Rumor: 23-24 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Part Trois: The Road to the Deadline

[Foppa2118]

100% this is what CMac's critics would rightfully be saying right now if he didn't trade for Eller last year. Everyone knows it too.

"He didn't even trade for Lars Eller!! All it cost was a 2nd round pick!"

 

[Mighty Makar]

If Seattle starts struggling and is going to miss the playoffs, what are the chances they trade Gourde? I want him. I love the way that lil f***er plays.

 

[the_fan]

What a dome!

 

[Foppa2118]

Compher is a playoffs ghost. Compher at 2C never worked. Last year everyone saw that failure with him at 2C coming. They absolutely need someone better there. Colton is a 3C, making 3C money. If he's our 2C this year, we will fail again.

The value of a 2C seems to be very underrated around here. It's the 3rd most important position on a team. 1C, 1D then 2C. Without a competent 2C the Avs won't win another cup. No winger, or combination of wingers will make up for a 2C.

Paying for retention on Eller was also one of the most idiotic moves anyone could have done. He did nothing with that saved cap space. He's completely incompetent as a GM.

Everyone thinks 2C is important. Just some don't place as much importance in trading key assets for the best 2C's available, when the Avs have an elite D core, an elite 1st line, an elite 3rd line, and two elite 2nd line wingers to surround the 2C.

Vegas won with a 65 point 2C in Chandler Stephenson, and they don't have a MacKinnon or Makar.

Before the Knights Cup run, Compher had been significantly better in the playoffs than Stephenson. Almost 2x the points pace and almost 3x the goals pace.

Playoff Goals

Compher - 14 goals in 70 games - 0.200 goals/gm
Stephenson - 5 goals in 66 games - 0.076 goals/gm

Playoff Points

Compher - 29 points in 70 games - 0.414 pts/gm
Stephenson - 18 points in 66 games - 0.273 pts/gm

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

If Seattle starts struggling and is going to miss the playoffs, what are the chances they trade Gourde? I want him. I love the way that lil f***er plays.

Just get by Beniers, I don’t think it’s too much to ask for

 

[CobraAcesS]

100% this is what CMac's critics would rightfully be saying right now if he didn't trade for Eller last year. Everyone knows it too.

"He didn't even trade for Lars Eller!! All it cost was a 2nd round pick!"

I don't really remember Eller being someone we talked about at all. I was like, wtf is this?

 

[Foppa2118]

Its fair to criticize him for not doing "lessons learned" after Lars Eller. Lars Eller struggled a lot because he's not even a strong skater. What's at root of a lot of Johansen's struggles? Its the same issue (hes also low effort).

Its kind of strange how the pro scouts get it right a lot with practically every position but 2C. In reality, its probably more about CM when it comes to 2C.

Fair or not. Saying that CM wasted a 2nd on Eller is at the very least accurate, even if there is an element of Monday morning QB to it.

It's not just skating. Kerfoot and Compher were fast skaters, and people understandably weren't happy with them at 2C either.

Conversely, Saad wasn't a burner, but everyone agreed he fit in very well on the team.

RJ's lack of effort has been his biggest issue IMO. He skates well enough when he wants to, he just doesn't always want to.

Same with his defense. He's shown flashes of great defensive play this year, he just hasn't always put in the effort. Probably why he plays so much better in the playoffs, because that's when he wants to.

He has all the tools to be a great player except consistent effort. He's looked like a prime Forsberg or Lindros shrugging guys off with the puck at times this year, and despite his struggles, he's been pretty good at finishing his chances around the net.

I think RJ would have had a much better season this year, if he had dedicated himself to coming into camp in the best shape possible.

I think a big part of his effort and skating issues are that he's not in good enough shape for a big body, so he gets gassed and tries to conserve energy for the rest of the game, and for the playoffs.

He hasn't fit in well on the Avs at all, and has been demoted to a 3rd/4th line role, and he's still on an 18 goal pace, nearly all at 5v5. He could easily still be a 30 goal 70 point guy if he was in better shape and put in the effort.

