Rumor: 23-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Part Trois: The Road to the Deadline

[Pierce Hawthorne]

We might be underrating how costly and difficult it will be to dump RyJo. What a colossal mistake it was to acquire him and hitch a cup contending to year to his play at 2C.

It should pretty clearly be a 2nd round pick. Not more, but pretty unlikely to be less as well.

 

[ANewHope]

He's not ideal but I do think he's underrated on this board. If we get him along with all the other missing pieces (goalie, RD, 4C) I won't be mad. Especially if we dump RyJo and keep Ritchie in the process.

Depth is just underrated on this board. It was the same last year. Nobody wants the unexciting names but like we saw last year vs Seattle they’d all be huge upgrades.

Obviously a legitimate 2C is the goal and gives this team the best chance. It’ll be disappointing if C-Mac can’t get that done. Doesn’t mean you should wave the white flag and give up if you can’t get it. Still give the team a shot. Add depth without giving up Richie. Henrique is a nice add as long as more comes with it.

Another deadline like last year would be beyond brutal.

 

[Bender]

It should pretty clearly be a 2nd round pick. Not more, but pretty unlikely to be less as well.

I'm not even sure if it would cost that much, to be honest.

Vancouver traded Beauvillier to Chicago and he was also underperforming with 8 points in 22 games and actually got a conditional 5th round pick out of it. Now he doesn't have an extra year like RyJo but is making $4M+ and Chicago is completely devoid of talent and unless they are planning on overpaying vets to go there again this off-season, I could really see them being interested. I don't think they'd give up much if anything to get him but I believe the Avs could send him there - if they wanted to.

I don't think the Avs are ready to dump him outright, I think they might entertain it IF they are going to be making deals and need to use his cap space to do it. Otherwise, I think they hang on to him for better or for worse.

 

[NateTheGreat]

It should pretty clearly be a 2nd round pick. Not more, but pretty unlikely to be less as well.

That’s a 2nd the Avs can’t afford to throw away on top of the fact that our top guys are having to play extra minutes because RyJo can’t breathe 15 seconds into a shift. Just a disaster of an acquisition quite frankly.

 

[the_fan]

I have a feeling we’re gonna be very disappointed when trade deadline comes and goes. There are just not many good options out there to fix the 2C. Best thing this team could have done is find a way to keep Kadri

 

[Ararana]

Best thing this team could have done is find a way to keep Kadri

EJ didn't want to go to Anaheim and, evidently, he was the only one cMac was allowed to trade

 

[Grigowski]

If CMac made that trade I'd have to stop being an Avs fan until he was fired.

If he does this, i take the next plane and bring my fork with me.....

Jesus, what are these guys at sportsnet smoking....?

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Holy crap that Sportsnet trade is terrible for the Avs.

 

[Foppa2118]

I really don't know why some of you seem to choose to believe that Sakic was in charge before and CMac was in the Ball arena basement crunching numbers and not involved in any of the decisions when that's been clearly proven false (Duchene trade) and now he's 100% in charge and Joe Sakic is on an island on a permanent vacation in Jamaica or something?

They are BOTH at the helm and they are both making the call on the TDL - just like last year.

That's how much HF needs a scapegoat to function.

We need to willfully ignore that CMac had his fingerprints all over the roster that won the Cup, and that Sakic said nothing will change with their decision making process with CMac as GM, except that he'll handle the day to day duties, and be the guy on the phone more often.

But you know, that lengthy one year track record as GM with a decimated roster proves he sucks.

 

[SirLoinOfCloth]

That's how much HF needs a scapegoat to function.

We need to willfully ignore that CMac had his fingerprints all over the roster that won the Cup, and that Sakic said nothing will change with their decision making process with CMac as GM, except that he'll handle the day to day duties, and be the guy on the phone more often.

But you know, that lengthy one year track record as GM with a decimated roster proves he sucks.

What proves he sucks is that he hasn't done anything two weeks before the deadline.

 

[Mighty Makar]

Did we trade for Jenner and Tanev, yet?

 

[Foppa2118]

What proves he sucks is that he hasn't done anything two weeks before the deadline.

Correction: CMac sucks because he didn't trade for a legit 2C five weeks before the deadline, because that's when Vancouver and Winnipeg traded for Lindholm and Monahan.

 

[sethro109]

Correction: CMac sucks because he didn't trade for a legit 2C five weeks before the deadline, because that's when Vancouver and Winnipeg traded for Lindholm and Monahan.

No, he sucks because this roster that's in the prime of its window has needed a real 2C since Kadri left, and he hasn't done shit to fix it. He was too blind to see, Compher was horrible, and it cost us last year. He has done nothing since becoming the GM to give us any hope that our biggest need will be fixed.

 

[Ararana]

My last hope here is hanging on Buffalo's AGM watching three straight Avs games when Fatty is rumored to be available. That's the only known option this deadline that doesn't end in crippling disappointment.

And even that one is assuming Mittelstadt can handle the 2C role here in Colorado, which honestly I'm a bit skeptical.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I'm not even sure if it would cost that much, to be honest.

Vancouver traded Beauvillier to Chicago and he was also underperforming with 8 points in 22 games and actually got a conditional 5th round pick out of it. Now he doesn't have an extra year like RyJo but is making $4M+ and Chicago is completely devoid of talent and unless they are planning on overpaying vets to go there again this off-season, I could really see them being interested. I don't think they'd give up much if anything to get him but I believe the Avs could send him there - if they wanted to.

I don't think the Avs are ready to dump him outright, I think they might entertain it IF they are going to be making deals and need to use his cap space to do it. Otherwise, I think they hang on to him for better or for worse.

I think it easily will. The only possible way I can see it costing less is because the flat salary cap is finally lifting a little.

Beauvillier is a pretty bad example to compare, at least IMO. He's significantly younger, and was coming off a strong end to his season with Vancouver. He wasn't being traded as a cap dump, more a reclamation project and a guy Chicago was hopeful they could flip at the deadline this year for even more value. Plus, he wasn't dealt until November 28th which was about 1.5 months into the season or ~25% of the season. So his actual cap being moved was closer to $3M. Compare that to RyJo who if he's moved at the deadline this year the real money value of his dump is $5M($1M left this year + full $4M next year).


At 30 years old and with the season RyJo is having, there's no reclamation project aspirations in any deal with him really. He's a complete cap dump. And there's a pretty well established history of cap dump values around the league and what they cost. $6M or more you're looking at a 1st round pick. ~$4-5M is a 2nd round pick. $2-3M, 3rd round pick, and so on down the line.


The only way we might get away with dumping RyJo for cheaper is if we end up moving him in the summer instead and the rising salary cap opens the door for more teams to be willing to take on cap dumps and lowering the price slightly. Either that, or we get creative with the deal essentially, and perhaps take back another bad contract for less money(Maybe get a #6D that can still be useful for us but is making like $1.5-2M instead of $1M) or we get creative and find a way to include him in a legitimate trade where we include some extra value to get rid of him.

That’s a 2nd the Avs can’t afford to throw away on top of the fact that our top guys are having to play extra minutes because RyJo can’t breathe 15 seconds into a shift. Just a disaster of an acquisition quite frankly.

Certainly disagree with that.


I dont think a 2nd round pick is going to make much of a difference at all in terms of the moves we need to make. We still have plenty of valuable assets, its just a matter of whether our GM is actually willing to part with enough of those assets to get things done.


But a 2024 1st, 2025 1st, Bo Byram/Sam Girard, Ritchie, Gulyayev, Behrens, etc. Should easily be enough ammo to get a couple of important deals done.

 

[Foppa2118]

No, he sucks because this roster that's in the prime of its window has needed a real 2C since Kadri left, and he hasn't done shit to fix it. He was too blind to see, Compher was horrible, and it cost us last year. He has done nothing since becoming the GM to give us any hope that our biggest need will be fixed.

So he sucks because after helping to build a Stanley Cup winner as AGM, in his one year as GM he didn't throw away assets for a 2C that wouldn't have helped them win with a decimated roster last year?

What has every other GM aside from Vegas accomplished in that time? Trades that make HF satisfied? How often do those trades turn into Stanley Cups?

Did Florida win last year? Has Boston won recently? Has Dallas? What has their aggressive moves accomplished?

 

[sethro109]

So he sucks because after helping to build a Stanley Cup winner as AGM, in his one year as GM he didn't throw away assets for a 2C that wouldn't have helped them win with a decimated roster last year?

What has every other GM aside from Vegas accomplished in that time? Trades that make HF satisfied? How often do those trades turn into Stanley Cups?

Our roster still had Mack, Mikko and Makar playing in the playoffs. With a real 2C they get past Seattle and if the rumors were true, Nuke would've been back for the next series. He wasted a year of competition for no reason. Even worse, he wasted a 2nd round pick on Lars f***ing Eller. That's how you can tell he's incompetent. If he truly wasn't going to spend assets because we were "decimated" with injury, why f***ing spend a 2nd?

Other GMs don't have our core, and even if they fail in the playoffs while spending, at least they f***ing went for it. He pulled off a bullshit half measure, and it not only wasted a prime competing year, it left us without a valuable asset.

 

[NateTheGreat]

Certainly disagree with that.


I dont think a 2nd round pick is going to make much of a difference at all in terms of the moves we need to make. We still have plenty of valuable assets, its just a matter of whether our GM is actually willing to part with enough of those assets to get things done.


But a 2024 1st, 2025 1st, Bo Byram/Sam Girard, Ritchie, Gulyayev, Behrens, etc. Should easily be enough ammo to get a couple of important deals done.

Throwing away a 2nd to dump a player after acquiring him for free the previous summer is poor asset management. Just because a team has other assets available to them for trade doesn’t excuse the fact that our GM has to throw one away after making a terrible trade. If he keeps RyJo past the deadline he’s doubling down on that mistake and we will have essentially wasted 4M of cap in a prime contention year.

 

[the_fan]

EJ didn't want to go to Anaheim and, evidently, he was the only one cMac was allowed to trade

I think it’s more like Avs didn’t want to give long term to Naz. The other stuff are just bunch of excuses. If they really wanted to keep him, they’d find a way

 

[Ararana]

I think it’s more like Avs didn’t want to give long term to Naz. The other stuff are just bunch of excuses. If they really wanted to keep him, they’d find a way

RAIL says differently. And I believe him.

The fact that cMac couldn't come up with an alternative way to keep Kadri if EJ didn't agree to waive his MNC is infuriating. IIRC from that summer, all they had to do was trade Girard for futures.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Throwing away a 2nd to dump a player after acquiring him for free the previous summer is poor asset management. Just because a team has other assets available to them for trade doesn’t excuse the fact that our GM has to throw one away after making a terrible trade. If he keeps RyJo past the deadline he’s doubling down on that mistake and we will have essentially wasted 4M of cap in a prime contention year.

I dont really understand what you're trying to argue here? Actually you're basically saying no matter what CMac does he loses? That's pretty dumb.


Yes, the RyJo gamble last summer did not pay off. That's unfortunate, but CMac rectifying that mistake by paying the price to get rid of RyJo and bring in a proper solution is absolutely a very good thing if he does it.

 

[Bender]

Throwing away a 2nd to dump a player after acquiring him for free the previous summer is poor asset management. Just because a team has other assets available to them for trade doesn’t excuse the fact that our GM has to throw one away after making a terrible trade. If he keeps RyJo past the deadline he’s doubling down on that mistake and we will have essentially wasted 4M of cap in a prime contention year.

At the same time, if he did nothing people would dump all over him just the same.

They took a shot and it didn't work but they didn't pay anything to acquire him. I really think CMakic get dumped on unfairly here because people are basically saying 'they should have been able to foresee that he couldn't skate anymore after a significant injury'.

They gambled and lost but every year there are GMs who gamble and lose while also spending significant assets to try and get better.

The Avs didn't do that so if they have to spend a 2nd to move him out, so be it but I think people should cut them a break.

They are one of the very few teams in the league that don't have a terrible long-term contract that they've had to dump on Arizona or another team and had to package assets to get rid of.

Some people want perfection even when they are getting well above average.

 

[Mighty Makar]

RAIL says differently. And I believe him.

The fact that cMac couldn't come up with an alternative way to keep Kadri if EJ didn't agree to waive his MNC is infuriating. IIRC from that summer, all they had to do was trade Girard for futures.

You been hanging out with Ruzicka?

 

[NateTheGreat]

I dont really understand what you're trying to argue here? Actually you're basically saying no matter what CMac does he loses? That's pretty dumb.


Yes, the RyJo gamble last summer did not pay off. That's unfortunate, but CMac rectifying that mistake by paying the price to get rid of RyJo and bring in a proper solution is absolutely a very good thing if he does it.

You misunderstood. I’m not saying dumping RyJo is a terrible trade, the initial trade to acquire him was terrible. I’m saying it’s not an excuse that they have other assets.

Now not only does he have to dump RyJo and pay to do so, but we are still at square one in rectifying the hole at 2C. The RyJo trade actually compounded the problem.

 

[NateTheGreat]

At the same time, if he did nothing people would dump all over him just the same.

They took a shot and it didn't work but they didn't pay anything to acquire him. I really think CMakic get dumped on unfairly here because people are basically saying 'they should have been able to foresee that he couldn't skate anymore after a significant injury'.

They gambled and lost but every year there are GMs who gamble and lose while also spending significant assets to try and get better.

The Avs didn't do that so if they have to spend a 2nd to move him out, so be it but I think people should cut them a break.

They are one of the very few teams in the league that don't have a terrible long-term contract that they've had to dump on Arizona or another team and had to package assets to get rid of.

Some people want perfection even when they are getting well above average.

This is the crux of problem with the entire CMac tenure. Acquiring RyJo or doing nothing were not his only options in the summer. He choose to go the RyJo route because it costs them nothing to acquire him as opposed to paying premium assets for a better solution. Of course there’s no guarantee that would’ve worked either but you can respect the aggressiveness instead of going the cheap route which they have done every single year except the cup run.