Rumor: 23-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Part Trois: The Road to the Deadline

[NateTheGreat]

The people who predicted that Dallas would be fine despite their cores age are also the ones who predicted New Jersey was the best team in the league and Boston wasn’t a top team anymore. For every correct prediction there are also misses, they just don’t talk about those

For all the talk about Mikko, I do think he’s played better the last couple weeks. Literally all we’re asking him to do is skate more and it’s fair thing to ask given the contract he’s going to demand.

A lot of Mikko’s points this year have been created by Mackinnon giving maximum effort, without Mack doing that, Rantanen’s points go away. Take for example the pass to spring Mack on a 2-1 against the Leafs, that play doesn’t result in a goal if it’s Mack passing that Mikko. Another one is the between the legs pass to Mack in the slot against the Red Wings, Mack created that tiny amount of space to get open to make it possible, if it’s the other way around there’s no chance Rantanen hustles to create the space to make that play.

 

[henchman21]

The people who predicted that Dallas would be fine despite their cores age are also the ones who predicted New Jersey was the best team in the league and Boston wasn’t a top team anymore. For every correct prediction there are also misses, they just don’t talk about those

For all the talk about Mikko, I do think he’s played better the last couple weeks. Literally all we’re asking him to do is skate more and it’s fair thing to ask given the contract he’s going to demand.

A lot of Mikko’s points this year have been created by Mackinnon giving maximum effort, without Mack doing that, Rantanen’s points go away. Take for example the pass to spring Mack on a 2-1 against the Leafs, that play doesn’t result in a goal if it’s Mack passing that Mikko. Another one is the between the legs pass to Mack in the slot against the Red Wings, Mack created that tiny amount of space to get open to make it possible, if it’s the other way around there’s no chance Rantanen hustles to create the space to make that play.

I'll gladly talk about both... New Jersey is growing pains of losing two defensemen, injuries, and just utter terrible goaltending that they failed to solve. Fitzy should be taking a ton of heat for wasting a prime contention year and sitting on his ass to the point where the playoffs are real question. With Boston... get back to me if they make a playoff run. That is a team that looks every bit of a 1st round exit. When they have to face Toronto in the 1st round, I'd be shocked if they weren't boat raced out. They are a complete paper tiger.

 

[LOFIN]

I'll gladly talk about both... New Jersey is growing pains of losing two defensemen, injuries, and just utter terrible goaltending that they failed to solve. Fitzy should be taking a ton of heat for wasting a prime contention year and sitting on his ass to the point where the playoffs are real question.

And the fact that Lindy Ruff sucks as a coach, and Andrew Brunette was the reason for their success.

 

[Pokecheque]

And the fact that Lindy Ruff sucks as a coach, and Andrew Brunette was the reason for their success.

That's not true.

 

[NateTheGreat]

I'll gladly talk about both... New Jersey is growing pains of losing two defensemen, injuries, and just utter terrible goaltending that they failed to solve. Fitzy should be taking a ton of heat for wasting a prime contention year and sitting on his ass to the point where the playoffs are real question. With Boston... get back to me if they make a playoff run. That is a team that looks every bit of a 1st round exit. When they have to face Toronto in the 1st round, I'd be shocked if they weren't boat raced out. They are a complete paper tiger.

Sounds a lot like the Avs reasons for losing to Seattle last year but no one gave them a pass.

I don’t care enough to do this. I could say the same if Dallas gets bounced round one. There’s also LA that’s been disappointing that a lot of people said had the best center depth in the league. Dubois changed those opinions real quick.

My point is that predictions are just that, predictions. People will talk about the ones they got right instead of the ones they get wrong. You even see people deleting stuff on Twitter lmao. No one will be correct all the time, hockey is a sport that has a lot variance, trying to predict what happens on a year to year basis is very difficult.

All I know is the Avs should be going for it this year without worrying about them being competitive in 5 years. For all we know they draft like the Jets and Stars in the next 3 years and they’re right back in the cup contention tier.

 

[AvsWraith]

I want Brock Nelson.

Good size, good playoff numbers, always seems to be in the right place to score.

 

[BobRossColton]

Besides EJ, what would a one stop shop be from Buffalo?

Mittelstadt
UPL
Jokiharju?

 

[nammerus]

Kings, Caps, Penguins, Hawks all said the same with their cores. And really the 10th best team isn't a contender. If you're okay with not being a contender an just being a playoff team that is there most years and wins a round every few... then yeah, I'd expect that core to do that through 33-34. To be a legit contender... once Rants re-signs, it is pretty much over. It might be over today with the lack of depth really showing through, but that Rants contract is likely eat up the last bit. Then once regression hits (and it will), it only gets worse from there.