 

[sethro109]

Everyone thinks 2C is important. Just some don't place as much importance in trading key assets for the best 2C's available, when the Avs have an elite D core, an elite 1st line, an elite 3rd line, and two elite 2nd line wingers to surround the 2C.

Vegas won with a 65 point 2C in Chandler Stephenson, and they don't have a MacKinnon or Makar.

Before the Knights Cup run, Compher had been significantly better in the playoffs than Stephenson. Almost 2x the points pace and almost 3x the goals pace.

Playoff Goals

Compher - 14 goals in 70 games - 0.200 goals/gm
Stephenson - 5 goal in 66 games - 0.076 goals/gm

Playoff Points

Compher - 29 points in 70 games - 0.414 pts/gm
Stephenson - 18 points in 66 games - 0.273 pts/gm

Telling me the knights were lucky because Stephenson stepped up to be a real 2C in the playoffs, doesn't help. They also had Karlsson (who put up 53 points that season) to fall back on as a 2C if he had issues. Stephenson played like a 2C, and they won because of it. Expecting Compher with a 0.4 PPG to be a 2C was still idiotic. They saw how bad he was in the Tampa series and should have expected the same.

Look at his last 2 year before the Seattle series, 8 points in 20 games, 2 points in 10. Those are not acceptable numbers for a 2C in the playoffs. Going with him was a death sentence, and that's exactly what happened. 2 points in 7 games, 22:38 time on ice per game, and a ton of f***ing draws in the offensive zone with Mack and Mikko as line mates. That was a catastrophic failure.

 

[the_fan]

Have we traded for Kerfoot yet?

 

[Alienblood]

So he sucks because after helping to build a Stanley Cup winner as AGM, in his one year as GM he didn't throw away assets for a 2C that wouldn't have helped them win with a decimated roster last year?

What has every other GM aside from Vegas accomplished in that time? Trades that make HF satisfied? How often do those trades turn into Stanley Cups?

Did Florida win last year? Has Boston won recently? Has Dallas? What has their aggressive moves accomplished?

My dad says this to me all the time.

 

[Foppa2118]

Here's a crazy stat for you:

	GP	G	A	P	+/-	FO%
Ryan Johansen	58	13	9	22	-7	53.6
Alex Newhook (22-23)	58	13	9	22	+3	38.9

Here's some more crazy stats from centers.

Goal Pace

Boone Jenner - 37
Brock Nelson - 35
Henrique - 24
Newhook - 22
Compher - 21
Lindholm - 21
Mittelstadt - 19
Colton - 18
Johansen - 18

 

[the_fan]

Did you guys know that Kerfoot was a Harvard grad?

 

[Foppa2118]

Telling me the knights were lucky because Stephenson stepped up to be a real 2C in the playoffs, doesn't help. They also had Karlsson (who put up 53 points that season) to fall back on as a 2C if he had issues. Stephenson played like a 2C, and they won because of it. Expecting Compher with a 0.4 PPG to be a 2C was still idiotic. They saw how bad he was in the Tampa series and should have expected the same.
View attachment 824477
Look at his last 2 year before the Seattle series, 8 points in 20 games, 2 points in 10. Those are not acceptable numbers for a 2C in the playoffs. Going with him was a death sentence, and that's exactly what happened. 2 points in 7 games, 22:38 time on ice per game, and a ton of f***ing draws in the offensive zone with Mack and Mikko as line mates. That was a catastrophic failure.

The bolded is an argument that the key to winning a Stanley Cup isn't drafting well to get MacKinnon, Mikko, Makar, and Byram, or making smart trades to get Girard, Byram's draft pick, Toews, Lehky, Manson, or Cogs, or making smart signings like Val or Helm.

It's not making smart additions in Marchessault and Karlsson, or making smart trades like Theodore, Roy or Martinez, or smart UFA signings to give you a 1D like Pietrangelo.

