OT: 2024 Washington Commanders thread: change we can believe in!

[ynotcaps]

Guilty. Dinosaur who believes that if a QB is worth picking with a top 3 pick, he needs to be ready to play. I will allow that we would be (OK, are) in a better spot than most QB-needy teams picking at the top of the draft in that we have a guy who's competent.

CHI doesn't count because there's no way they can have both Fields and a #1OA on the roster. NE is a trash fire and whoever they end up getting probably isn't going to be worth us even fighting over "see, told you he sucked" because they'd make Patrick Montana Unitas look like a loser.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Its pretty rare for a QB picked in the Top 3 to sit for a year. Rodgers, Love, others who sat fire a year or more, were drafted much further back. The last top pick I can recall sitting a whole year was Carson Palmer. Who am I missing? Also, who your current starter is has to matter there also, right? Is Sam the guy to groom the rookie? JB, someone else?

I'm not saying you have to play the guy, but it's rare. An admission that he's not ready, but super rare to make that decision on a top 2 pick. There is an implied expectation that he's ready to play, that he's instantly the best QB on the roster.

Sam is their starter. It’s not like he’s some old has been/never was that has zero ability to improve. Biggest leaps for QB’s as starters are from yr 1 to yr 2.

Sam should be kept and used. He does well, and he could be worth a lot in trade (or as the actual starter…..gasp!!)

They don’t need any vet QB’s. They got a slew of coaches to do that. “Vet leadership” comes in many forms. A 35yr old ex NFL QB is no different than a 30’s something current QB vet.

One costs against the cap and their roster totals — the other doesn’t. So seems pretty simple?

 

[kicksavedave]

Sam is their starter. It’s not like he’s some old has been/never was that has zero ability to improve. Biggest leaps for QB’s as starters are from yr 1 to yr 2.

Sam should be kept and used. He does well, and he could be worth a lot in trade (or as the actual starter…..gasp!!)

They don’t need any vet QB’s. They got a slew of coaches to do that. “Vet leadership” comes in many forms. A 35yr old ex NFL QB is no different than a 30’s something current QB vet.

One costs against the cap and their roster totals — the other doesn’t. So seems pretty simple?

They still need 3 QBs on the roster. Is the idea that they keep Sam, the rookie at 3rd string clip board holder, and what for their 2nd string? A cheap rookie or 1st/2nd year UDFA type? Or put the rookie at 2nd string and hope the cheap UDFA type never plays? If not a veteran at any of the 3 slots, then they will have a rookie, a guy with one season, and who else?

 

[Ridley Simon]

They still need 3 QBs on the roster. Is the idea that they keep Sam, the rookie at 3rd string clip board holder, and what for their 2nd string? A cheap rookie or 1st/2nd year UDFA type? Or put the rookie at 2nd string and hope the cheap UDFA type never plays? If not a veteran at any of the 3 slots, then they will have a rookie, a guy with one season, and who else?

They always have 2, and then someone on the practice squad. I assume that’s the same alignment I’d expect next season? Why carry 3 on the 53? That means one less actual useful position player.

No man. That’s not it

 

[kicksavedave]

They always have 2, and then someone on the practice squad. I assume that’s the same alignment I’d expect next season? Why carry 3 on the 53? That means one less actual useful position player.

No man. That’s not it

Ok, so 2 guys on the active roster, Sam and a rookie? I'd just be shocked if thats all they have active. I would predict it would be Sam, a vet and the rookie is inactive on game days. But hey, maybe the rookie wins the job and starts anyway.... I suck at predicting anything.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Ok, so 2 guys on the active roster, Sam and a rookie? I'd just be shocked if thats all they have active. I would predict it would be Sam, a vet and the rookie is inactive on game days. But hey, maybe the rookie wins the job and starts anyway.... I suck at predicting anything.

Honestly, and perhaps I am wrong, I thought “deactivated from game day” players had to be on the practice squad. And I also thought practice squad players can get signed away from the team, pretty easily?

So yeah, I isn’t see them wanting to carry 3QB’s on the 53, and anyone else isn’t fully protected.

Again, I may have that wrong.

Edit — so worst case they carry 3QB’s and have one less WR or OL or DB or….you get my drift.

 

[RedRocking]

Ok, so 2 guys on the active roster, Sam and a rookie? I'd just be shocked if thats all they have active. I would predict it would be Sam, a vet and the rookie is inactive on game days. But hey, maybe the rookie wins the job and starts anyway.... I suck at predicting anything.

I think the whole question about when/if to start the 2OA rookie is a “it depends” situation.

