OT: 2024 Washington Commanders thread: change we can believe in!

[CapitalsCupReality]

Eric Bienemy is currently sitting in the basement at Commanders Park wondering where his stapler is.


How to get fired without actually getting fired.

Contractually they probably can’t demote him (unless he agrees to it), and why would he unless he has no options. I‘d wager he’s patiently waiting for his check to walk away….

 

[RandyHolt]

I'll die on the hill that Caleb is not 6'1". 6 foot 3/4 whatever his actual height, ain't 6'1.

It's inevitable his OC reigns him in and forces him to be a pocket passer. Even if he truly is 6'1, it's not going to be an easy task for his OC. Kliff.

 

[Jags]

Yeah no way you trade up one spot.

Agreed. It just seems logical that CHI would get a better offer from someone else; that we'd have to pay as if we were moving up 10 spots, not 1. Just isn't worth it. Stay put or trade back.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Lincoln Riley on ESPN saying CW cares about winning, and any of these potential NFL cities he would be fine with…smart to say if you’re hoping Chicago moves the pick…

 

[Bananas]

It’s so bizarre to me that after watching extremely sub-par QB play for over 30 years, the fan base isn’t more excited/invested in the idea of drafting one at N2OA. Like so many say trade down and sign a veteran or lesser valued prospect.

 

[ynotcaps]

I would be absolutely shocked if we were to waste draft capital -- this year and at least next year -- to move up one spot when the greatest asset we have in the rebuild is our draft capital. Yes, we have lots of cap space, but Peters has said he wants to build through the draft, and that's the most successful model.

I'm very partial to Daniels at 2OA, but either way, they are going to be in position to take a probable franchise-caliber QB if they stay put. Plus 5 of the next 100 picks, plus the cap space to fill in some key veterans. And, barring a HOU-level one-year turn-around, another probable top 10-12 pick next year.

We've got strong new leadership, our new coaching regime settled, and enough ammo to add several very good young players -- there's no need (nor, I think, upside) in doing something rash and diminishing our resources.

 

[Roric]

Maye is just so boring to me. He’s the most “game manager” type of all 3 top qb’s and not what this franchise needs, which is a dynamic playmaker. The best teams have a qb that can take over games by themselves if needed (chiefs, bills, ravens, eagles).

Purdy’s success is a total outlier with the perfect system/weapons/coaching staff surrounding him, none of which we have. Could say goff is in a similar situation. Just boring QBs

If not caleb, get daniels

 

[kicksavedave]

It’s so bizarre to me that after watching extremely sub-par QB play for over 30 years, the fan base isn’t more excited/invested in the idea of drafting one at N2OA. Like so many say trade down and sign a veteran or lesser valued prospect.

We've seen good QB prospects just ruined behind poor OL so many times though. And we've seen in the recent past, our solid OL helping make mid QBs look pretty good, like when Cousins played behind Trent Williams, Morgan Moses and Brandon Scherff.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

It’s so bizarre to me that after watching extremely sub-par QB play for over 30 years, the fan base isn’t more excited/invested in the idea of drafting one at N2OA. Like so many say trade down and sign a veteran or lesser valued prospect.

There’s no more important position and we have failed to fill it forever!

I’m flabbergasted at the trade down suggestions also. You only trade down out of the top 3 if you think the next two QBs are busts.

 

[kicksavedave]

Maye is just so boring to me. He’s the most “game manager” type of all 3 top qb’s and not what this franchise needs, which is a dynamic playmaker. The best teams have a qb that can take over games by themselves if needed (chiefs, bills, ravens, eagles).

Purdy’s success is a total outlier with the perfect system/weapons/coaching staff surrounding him, none of which we have. Could say goff is in a similar situation. Just boring QBs

If not caleb, get daniels

There's literally no QB who can do much of anything by themselves, let alone take over a game. NFL offenses, more than almost any other thing there is., requires all 11 people doing their jobs right, to function properly. Defenses can easily take out a scrambling QB if they can't read and pass on zone defenses.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

We've seen good QB prospects just ruined behind poor OL so many times though. And we've seen in the recent past, our solid OL helping make mid QBs look pretty good, like when Cousins played behind Trent Williams, Morgan Moses and Brandon Scherff.

you just sit the guy a year and rebuild the line over this and next offseason….don’t be a fool and you don’t have to get your guy killed.

 

[kicksavedave]

There’s no more important position and we have failed to fill it forever!

I’m flabbergasted at the trade down suggestions also. You only trade down out of the top 3 if you think the next two QBs are busts.