It's to plan on getting lucky that your 2C like Kadri or Stephenson has an outlier year, and you don't get unlucky with injuries, in order to win the Cup. Luck and outlier years aren't a strategy.

I was a big supporter of Naz when many here wanted him gone, but If it's not that one outlier year, then he's a 50-60 point center, that had some suspension problems which hurt his team in the playoffs, and Stephenson is a 65 point center who's a way bigger ghost in the playoffs than Compher.

And the Avs still could win with that 50-60 point non outlier year Kadri at 2C, just like they could have with Compher, who I wasn't a fan of at 2C either. This is my point.

 

[Muffin]

Here's a crazy stat for you:

	GP	G	A	P	+/-	FO%
Ryan Johansen	58	13	9	22	-7	53.6
Alex Newhook (22-23)	58	13	9	22	+3	38.9

We robbed Montreal blind, the fact we got Colton AND a 1st round pick.

 

[Foppa2118]

Did you guys know that Kerfoot was a Harvard grad?

If he's not from Long Beach, who gives a shit?

 

[the_fan]

If he's not from Long Beach, who gives a shit?

I do miss Nieto. We need to get the old gang back together.

Nieto
Eller
Kerfoot
Soderberg
Nemeth

 

[Alienblood]

We robbed Montreal blind, the fact we got Colton AND a 1st round pick.
View attachment 824494

ya but we took Goulash .

 

[the_fan]

All the talk in Leafs nation is how they need a RD. I still say we should trade Makar for Matthews. It totally solves both team’s problems. Avs get their 2C, Leafs get their RD

 

[dahrougem2]

I think I might take the day off of work to browse here when the TDL passes and the Avs don't really do much while Vegas adds Guentzel, Hanifin, and brings back Reilly Smith while Eichel and Stone are on LTIR until game 1 of the playoffs.

Even the Oilers intermission crew started laughing and said Vegas is going to have 9M to play with and you know Mark Stone is going to be ready for game 1. Bob Stauffer joked "I had a spleen injury when I played and I missed one shift."

Pretty clear everyone knows Vegas is going to sit him until April 19th.

 

[The Moops]

100% this is what CMac's critics would rightfully be saying right now if he didn't trade for Eller last year. Everyone knows it too.

"He didn't even trade for Lars Eller!! All it cost was a 2nd round pick!"

Nice strawman, but nobody on this board wanted Eller, and nobody in their right mind wanted to spend a 2nd round pick so that they could get him retained. Well except one single person...

 

[the_fan]

I think I might take the day off of work to browse here when the TDL passes and the Avs don't really do much while Vegas adds Guentzel, Hanifin, and brings back Reilly Smith while Eichel and Stone are on LTIR until game 1 of the playoffs.

Even the Oilers intermission crew started laughing and said Vegas is going to have 9M to play with and you know Mark Stone is going to be ready for game 1. Bob Stauffer joked "I had a spleen injury when I played and I missed one shift."

Pretty clear everyone knows Vegas is going to sit him until April 19th.

You have to take a day off from work to browse here? I browse here while at work all the time. I just can’t wait for the meltdown here when CMac trades for Kerfoot and calls it a day

 

[The Moops]

You have to take a day off from work to browse here? I browse here while at work all the time. HF is more important than any job. I just can’t wait for the meltdown here when CMac trades for Kerfoot and calls it a day

I wage theft so much time on HF boards it's wild. The admins should be getting my paycheck instead

 

[the_fan]

I wage theft so much time on HF boards it's wild. The admins should be getting my paycheck instead

I just can’t picture a job where I won’t be able to do my work and browse here.

 

[BobRossColton]

So what team has a one stop (or nearly) if Nuke just goes on ltir till playoffs?

 

[The Moops]

I just can’t wait for the meltdown here when CMac trades for Kerfoot and calls it a day

It's going to be a glorious day either way. Either we're pumped to have a solution or CMac slept through the snooze 15 times and missed the deadline. No in-between

I just can’t picture a job where I won’t be able to do my work and browse here.

I'd quit fr