If they draft JD, are they really going to wait until he’s turning 25 to start him? This isn’t hockey/baseball. Also, JD’s game should translate more quickly to the pros. He already has clean, repeatable mechanics that helps his accuracy. They can use his running ability in a RPO-heavy scheme as he learns NFL defenses. This worked great for Jalen Hurts. Let him be a dynamic playmaker right away.

Maye OTOH is obviously younger and needs work on his mechanics. So he may benefit from time watching, while the coaches work on correcting that stuff.

However, as much as we may think it’s a good idea to be patient with these guys - the external pressures will almost certainly force either of them into early action.

 

[RedRocking]

Honestly, and perhaps I am wrong, I thought “deactivated from game day” players had to be on the practice squad. And I also thought practice squad players can get signed away from the team, pretty easily?

So yeah, I isn’t see them wanting to carry 3QB’s on the 53, and anyone else isn’t fully protected.

Again, I may have that wrong.

Edit — so worst case they carry 3QB’s and have one less WR or OL or DB or….you get my drift.

A guy can be on your 53 man roster, but not be active on game day (which is just 48 guys). They also instituted this new “emergency QB rule” after the 49ers lost their starters in that NFCCG a couple years ago. It allows you to dress 3 guys, if they are on your 53 man roster. (I’m a little confused as to how much that really affected anything).

But mostly, teams dress just 2 QBs, with the third guy inactive. IOW, the 3rd guy isn’t necessarily on the practice squad - he’s on the 53, but just inactive on game day.

Practice squad players can indeed be signed away. BUT the team has to then put them on their 53 man roster. As in hockey, there are waiver rules. Like you can’t necessarily poach AHL guys just to put them on your AHL team, you can’t steal a practice squad guy just to put them on your practice squad.

 

[Ridley Simon]

A guy can be on your 53 man roster, but not be active on game day (which is just 48 guys). They also instituted this new “emergency QB rule” after the 49ers lost their starters in that NFCCG a couple years ago. It allows you to dress 3 guys, if they are on your 53 man roster. (I’m a little confused as to how much that really affected anything).

But mostly, teams dress just 2 QBs, with the third guy inactive. IOW, the 3rd guy isn’t necessarily on the practice squad - he’s on the 53, but just inactive on game day.

Practice squad players can indeed be signed away. BUT the team has to then put them on their 53 man roster. Like in hockey, where you can’t necessarily poach AHL guys just to put them on your AHL team, you can’t steal a practice squad guy just to put them on your practice squad.

Ah. I now get it. Thanks for correcting me!

@kicksavedave — they can take your vet. However, we don’t want to waste more than 5m on him? Do we? Less??

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I think the whole question about when/if to start the 2OA rookie is a “it depends” situation.

If they draft JD, are they really going to wait until he’s turning 25 to start him? This isn’t hockey/baseball. Also, JD’s game should translate more quickly to the pros. He already has clean, repeatable mechanics that helps his accuracy. They can use his running ability in a RPO-heavy scheme as he learns NFL defenses. This worked great for Jalen Hurts. Let him be a dynamic playmaker right away.

Maye OTOH is obviously younger and needs work on his mechanics. So he may benefit from time watching, while the coaches work on correcting that stuff.

However, as much as we may think it’s a good idea to be patient with these guys - the external pressures will almost certainly force either of them into early action.

Yeah this is really about DM….

 

[usiel]

I think the whole question about when/if to start the 2OA rookie is a “it depends” situation.

If they draft JD, are they really going to wait until he’s turning 25 to start him? This isn’t hockey/baseball. Also, JD’s game should translate more quickly to the pros. He already has clean, repeatable mechanics that helps his accuracy. They can use his running ability in a RPO-heavy scheme as he learns NFL defenses. This worked great for Jalen Hurts. Let him be a dynamic playmaker right away.

Maye OTOH is obviously younger and needs work on his mechanics. So he may benefit from time watching, while the coaches work on correcting that stuff.

However, as much as we may think it’s a good idea to be patient with these guys - the external pressures will almost certainly force either of them into early action.

Bolded JD feels like he could start day one. Of course protecting himself and taking the easy check downs would be key for me considering the OL will only be nominally improved.

 

[g00n]

I'm leaning toward just drafting the best ATHLETE and letting the coaches coach him up.

Top draft pick QBs are definitely expected to start more often than not these days. This is probably no different. He's not walking into an instant contender so a "get your feet wet" season is likely.

 

[Jags]

I said this a month ago and people were like noooo…..gotta start a top QB pick immediately……says who?!

Agreed. I think it completely depends on who else you have. We have a guy that can start for 2 more years, and we'd like it very much if his play improved his trade value (or shocked us and turned into the starter we need, allowing us to trade the other guy). So we're in a uniquely good position to fully evaluate 2 guys, which is a luxury.

I'm not saying you have to play the guy, but it's rare. An admission that he's not ready

Nonsense. Your top priority is to protect that asset because you want this guy to be your guy for the next decade plus. But if they soundly beat Sam out for the job, you'd better feel REALLY good about your O-line and the rookie's ability to get the ball out and not take sacks.

"An admission that he's not ready"? An admission to who, exactly? Are you so scared of what the fans or media think that you'd let them coach your team? Is it that "You're sending your #2 pick a bad message" crap that some people spew? If his resolve and ego are that fragile, you picked the wrong guy.

Is Sam the guy to groom the rookie? JB, someone else?

The coaches groom the rookie. You want your starter and rookie to have a good relationship, but trusting his development to a guy with every reason to root against him is bonkers. The coaches take the lead and supervise the dynamic between those guys cuz it can be super supportive or super toxic.

If not a veteran at any of the 3 slots, then they will have a rookie, a guy with one season, and who else?

I think you go find whoever today's Heinicke is. Like @Ridley Simon said, you don't want to waste much cap space, but you also want a guy you like that can play. But it also depends on the rookie. If the rookie plays really well in camp, you see him as your QB2, and you're comfortable with his ability to protect himself and the play of your O-line, then you can skimp on QB3 a bit. You ideally want a Heinicke type, but that'd be a luxury you only spend on if you can afford it.

No 8-10 million JBs, in other words.

 

[Kazer]

Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels? What film shows about 2 of the draft's top QB prospects

The North Carolina and LSU stars sit behind only Caleb Williams on draft boards and each has specific pros and cons.

theathletic.com

Was checking to see if anyone had posted this. The key passage for me:

Daniels’ gaudy statistics and eye-popping athletic ability are tantalizing, but he had the benefit of playing in one of the nation’s most talented offenses. Daniels still has a long way to go when it comes to speeding up his process and consistently attacking the middle of the field. His rare abilities are his athleticism and accuracy, which will give him a substantial floor to work with, but it’ll take time for him to develop the anticipation and timing he’ll need to be a plus passer. Additionally, his arm is just better than average, which makes his margin for error smaller.

Maye attacks the middle of the field with anticipation and aggressively hunts for deep opportunities. Ultimately, Maye’s rare traits are more reminiscent of the passers we’ve seen reach the modern pinnacle of the position. His creativity in the pocket and the way he manipulates defenses is hard to teach and is reminiscent of Josh Allen or C.J. Stroud. He needs to clean up his footwork, but that’s a relatively easy fix compared to other flaws. Maye may need a year to hone in his fundamentals and experiment to understand what he can get away with in the league, but in my opinion, he has the skill set to take off as soon as his second season in the league. After studying both quarterbacks closely, Maye might be closer to challenging Williams than he is to Daniels as a prospect.

I get the urge to go for the guy who will be better year 1 but if you're drafting a QB in the top 3, you should be far more worried about how they will play from 1-10+ years and not just year 1. RG3 was dynamite his first year. How did that turn out?

(FWIW, I'm still undecided on Maye vs Daniels [vs J.J. McCarthy] but seeing the rhetoric about how Daniels is the no-brainer slam dunk is crazy talk to me. The only option I would have unhappy with is not drafting a QB.)

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

The NFL Draft is in 50 days. 50 more days of this shit. Wake me up when we’re about to make the pick.

 

[ynotcaps]

Bolded JD feels like he could start day one. Of course protecting himself and taking the easy check downs would be key for me considering the OL will only be nominally improved.

After QB, the next most interesting thing is how we're going to remake the OL. Dropping 2 starters from last year (OK, opening day starters in Gates's case) was a pretty big statement that they're going to be aggressive -- thank goodness.

A lot of people are projecting a ton of OLs to go in the 1st round, which sucks for us. Hopefully there'll be at least one potential early starter there at the top of the second.

If the Riveraskins had made those moves, I would've wondered WTF they were thinking -- but with this crew I'm excited to see what they're planning.

 

[Roric]

Question for the Jayden Daniels fans: Is Fields that much different? They seem to have similar skillsets to me. Yes, Jayden may be the better passer (but we haven't seen that at the NFL level), but the main draw with him has been his elite rushing ability/upside, something that Fields has already shown at the pro level. And a plus for Fields over JD is that he's bigger and probably more durable. I don't think it's that far-fetched to think that the problems ailing Fields can be improved with a proper coaching staff, which he has arguably not had in his time with the Bears, and he's still so young. If it all boils down to wanting the rookie contract and not paying big money for Fields after this year than that makes sense but I'm just wondering.