Yeah, this is the point. We don't know what the FO thinks, but all three of the top QBs have some serious risks.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Yeah, this is the point. We don't know what the FO thinks, but all three of the top QBs have some serious risks.

yeah I disagree….but you just have to trust the process. I bet all 3 are going to impress with maybe Maye being ranked 3rd.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

I refuse to be anything other than optimistic right now. Sure, the Johnson saga was a bump in the road but Quinn is a really good coach. If you read about his downfall in Atlanta, most stuff I've read harkens back to two mistakes replacing Kyle with an inexperienced play caller and taking on too much responsibility when he gained personnel control as well after the Super Bowl run -- neither of these two issues will be issues in DC.

He should help the defense that was historically bad last year and he's already starting to fill out his staff on both sides of the football with solid hires. They are going to draft their Q1 in a few months. They have a ton of draft picks and FA money. They have the league's top candidate as their new GM. Snyder is banished to the shadow realm.

Sure, they could definitely f*** the football and mess this all up but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt until they give me reason not to.

 

[StreetHawk]

Agreed. It just seems logical that CHI would get a better offer from someone else; that we'd have to pay as if we were moving up 10 spots, not 1. Just isn't worth it. Stay put or trade back.

Also about the fact that there are still 2 QBs on the board when Wash picks at 2, so they should not be desperate for CW. Again, unless the Wash staff believes that CW is truly that much better than the other 2 kids at 2/3. And that value has to be worth what extra Chicago is asking for. I'd stand pat and build around either Maye/Daniels.

I don't think the separation between Caleb and Maye/Daniels is as great as between Lawrence and the others from his draft class. Much closer to Luck/RG3 draft.

 

[hotpaws]

i'm not interested in a rb that can throw at QB and regardless of which QB we take if we don't trade down they are still just a prospect until they prove themselves

it's nice to believe we're a lock at getting a franchise QB at num 2 but all you have to do is look at how many highly rated/picked QB's have busted to know that's not true

 

[kicksavedave]

you just sit the guy a year and rebuild the line over this and next offseason….don’t be a fool and you don’t have to get your guy killed.

Sitting the guy is a lot easier when they are drafted 10-30 instead of 2 overall. There's a window when his contract will be cheap, he will have a lot of pressure to play well early. The last time I remember someone top 1/2 overall sitting out his rookie year was Carson Palmer. Maybe I'm missing someone more recent?

yeah I disagree….but you just have to trust the process. I bet all 3 are going to impress with maybe Maye being ranked 3rd.

I'm no pro scout, but Adam Peters is, so yeah, we trust the process. But from what I see, the risks are as follows:

CW: Doesn't play within the offense, or read defenses and make progressions, and has significant maturity questions that are well documented.
DM: Has issues dealing with pressure, his footwork and accuracy really decline under a pass rush, much more so than the other QBs. Think "happy feet" but you won't see this in his highlight reels, only in full game views.
JD: Has shown an RGIII like inability to protect himself when scrambling, getting KO'd of a few games by taking massive hits. Otherwise, I see him as having the most upside and lowest risk of the three.

For the record, JD has a higher passer rating against tougher competition over two full years than the other two QBs. Both CW and Maye regressed in 2023 which is a very bad omen for NFL success, whereas Daniels improved a lot in 2023.

 

[Roric]

There's literally no QB who can do much of anything by themselves, let alone take over a game. NFL offenses, more than almost any other thing there is., requires all 11 people doing their jobs right, to function properly. Defenses can easily take out a scrambling QB if they can't read and pass on zone defenses.

Josh allen did just that against the vaunted chiefs D thats shut down every other playoff opponent thus far. He was tearing them up on the ground and they had no answer all game. bills very well mightve won that game if they hadnt went away from letting allen use his legs for some strange reason

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Sitting the guy is a lot easier when they are drafted 10-30 instead of 2 overall. There's a window when his contract will be cheap, he will have a lot of pressure to play well early. The last time I remember someone top 1/2 overall sitting out his rookie year was Carson Palmer. Maybe I'm missing someone more recent?

I'm no pro scout, but Adam Peters is, so yeah, we trust the process. But from what I see, the risks are as follows:

CW: Doesn't play within the offense, or read defenses and make progressions, and has significant maturity questions that are well documented.
DM: Has issues dealing with pressure, his footwork and accuracy really decline under a pass rush, much more so than the other QBs. Think "happy feet" but you won't see this in his highlight reels, only in full game views.
JD: Has shown an RGIII like inability to protect himself when scrambling, getting KO'd of a few games by taking massive hits. Otherwise, I see him as having the most upside and lowest risk of the three.

For the record, JD has a higher passer rating against tougher competition over two full years than the other two QBs. Both CW and Maye regressed in 2023 which is a very bad omen for NFL success, whereas Daniels improved a lot in 2023.