This team is just scraping by as top ten team right now. And that’s with Mack and Makar at their peak, and a relatively healthy season. Combine that with one of the worst prospect pools in the league and likely the worst amateur scouting group in the league, you got yourself a recipe for prolonged mediocrity after the next 1-2 years.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The people who predicted that Dallas would be fine despite their cores age are also the ones who predicted New Jersey was the best team in the league and Boston wasn’t a top team anymore. For every correct prediction there are also misses, they just don’t talk about those

New Jersey is a very good team and would very likely be a Top 5 team with average goaltending.

Instead they have the 2nd worst sv% in the league(Only Ottawa is worse), and the very worst high danger sv% in the league.

For reference, we absolutely hate our goaltending this year. They're giving up seemingly a soft goal every game. Yet by comparison our goalies have an 80.2% saving rate on high danger chances, and an 89.25% rate overall. New Jersey is all the way down at just 76.25% for high danger save rate and 88.36% overall.

I'm also fairly certain those of us that suggested New Jersey was the best team in the league, did so under the assumption/Premise they would make the necessary move to solidify the goaltending.


As for Dallas, they're a contender. They're ahead of us in the standings. I dont really see how you're proving us wrong here...


Boston is the team that is defying logical deduction. On paper they really aren't very good. But they're clearly quite well coached and guys are buying into the systems theyre employing. I would still say they're not legit contenders right now unless they grab a good center.

 

[chet1926]

Besides EJ, what would a one stop shop be from Buffalo?

Mittelstadt
UPL
Jokiharju?

I mean Mitts and EJ would probably be it. Something around Byram and RyJo to make salaries work.

 

[JH21]

I’m starting to wonder if you actually watch Avs or Sabres games.

I am starting to wonder if you are a Sabres fan if you keep making these rediculous proposals

 

[Chiarelli]

I want Brock Nelson.

Good size, good playoff numbers, always seems to be in the right place to score.

Nelson seems like the only in season move that could be plausible and worth it.

Mittlestadt/Zegras maybe but that seems like an offseason move.

Anyone else is not worth the assets or not available imo.

 

[henchman21]

Sounds a lot like the Avs reasons for losing to Seattle last year but no one gave them a pass.

I don’t care enough to do this. I could say the same if Dallas gets bounced round one. There’s also LA that’s been disappointing that a lot of people said had the best center depth in the league. Dubois changed those opinions real quick.

My point is that predictions are just that, predictions. People will talk about the ones they got right instead of the ones they get wrong. You even see people deleting stuff on Twitter lmao. No one will be correct all the time, hockey is a sport that has a lot variance, trying to predict what happens on a year to year basis is very difficult.

All I know is the Avs should be going for it this year without worrying about them being competitive in 5 years. For all we know they draft like the Jets and Stars in the next 3 years and they’re right back in the cup contention tier.

I literally say in there Fitzy should be feeling a lot of heat. His path this year is the same sort of 'let's try next year' BS that should not be acceptable. They have failed this year in what should be a prime contention year. The biggest reason is a very solvable issue. Just like the Avs and 2C, the Devils and 1G was a risk they took... and they have not paid the price to just fix it.

I personally talk quite frequently about what I get wrong and why I think I was wrong. Sometimes because people bring it up, but most times because I'm trying to learn why I was wrong. There is a lot of good and different perspective here. Predictions are predictions, evaluations are just evaluations... but you can get better at them if you try to understand what went wrong and what went right. Then try to correct for that. Nobody is ever perfect, but you can improve.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Nelson seems like the only in season move that could be plausible and worth it.

Mittlestadt/Zegras maybe but that seems like an offseason move.

Anyone else is not worth the time or not available imo.

Nelson is also the only one with playoff experience of the legitimate 2Cs discussed.

That doesnt mean those without playoff experience would do poorly. But some really struggle at first. Its a mixed bag.

 

[the_fan]

Is it March 8 yet?

 

[henchman21]

This team is just just scraping by as top ten team right now. And that’s with Mack and Makar at their peak, and a relatively healthy season. Combine that with one of the worst prospect pools in the league and likely the worst amateur scouting group in the league, you got yourself a recipe for prolonged mediocrity after the next 1-2 years.

More or less I'm giving the benefit of doubt to avoid that debate of where the team is today. Odds are when MacK is 33... this team is much like his BFF's team has been for a few now.

 

[Alienblood]

This team is just just scraping by as top ten team right now. And that’s with Mack and Makar at their peak, and a relatively healthy season. Combine that with one of the worst prospect pools in the league and likely the worst amateur scouting group in the league, you got yourself a recipe for prolonged mediocrity after the next 1-2 years.