I understand why those that want Maye would not go this route, but is trading for Fields/drafting MHJ that much worse than taking Daniels? I'm just saying, he could be dirt cheap in a trade right now. Definitely much cheaper than trading up for Williams at least.

 

[ynotcaps]

Question for the Jayden Daniels fans: Is Fields that much different? They seem to have similar skillsets to me. Yes, Jayden may be the better passer (but we haven't seen that at the NFL level), but the main draw with him has been his elite rushing ability/upside, something that Fields has already shown at the pro level. And a plus for Fields over JD is that he's bigger and probably more durable. I don't think it's that far-fetched to think that the problems ailing Fields can be improved with a proper coaching staff, which he has arguably not had in his time with the Bears, and he's still so young. If it all boils down to wanting the rookie contract and not paying big money for Fields after this year than that makes sense but I'm just wondering.

I understand why those that want Maye would not go this route, but is trading for Fields/drafting MHJ that much worse than taking Daniels? I'm just saying, he could be dirt cheap in a trade right now. Definitely much cheaper than trading up for Williams at least.

I think JD is a better passer than Fields -- and a better runner for that matter. But I think there's also a big difference in value; Daniels is still projectable, as is Maye, for that matter, whereas Fields has had a couple of years in the league and still left questions. So, the rookie QB does give you a cost-controlled 5 year window whereas with Fields you've got him for one year plus a 5th year option.
If you're going to have questions about a guy, I'd rather have 4-5 cost-controlled years than one year to see if you can "fix" Fields and then have to make a big-money decision on him.
If we were to trade for Fields and use the pick on MHJ or trade down or anything else, the new regime would have to be confident AF that Fields already is the guy they think he is and that they just need to knock the CHI crud off him.

 

[g00n]

I'm leaning toward just drafting the best ATHLETE and letting the coaches coach him up.

Top draft pick QBs are definitely expected to start more often than not these days. This is probably no different. He's not walking into an instant contender so a "get your feet wet" season is likely.

Expanding on this, I would not have felt this way with Snyder/Rivera or any other recent coaching staff.

Back then you definitely sense an out-of-the-box ready made QB would be necessary, given their track record of ruining QBs (or at least failing to develop them beyond what they already brought to the table).

Give the new team some raw material and see what happens.

 

[kicksavedave]

The NFL Draft is in 50 days. 50 more days of this shit. Wake me up when we’re about to make the pick.

Sir, if you think this spirited debate is going to end on draft day, I'd suggest you re read the last 15 years worth of messages on this forum ( or any forum)

This debate will rage on until Adam Peters wins a super bowl, or gets fired, whichever comes first.

 

[usiel]

Sir, if you think this spirited debate is going to end on draft day, I'd suggest you re read the last 15 years worth of messages on this forum ( or any forum)

This debate will rage on until Adam Peters wins a super bowl, or gets fired, whichever comes first.

For me its great seeing this thread be so active post-Snyder.

 

[kicksavedave]

For me its great seeing this thread be so active post-Snyder.

Yeah, my Give-a-Shit meter has gone from 0 to 60 overnight. I still can't believe the pressure actually forced Snyder out. I imagine what he's doing right now and how sad he must be that his toy was taken away, and it makes me giggle a little bit.

I'd give Josh an A+ so far, but its early.

 

[Roric]

Wouldnt mind if its super cheap. Experience in kingsbury’s system. Would be good safety blanket

 

[EroCaps]

Question for the Jayden Daniels fans: Is Fields that much different? They seem to have similar skillsets to me. Yes, Jayden may be the better passer (but we haven't seen that at the NFL level), but the main draw with him has been his elite rushing ability/upside, something that Fields has already shown at the pro level. And a plus for Fields over JD is that he's bigger and probably more durable. I don't think it's that far-fetched to think that the problems ailing Fields can be improved with a proper coaching staff, which he has arguably not had in his time with the Bears, and he's still so young. If it all boils down to wanting the rookie contract and not paying big money for Fields after this year than that makes sense but I'm just wondering.

I understand why those that want Maye would not go this route, but is trading for Fields/drafting MHJ that much worse than taking Daniels? I'm just saying, he could be dirt cheap in a trade right now. Definitely much cheaper than trading up for Williams at least.

I suggest people who think Daniels is some amazing passer watch Dwayne Haskins and Justin Fields throw a million TDs in college.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Yeah, my Give-a-Shit meter has gone from 0 to 60 overnight. I still can't believe the pressure actually forced Snyder out. I imagine what he's doing right now and how sad he must be that his toy was taken away, and it makes me giggle a little bit.

I'd give Josh an A+ so far, but it’s early.

Yes Sir!!

I think is something that literally 100% of Skins fans can agree on.

We are all free at last!