I don’t buy it….if the Head of Football Ops says the plan is they sit the top pick a year (or half a year if the o-line rebuild goes faster), because we have a decent guy in Sam to rely on for now, as he learns and we rebuild the line, the pressure goes away. Thats the plan and you execute it.

And yeah….I know all the numbers and scouting around those 3. Maye is my biggest fear of busting if any. Hopefully the guy in charge sniffs out those issues, if they exist.

 

[Ridley Simon]

It’s so bizarre to me that after watching extremely sub-par QB play for over 30 years, the fan base isn’t more excited/invested in the idea of drafting one at N2OA. Like so many say trade down and sign a veteran or lesser valued prospect.

It’s only because you cannot expect greatness at 2 from a QB. You certainly can more so with an OT. It just seems to be the case.

I’d welcome a trade down to 3 or 4 or even as far back as 8. The amount of accrued value would be tremendous. Shit, just look at the Bears.

Their ascension to top 3 spot off of a trade is not off or a one off. They happen all the time.

Let’s GO. It’s not 2024 or 2025 I care about. It’s beyond that.

I'll die on the hill that Caleb is not 6'1". 6 foot 3/4 whatever his actual height, ain't 6'1.

It's inevitable his OC reins him in and forces him to be a pocket passer. Even if he truly is 6'1, it's not going to be an easy task for his OC. Kliff.

That’s an odd hill to die on, my Old Caps friend? Over .25 on an inch?

I don’t care who they take, as long as they trust their new people to make the decisions, and that they are attempting to maximize the value of the pick. It’s not the #1. BUT, it’s as close as you can be. #2’s have been maxed out So Many Times over the years. Why not us?

 

[RedRocking]

You guys who like Daniels will have to explain it to me as we get closer to the draft. I just don’t see his game translating at the NFL level (happy to be wrong, and persuaded during the process).

I just don’t care if a guy has 4.4 speed, especially if he doesn’t use it to buy time and keep his eyes downfield. Taking off 10+ times a game is not a recipe for success in the NFL. He also doesn’t attack the middle of the field with his arm (like Maye/CW do). He’d rather run to attack a soft zone.

Anyways, I’m waiting to see something during the draft process that changes my opinion of him.

 

[Ridley Simon]

There’s no more important position and we have failed to fill it forever!

I’m flabbergasted at the trade down suggestions also. You only trade down out of the top 3 if you think the next two QBs are busts.

I think you can go to 4, knowing AZ will take a non-QB (MHJr or Alt/Fashinu). Beyond that is a stretch.

 

[kicksavedave]

I think you can go to 4, knowing AZ will take a non-QB (MHJr or Alt/Fashinu). Beyond that is a stretch.

Yeah, I love trading down to 4 with AZ, and its super easy on a mock draft site. May not be so easy in real life, but check out this haul:

 

[John Price]

rewinding the Dan Quinn press conference from the beginning and I really like what I'm hearing. the conferences already sound so much more warm and welcoming than Snyder ones

PRESS CONFERENCE: Welcome Head Coach Dan Quinn! | Washington Commanders

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www.youtube.com

 

[ynotcaps]

You guys who like Daniels will have to explain it to me as we get closer to the draft. I just don’t see his game translating at the NFL level (happy to be wrong, and persuaded during the process).

I just don’t care if a guy has 4.4 speed, especially if he doesn’t use it to buy time and keep his eyes downfield. Taking off 10+ times a game is not a recipe for success in the NFL. He also doesn’t attack the middle of the field with his arm (like Maye/CW do). He’d rather run to attack a soft zone.

Anyways, I’m waiting to see something during the draft process that changes my opinion of him.

I posted a while back back (not sniping, just saying to the folks who remember, yes, I know I sounds like a broken record): Saw JD twice live this year and he was ungodly. They weren't 2 games where he ran like a demon, he tore the opponents (AUB and Army for a half) apart with his passing, including a play where he weas forced from the pocket and threw a bomb sprinting to his right to a WR who read the play and broke deep. Don't watch the highlights and assume he just takes off when protection breaks down. He's a QB until he has to become a runner -- and, yes, there are a lot of called runs for him because he's the fastest MFer on the field (OK, maybe w/ the exception of Nabers). Presumably, his pro staff is going to dial down those risks, at least until he adds 10 more lbs of muscle to his frame (whcih will easily accept it.)

I watched him closely in warm-ups and every single ball he threw was perfect -- every route, every receiver, perfect hand-catches on or one step from the sideline/back of the EZ. Yes it was only warm-ups, but he was clock-work perfect, every single throw.

In case you don't believe me -- and objectively, there's no reason you should -- I dug into this over the weekend at PFF, and JD not only ranked the best of the 3 in '23, he did so in virtually measure, including intermediate throws and rating in pressure situations, which is going to matter until this line is fully rebuilt: