keane/Lundkvist/Lindgren.

In the meantime, I would continue stocking up on centers and wingers, because 1) you can always use another top center under the premise that Zibanejad will be one 2) we need one or two more options at wing to play with Zibanejad 3) forwards come along quicker

I'm concerned about how quickly they come along because I think 2022 is the year the switch flips (hopefully). Kreider and Zibanejad will still be in their prime and we'll have 3 of a top 4 on defense.

If we've gone past 2022, then I think we're looking at a project that doesn't Kreider or Zibanejad at the center of it.

I would take another Zibanejad-level center in a heartbeat, especially when both centers are going to Kreider, Chytil and Kravtsov to complement them.

Ideally, the Rangers end up with three first round picks in the upcoming draft. If Gorton could end up with a similar first round to last year, and they can end up with a top line center, a high end winger and the right-handed equivalent to Miller, then this rebuild IMO is not that far away from being done with the ‘stockpiling asset’ phase of the rebuild.

As for the defense, one more top end D prospect like Miller gives the Rangers a fairly full stable of defensive prospects. Then it’s all about development.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Sign me up right now to have such a complimentary player

That’s how good the Winnipeg top six is.

 

[Ghost of jas]

agree about the "tradeoff" in a trade with kevin…..2 things though, shouldn't we get a prospect as well? and maybe, just maybe he comes back next year. lets just see how swift gorton could be. oh and btw, I don't trust our braintrust either......again, that Lindblom pick. uggh

Why should the Lindbolm pick offset the picks of Kravtsov, Miller, Lundkvist and Keane? I don’t like taking a goalie before the fourth round, so I hate the concept of what the Rangers did. But, as for the player himself, if they view him as the goalie with the highest upside, then it fits in the approach they’ve taken in the past two drafts.

 

[Machinehead]

I would take another Zibanejad-level center in a heartbeat, especially when both centers are going to Kreider, Chytil and Kravtsov to complement them.

Ideally, the Rangers end up with three first round picks in the upcoming draft. If Gorton could end up with a similar first round to last year, and they can end up with a top line center, a high end winger and the right-handed equivalent to Miller, then this rebuild IMO is not that far away from being done with the ‘stockpiling asset’ phase of the rebuild.

As for the defense, one more top end D prospect like Miller gives the Rangers a fairly full stable of defensive prospects. Then it’s all about development.

And then we wait and adjust.

Good news is, we're potentially one good draft away from just waiting and adjusting.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

Laine reminds me a lot of Brett Hull. Awesome player, even if one dimensional.

Yeah, people compare him to Ovechkin but I definitely think he's most similar to later career Brett Hull than anyone else. There's actually very few similarities to Ovechkin aside from being lethal on the PP. Ovechkin is such an overwhelming player who drives play consistently.

Not particularly good at anything other than shooting but it is an otherworldly shot that can score from literally anywhere.

 

[Ghost of jas]

And then we wait and adjust.

Good news is, we're potentially one good draft away from just waiting and adjusting.

Yup. And not get too ahead of where some of these players are in their development. I want to be able to push players down in the lineup because of talent accumulation. I’d rather not go through what we’re seeing is happening to Brady Skjei.

 

[Machinehead]

I would try to get two more fists, and I would also continue to focus on close-to-ready prospects and young NHL players with another step to take. ADA and Zibanejad have been great adds.

What else can we move? I think Skjei is what he is. A lot of teams would have use for Shattenkirk.

After that, I think we've run out of worthwhile pieces to move.

 

[True Blue]

Sign me up too, but it's not getting us anywhere until we continue to work on our core.

The core is in the process of changing. It will take some time. Trust the process.

A lot of teams would have use for Shattenkirk.

Think that it would take a lot of salary retention for not a big return. Just do not see him having that much value. Which does not mean that I would not welcome him being moved.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I don't see how our defense is functional any sooner than that unfortunately.

But we'll have cap space at the time, and in this hypothetical scenario, Zibanejad is a legit 1C. You keep your legit 1C.

I would hope there would be other avenues to fix the defense before then. Staal/Smith/Shattenkirk all expiring in 2020-21, should have added a ton of assets by then. Should have a ton of cap room. I would hope it doesn't take that long.