OT: 2024 Washington Commanders thread: change we can believe in!

Holtbyisms

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Some people think Lamar Jackson is the ultimate QB, others think Josh Allen is. That's what this all boils down to. I personally believe a predominant pocket passer with a gunslinger mentality who has "escapeability" is where it's at when I think about longevity and building a dynasty. I myself have witnessed too many short lived elite windows from quarterbacks who play the game like Lamar Jackson and I have no desire for this team to try and become a 2-3 year wonder. I want a decade of winning after several decades of not.
 

CapitalsCupReality

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I don’t think LJ or JA are the ultimate QB…..neither has won anything.

I personally don’t like the LJ style of play….but JD’s ability to deliver the ball anywhere with his arm offsets those concerns for me to some extent.
 
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dreadpirateroberts

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Matt Miller from ESPN.com this a.m., on team most likely to trade up in Rd1 for a non-QB:

Miller: Washington Commanders. We all believe they will take a quarterback with the No. 2 overall pick, but I also think they're the team most likely to move up for a non-quarterback. The Commanders currently own pick Nos. 36 and 40 in the second round and are in the market for a left tackle after signing interior linemen Nick Allegretti and Tyler Biadasz in free agency. Per the Jimmy Johnson draft trade chart, packaging the two second-rounders would be good enough to get to pick No. 16 overall and grab a left tackle before the run on the position likely starts around pick No. 20 with the Pittsburgh Steelers on the clock. I think Penn State's Olumuyiwa Fashanu, Washington's Troy Fautanu and/or Oklahoma's Tyler Guyton could be available in that range.

They should absolutely consider it. I think all 3 can play LT whereas guys like Latham and Fuaga are probably RTs only. Mims is the biggest question mark. He has the athletic profile but has a small sample size due to a lengthy injury history.
 
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kicksavedave

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I know you’re kidding but I feel less inclined to worry about that after hearing it’s a tribute to his mother, a nail salon tech or whatever they’re called.

I have no problem with CW painting his nails in tribute to his mom. It's painting profanity on them like "f*** OSU" that gives me concern about his maturity.
 

Ridley Simon

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This is why we should just trade up for caleb and be done with all this pettiness. I’ll have a word with adam
Be careful what you wish for (talking to Adam), you *may* just came back as a JJ guy 😏😏.

Which would also end the Maye/JD rancor. Now wouldn’t it. LOL. Them it would just be me and a scant few others defending against most of the board 🤓🤓.

We can all unite!
 
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Jags

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I can see the slight arm strength difference between him and JD but the difference is JD seems to be ahead in the processing time so sort of equalizes this between the two for a toss up.

On the arm strength, it's not so much that you see it when Maye torques it because we're used to watching NFL football where it's commonplace. It shows up more on JD's film when the strength is lacking. He has those "back across the field" throws to wide open guys just sitting and waiting for the ball. And they do wait, because the ball takes a while to arrive, and the "wide open" window closes by the time it gets there.

Also a lot of underthrown longballs from JD, where the 2 studs have enough gap to slow up and catch it regardless. I'll give you that maybe a few of those he knew he had the space and made safe throws instead of risking overthrowing, but most of those balls are in the air before such a choice can be made.

JD processing faster is mitigated by how often his receivers run free, how quickly he dismisses MOF options because of the tougher reads, and DM's lack of both of those things, in my opinion. Again, not saying JD is bad at this at all, just that circumstances skew the perception in difference.

Ran a lot more than I thought naturally much less yards to show for it

And much less abuse. @kicksavedave has been saying a lot lately that JD curbed his reckless tendencies later in the year and I just don't see it. He definitely knows how to slide and also occasionally gets out of bounds, but most of the time he gets tackled, willingly.

It's awesome that he has the ability to run away from people, but that will diminish (both with age and right away because the NFL is faster). DM takes what they give him, period. He can run and runs when he should, but he's also more inclined to protect himself when he does. He takes on defenders sometimes, but because he can. He has the wingspan to throw an arm out and push off. He takes a few ill-advised hits, but far less often.

Nice middle of the field strike at 17:40.

Those middle of the field throws for Maye are pretty key, even when he misses the tight windows or there are drops. It's the reads and the confidence to gun it in there that stand out. Seeing that the cover LBs bite on a crosser, making the window for a completion super tight, but throwing it anyway BECAUSE the LBs left that space behind them when they bit. Seeing a read like that (sometimes causing it with a look), one step ahead, is pro-level, and having the arm to fire it in there... That's how you leverage smaller receivers like Terry and Jahan.

Not a lot of that from JD, but it's unclear to me whether that's just play design. So much to the outside from his offense. Again, not saying he can't do those things, just that it's more clear that DM can and does on a more regular basis (and it's a huge part of the NFL game).

Now here’s one thing I don’t understand: why does daniels get knocked for having elite receivers when burrow had jefferson and chase?

I'm personally not knocking him for having those receivers. It just makes evaluating more difficult because there's a "chicken or the egg" aspect to it. Those guys run free pretty frequently. Makes processing less of a thing and YAC more of a thing. But you still have to make the throws, and JD does. He has far fewer glaring misses than DM for sure, and a bunch of just plain beautiful, perfectly-placed passes. But Drake has a bunch of beauties, too, and the misses aren't all that alarming given his overall completion rate.

Like @Holtbyisms said, this might all just boil down to the type of QB they want in their new offense because both of these guys are insanely good prospects.

In other words, their differences in style stand out way more to me than differences in ability.
 

ynotcaps

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I’m all for trading up for a LT if he’s elite.

I’m all for trading up for an elite player like Chop Robinson or Brian Thomas if it’s not too expensive.

I’m all for staying put and taking guys with the picks they have.

Probably most intriguing draft ever.
Thomas would be a terrific add, as he's exactly the type of receiver we haven't had in years -- big bodied (and fast as hell). If we can't get to him (and he may go earlier w/ a run on WRs), Legette from SC may be a guy we could get in the third who is tall w/ some good results.

C. Robinson worries me a little as the word on him is "massive traits, head-scratching lack of production." He's anywhere from late first to available to us even in 40 in mocks.

If we don't/can't move up for OT, the best hope is that Morgan is still on the board at 36, otherwise we're looking at project guys from that point on.

At this stage, the only glaring hole we have left (assuming we go QB in 1st) is OT -- both of them, unfortunately. If we can't get fixes in the draft -- and I don't see a scenario where we walk away with 2 starters out of the draft (and if we would even want to start rookie bookends, even if we could.) Hopefully there will be some improvements available in training camp cuts (or maybe via trade post-draft?) Otherwise, whichever guy lines up behind center is going to have one hell of an adventurous season.
 
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Ridley Simon

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Some people think Lamar Jackson is the ultimate QB, others think Josh Allen is. That's what this all boils down to. I personally believe a predominant pocket passer with a gunslinger mentality who has "escapeability" is where it's at when I think about longevity and building a dynasty. I myself have witnessed too many short lived elite windows from quarterbacks who play the game like Lamar Jackson and I have no desire for this team to try and become a 2-3 year wonder. I want a decade of winning after several decades of not.
Let’s be honest. No one thinks those 2 are the ultimate anything. Mahomes is. And everyone knows it.

Those other 2 are just very very good to great players, who go about the game in differing ways. They are also both miles better than anything the Skins have rolled out over the last 30+ yrs (save that one RG3 magical season ride)

Seriously?

I still do this.

In permanent marker.
Well…..since the shoe seems to fit? 😂😂😂
 

Holtbyisms

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Let’s be honest. No one thinks those 2 are the ultimate anything. Mahomes is. And everyone knows it.

Those other 2 are just very very good to great players, who go about the game in differing ways. They are also both miles better than anything the Skins have rolled out over the last 30+ yrs (save that one RG3 magical season ride)


Well…..since the shoe seems to fit? 😂😂😂
Just block me, you literally follow every post I make around and disagree with it lol I was simply comparing play styles of two high end QBs to the two quarterbacks in question. If you've got better comparisons for them plug those into my post. Doesn't really matter.
 

usiel

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So first game against SC. Impressed on the short and medium accuracy. First off platform throw was right on the money. A couple of mulligan passes that happen in every game even the top QBs in the league experience. I can see the slight arm strength difference between him and JD but the difference is JD seems to be ahead in the processing time so sort of equalizes this between the two for a toss up. Got one of the underthrown under pressure TD passes that I feel its more on the defense not being able to adapt. Two back to back INTs not sure what he is registering vision-wise for those two.

App State: Still real good accuracy on the short to medium short passes. He's running a bit but unsurprising not like a JD which is fine still good to above average running from sort of a classic QB sized prospect. They get some positive yardage even though they get tripped up from behind. Ran a lot more than I thought naturally much less yards to show for it but was still getting some crucial first downs. Some misses throws clearly footwork out of wack but naturally the every hope is that can be cleaned up which is never a 100%. Like his overall play in this one.

Minn: First play scramble got blown up as he hit the side lines. Nothing negative but he's a big target not a lot of wriggle going to the sideline. Not a knock here just the comparison of avoiding hits or not in scrambles. 12:10 dig this off platform thrown but I would see the receiver deserved the more credit for hauling this one in since it was underthrown. Next couple of throws very accurate. Bad INT but then a series of nice accurate throws. Was under a bit of pressure but missed a receiver wide open (17:13). Nice middle of the field strike at 17:40.

Pitt: Initially looks like a low level newbie Helldiver 2 player trying to solo a too high level a mission and getting bug swarmed (not putting this on DM eval-wise). Some clutch runs to get some first downs (not long ones). Overall starting to really move against Pitt and getting some TDs. Again DM looking pretty accurate. Not worried about any out throws that sometimes miss for any QB ever. Last part of the game was a bit meh but they had the lead not really looking anything negative here.

Syracuse: Missed the wide open Tez pass but it was still in some advance before getting hit so I would ding the QB on that one especially seeing JD getting free runners and delivering strikes. Lots of accurate short passes. Still surprised how much he's running. He can break off big chunks like JD but is doing enough. Also stiff arming some folks.

Miami: Opposing team defense much better. A lot of short passes. Still not seeing any practical arm strength difference that give Maye an advantage over JD with his accuracy and timing. Not sure why he held on the ball with that 2nd blitzer right up the middle with plenty of time to see him. Notice at times he's really taking the velocity off the ball like trying to guide it which translates to wobbly spirals and not really sure if that is helping. Really great deep strike to Walker for a TD. Was also noticing what pundits were saying about the throwing motion but atm not really seeing a negative. It is long I think it is more an impact if Maye's processing is average or below ultimately. Some sacks some regular throws for the win.

Virginia: Really nice TD pass to Walker. Still running more than I would expect. Next few accuracy seems to be off was throwing behind some open receivers. Have noticed him starting down some areas though still got another TD not sure who got that one. Ok that throwing motion keeps standing out especially on the faster plays. Accuracy also suffering a bit in this stretch. Some good small QB runs including the one for a TD. Another passing TD slightly behind but JD had a couple of those also. Receiver was open enough. Oops must have got called back. Man that weird wind up is still bugging me especially when he goes off platform. Some inaccurate throws. Pretty mixed bag at this point in the game. Missed throws even with some crazy protection time. Ended up losing this game.

GT: Nice throw to Nesbit for the TD early. Do like that he really know when to throw the ball out of bounds and move on to the next play.

Still not finished will edit post as it goes.
GT: Finishing up with this. I don't know if there is a stat for QB scrambles but man DM feels like he's running more often than JD. Not a criticism since DM's scrambles generally a net positive and I have no problem with them. Excellent pass to number 0 for a TD with pressure coming on. Games tightening up. Accuracy dipping at least on the drive of when it was 42-46. Got bailed out by an excellent catch by a RB (Morales?) that was behind him. Man, Maye all day to throw and hits Walker who then gets hit from the back/side and fumbles.

Campbell: Sacked early when he felt the pressure (good) but just good pursuit on the D player. Nice bullet to Walker for a TD just slightly low but not really challenging for the receiver. Maye all day in the pocket ends up with another long throw for a wide open Walker TD. Weirdly barely any running by May in the first half of this game. Second half of the game main notable was a blown coverage for an easy TD moving on to the next game.

Duke: Nice first drive that ends with an easy run for Maye for a rushing TD. Throws on this drive were accurate I am getting distracted by the non-spirals that still get where they need to be. Maybe this is spiral aesthetics bias? Bad through backed up start of the drive leads to a ball sailing and an INT. Sort of an inexplicable throw on that one. Whatever that happens to all QBs. Drive stalls. He's looking down receivers and doesn't seem like he is going through progressions. No effective running for Maye in this game Duke's doing a good job. Nice clutch short pass to Walker on a 4th down play to keep the chains moving. NOT good passes to try and get a TD on that drive settle for the FG. Ahh the hurtle attempt all I know the way he landed he's going to feel that for a week or so. Underthrown deep ball to Walker defensed away. Now behind in the game a long pass to Walker. Really seeing that weird long slinging motion nullifies an arm strength advantage. Look it gets the job done but will it in the NFL. If he's the pick can he process fast enough to compensate. Appreciate the troll by the Duke player on a failed grab by Walker in the end zone swiping away Walker's towel as it lay like an offending bug in the end zone. Nice leaping catch by #18 (Nesbit). Then TD by Mr. #18. Nice improve type throw for a TD in OT for the win.

Still have Clemson and anything after.
 

Ridley Simon

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Just block me, you literally follow every post I make around and disagree with it lol I was simply comparing play styles of two high end QBs to the two quarterbacks in question. If you've got better comparisons for them plug those into my post. Doesn't really matter.
😂😂

🤷🏻‍♂️🤷🏻‍♂️

Sorry man. I don’t know you. I guess I just disagree with a lot of what you say? Not looking to cast any aspersions.

Oh and I don’t block poeple. That’s juvenile.
 

ynotcaps

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On the whole CW nail painting nonsense I actually was kinda impressed. I've found that many folks, have a hard time going against sociological norms. For example for my younger brothers bachelor party I bought capes for the roughly party of 10 or so to use once we hit the DC bar crawling time of the night. I will never forget dropping this on everyone right before we headed out and my poor bro was speachless for five minutes. TBH he was frozen in terror about wearing a cape in public until finally he said a true thing that he couldn't do it. Only myself and one of my bandmates at the time could roll in wearing the capes not giving a crap about the eyeballing. Was just interesting seeing that in action.
I ended up dribbling a 16 lb. bowling ball that was chained and padlocked around my ankle.
(NB: Camelot does not admit parties where one member is wearing a bowling ball. At least they didn't "back in my day"...)
 

Jags

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Sorry man. I don’t know you. I guess I just disagree with a lot of what you say?

Maybe, but on this particular one you completely ignored the point he was making to make light of the examples he used to illustrate it. Whether it was deliberate or you misunderstood is immaterial, I can see why he'd be frustrated.

His point was JD vs DM is, in terms of style, akin to Jackson vs Allen, and that he prefers Allen's style.

Your response to that was, "Pfffft. Mahomes is the best. Them 2 guys are just very good but still better than we've had cuz we suck." He's talking apples vs oranges and you said, "Plums!" and then for some reason, "All of our fruit has sucked for 30 years!"

You didn't disagree. You missed the point. If you want to make a point that has absolutely nothing to do with the post you're quoting, maybe don't quote a post.
 
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Ridley Simon

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Maybe, but on this particular one you completely ignored the point he was making to make light of the examples he used to illustrate it. Whether it was deliberate or you misunderstood is immaterial, I can see why he'd be frustrated.

His point was JD vs DM is, in terms of style, akin to Jackson vs Allen, and that he prefers Allen's style.

Your response to that was, "Pfffft. Mahomes is the best. Them 2 guys are just very good but still better than we've had cuz we suck." He's talking apples vs oranges and you said, "Plums!" and then for some reason, "All of our fruit has sucked for 30 years!"

You didn't disagree. You missed the point. If you want to make a point that has absolutely nothing to do with the post you're quoting, maybe don't quote a post.
I don’t pay attention to who I am quoting half the time. I understood the point. It’s been made multiple times in multiple places, not only in this thread, but in any article when discussing the 2 prospects.

Maye could be Allen.
Daniels could be Jackson.

They are stylistically different. Yeah, no shit?

If I hurt his/her sensibilities (or yours), then my sympathies. Wasn’t my intent.

Calling 2 QB’s “the ultimate”, just seemed inane to me, when neither was named Mahomes.

Anyway, thanks for weighing in
 

Ridley Simon

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this guy hits on a lot of good points. I cannot refute most if it.

Even as a JJ guy, I can’t say I’d be thrilled with him at 2. I think that’s a waste of resources.

Altho is also jeopardizes getting the QB you truly want. It’s a dangerous game to play.

Only way to do something like this, is IF you truly are good with all 4 QB’s, then try and take whomever is left over at 4 (by getting to 4, somehow) plus the assets from moving down.

I was a proponent for this a little while ago, but it’s just not feasible now, I’m afraid it’s too risky.
 

kicksavedave

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"I people this: Outside of Patrick Mahomes, I haven’t coached against someone like this. He’s just very hard to defend. We tried to force him to run it to take it out of his hands. The throws he makes and the timing he has, I thought was second to none. He throws the deep ball extremely accurately. He improved a lot. He’s a really good deep ball thrower with more than above-average arm strength. Those 15-, 20-yard touch throws were better than I thought. He didn’t look like he was that fast, but he just glides and runs by people, and he outruns their angles. Florida wasn’t very good last year but they still had team speed, and even when they had angles on him, he’d run by them. When you eyeball him before the game, he doesn’t look very big, but he’d lower his shoulder and could take punishment."
 

Ridley Simon

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How to tank your draft stock on one easy move.

Ahhh, whoops.

He’s one of those guys that was available at 40 in a lot of mocks. I wasn’t looking for a DT, but was looking at good value then.

Now he’ll fall farther. Might wake him up and make him “happy to be here” re: NFL, and he gets his shit together.

If he’s around at 67 or 78, would be tremendous player value then.
 

ynotcaps

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Ahhh, whoops.

He’s one of those guys that was available at 40 in a lot of mocks. I wasn’t looking for a DT, but was looking at good value then.

Now he’ll fall farther. Might wake him up and make him “happy to be here” re: NFL, and he gets his shit together.

If he’s around at 67 or 78, would be tremendous player value then.
I don't know, he'd have to be able to beat out star 2nd rounder Phildarian Mathis.... :sarcasm:
 

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