It's Florids and Edmonton in the finals , I don't know why any others are even wasting assets

 

[nammerus]

It's Florids and Edmonton in the finals , I don't know why any others are even wasting assets

As currently constructed, at least you have the Avs not making the finals. So you got at least one part right.

 

[henchman21]

And the fact that Lindy Ruff sucks as a coach, and Andrew Brunette was the reason for their success.

I don't know about either of those (though Bruno is showing that is a possibility)... but a new voice is probably there by December and it will be justified.

 

[BaconNater]

Henchy is quite easy to figure out when it comes to players and team evaluations. It seems to follow this path

Team is well liked = team stinks
Team is hated = team good
Player is highly hyped on HF = player stinks
Player is unknown = player good
Player on Avs =player bad
Player on any other team = player good

 

[Foppa2118]

Sounds a lot like the Avs reasons for losing to Seattle last year but no one gave them a pass.

I don’t care enough to do this. I could say the same if Dallas gets bounced round one. There’s also LA that’s been disappointing that a lot of people said had the best center depth in the league. Dubois changed those opinions real quick.

My point is that predictions are just that, predictions. People will talk about the ones they got right instead of the ones they get wrong. You even see people deleting stuff on Twitter lmao. No one will be correct all the time, hockey is a sport that has a lot variance, trying to predict what happens on a year to year basis is very difficult.

All I know is the Avs should be going for it this year without worrying about them being competitive in 5 years. For all we know they draft like the Jets and Stars in the next 3 years and they’re right back in the cup contention tier.

This place can be so gaslighting, so thank you for acknowledging this.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Sounds a lot like the Avs reasons for losing to Seattle last year but no one gave them a pass.

I don’t care enough to do this. I could say the same if Dallas gets bounced round one. There’s also LA that’s been disappointing that a lot of people said had the best center depth in the league. Dubois changed those opinions real quick.

My point is that predictions are just that, predictions. People will talk about the ones they got right instead of the ones they get wrong. You even see people deleting stuff on Twitter lmao. No one will be correct all the time, hockey is a sport that has a lot variance, trying to predict what happens on a year to year basis is very difficult.

All I know is the Avs should be going for it this year without worrying about them being competitive in 5 years. For all we know they draft like the Jets and Stars in the next 3 years and they’re right back in the cup contention tier.

I mean that would be more like 18-19 Avs missing the playoffs. The devils missing the playoffs would be unacceptable, but I mean it’s a bit different of a situation when ones a defending cup champ and one’s in the 2nd year of their contention window.

Now if the Devils don’t add a goalie and miss the playoffs Fitzgerald will rightfully face a lot of heat. They have a clear hole with plenty of options available to improve it and they have a ton of assets to fill said hole.

 

[MacKaRant]

Player is highly hyped on HF = player stinks

Isn't this a universal rule and not just a Henchy rule?

I remember the mini-meltdown this board had when we traded "can't miss prospect" Nigel Williams for Brian Fahey.

 

[S E P H]

The Devils need to fix their goaltending and get better defensive depth, but Hughes being in and out of the lineup for long periods, Meier obviously playing injured, and Hamilton injured for like 3/4 of the season is a killer for all teams. It is even worse for teams exiting a rebuild and don't have a lot of depth atm. If the Oilers' equivalent of the Devils injuries were to their players, they'd be where the Sabres are right now.

 

[ABasin]

Kings, Caps, Penguins, Hawks all said the same with their cores. And really the 10th best team isn't a contender. If you're okay with not being a contender an just being a playoff team that is there most years and wins a round every few... then yeah, I'd expect that core to do that through 33-34. To be a legit contender... once Rants re-signs, it is pretty much over. It might be over today with the lack of depth really showing through, but that Rants contract is likely eat up the last bit. Then once regression hits (and it will), it only gets worse from there.

Appreciate your well thought out posts today in this thread. Good reads.

I do wonder though, if Avs management has a "just get into the playoffs, anything can happen" mentality.

I mean, every year, almost every team has some roster weakness. Or two. It's pretty hard to go into the playoffs looking like the 2022 version of the Avs. For any team. And so much playoff success depends on unforeseen events, such as injuries, star players (at any position) going cold, 3rd string goaltenders coming out of nowhere to play Vezina-type playoff goaltending, etc. And then just the brutal two month grind of the whole thing.

I totally get the 'all-in' points of view that you, Pierce, RIAL and some others have put forth in this regard. I'm just not sure Avs management sees it quite that way.

A lot of people are putting the onus on MacFarland not being capable of going all in for one more cup - he just doesn't have what it takes. But is that really it? Or is he entirely capable of doing such a thing, but they simply don't believe in doing it? "We have several superstar players, let's tweak the supporting cast here and there, get into the playoffs, because anything can happen."