Player Discussion: 2024 Vezina Winner Connor Hellebuyck

[Jets4Life]

Helly is worth a good $10,000,000 per season contract. IMO he's just not worth 7 years of that contract. So, some team is going to trade for him and find out in 3 or 4 years it was not a good idea. They will just have to hope he wins it all in those first few years.

Bobrovsky is turning 35 this year, and he is the main reason the Panthers are in the final. ​

 

[gojetsgo]

Why would they be in for a "very rude awakening?" Have the Panthers regretted signing Bobrovsky?

they haven't during these past 2 months but you bet you ass they did before hand and will most likely regret it again

 

[snowkiddin]

yup this is roughly the deal ive been a proponent of. id ask for their 2024 2nd and we'd send back a later pick, so we upgrade our pick by a round+ for taking on the Granlund contract. We could use another top-6er w/ Wheeler likely gone, and Scheifele too. Play Granlund top-6 w/ some combo of ehlers, connor on the wing, and move him perhaps next off-season for picks/prospect.

2023 1st-14th Overall. Pickering is a recent 1st rd pick in the early 20s. so a mid 1st, and another v recent 1st rd prospect (drafted in the early 20s). I know he's LHD but given he was recent drafted he can play a full year in the AHL still and is chomping at the bit like Heinola or Stanley. Speaking of, they'll likely trade Stanley. so it does net equal in prospect on LD. Heinola who knows what happens to him.

PIT gets a Vezina caliber goalie + cap-space to re-sign him if they please. they also could use the space to re-sign Guentzel. importantly, they maximize the remaining of Malkin and Sid's current contracts and get a great goalie to solidify the position after coming off Jarry's inconsistencies (UFA).

Pittsburgh also looking to be the first team to threepeat* since the Islanders in the ‘80s, which would be incredible for Sid and Geno’s legacy.

*Pittsburgh are the defending non-asterisk champions, remember

 

[ps241]

Bobrovsky is turning 35 this year, and he is the main reason the Panthers are in the final. ​

He turned 30 when he was traded to Florida and over the past 4 seasons has gone .900, .906, 913, 901 all while making $10 million a year so basically a total nightmare with a great playoff run for 3 series until the clock struck midnight And he has been below average in 3 of the 4 games in the final so far.

Goalies are voodoo

 

[Jets4Life]

He turned 30 when he was traded to Florida and over the past 4 seasons has gone .900, .906, 913, 901 all while making $10 million a year so basically a total nightmare with a great playoff run for 3 series until the clock struck midnight And he has been below average in 3 of the 4 games in the final so far.

He was excellent in game 3, and above average in game 4...not sure what you are talking about, in regards to the clock struck midnight. He also helped lead Florida to the Presidents Trophy for the first time in franchise history last season.

Perhaps Bobrovsky was not the greatest example. If we look at top 5 goalies throughout their careers, they often cannot be replaced. Montreal is not even a playoff team without Carey Price- who pretty much was responsible for the teams success from 2007-21.

Hellebuyck is just not replaceable. There is zero chance we come out ahead once he is gone.

 

[White Out 902]

I was going to reply to Jets4Life but I see his post was already properly dismantled. And Helley wont get 10 million, he will want 12.

I would pay Helley 10 million for 4 years.

Paying him 12 million for 7 years, which is what he will want, is basically strapping a suicide vest to this teams cap for the next year decade.

 

[ps241]

He was excellent in game 3, and above average in game 4...not sure what you are talking about, in regards to the clock struck midnight. He also helped lead Florida to the Presidents Trophy for the first time in franchise history last season.

Perhaps Bobrovsky was not the greatest example. If we look at top 5 goalies throughout their careers, they often cannot be replaced. Montreal is not even a playoff team without Carey Price- who pretty much was responsible for the teams success from 2007-21.

Hellebuyck is just not replaceable. There is zero chance we come out ahead once he is gone.

I agree Helly is not replaceable. I doubt we ever have one as good as him but that’s life. Sounds like he has chosen to move on. It’s a real shame we didn’t have a better team for his prime years. No matter what his time was going to end at some point. Price was amazing in Montreal until he wasn’t because he aged out due to time and injuries.

The funny thing though is Price has zero cups……Bob has zero although he gave it a go this season against the flow of play he has had since coming to Florida. Vegas will win the cup with patchwork goaltending after losing in the finals with MAF who will go into the hall of fame. Goalies are important but we weren’t doing shit with a prime Helle so I am less scared to turn the page than most. I will miss Helle and like Buff I will have been happy to watch Connor in his prime for 8 seasons.

 

[None]

It’s a real shame we didn’t have a better team for his prime years.

Especially considering the cap value we were getting the last handful of years from him. 9-10 million dollar goalie signed at ~6.1AAV and we were a cap team most of that time and still not really competitive.

 

[cbcwpg]

Bobrovsky is turning 35 this year, and he is the main reason the Panthers are in the final. ​

So? No 30+ year old goalie should be signed to a 7 year deal worth $10,000,000. 4 or 5 years at most....The falloff potential is just too high IMO.

Goalie Bob has 3 more seasons at $10,000,000. I guarantee the Panthers are going to regret everyone of those seasons. In fact , I would be willing to bet that he doesn't finish that deal. He will probably get bought out at some time.

 

[ps241]

So? No 30+ year old goalie should be signed to a 7 year deal worth $10,000,000. 4 or 5 years at most....The falloff potential is just too high IMO.

Goalie Bob has 3 more seasons at $10,000,000. I guarantee the Panthers are going to regret everyone of those seasons. In fact , I would be willing to bet that he doesn't finish that deal. He will probably get bought out at some time.

It’s not just the next 3 seasons they will regret the contract has been brutal since season 1 value wise. This playoff run is masking one of the worst contracts in the NHL value wise.

 

[Ducky10]

He was excellent in game 3, and above average in game 4...not sure what you are talking about, in regards to the clock struck midnight. He also helped lead Florida to the Presidents Trophy for the first time in franchise history last season.

Perhaps Bobrovsky was not the greatest example. If we look at top 5 goalies throughout their careers, they often cannot be replaced. Montreal is not even a playoff team without Carey Price- who pretty much was responsible for the teams success from 2007-21.

Hellebuyck is just not replaceable. There is zero chance we come out ahead once he is gone.

The Jets likely won’t come out ahead as far as a direct replacement in net is concerned, but that doesn’t mean they won’t come out ahead. For every Vezina winning goalie to lead his team to the Stanley Cup, there are just as many that haven’t, including the aforementioned Price. Also consider how many have led their teams to the cup by not even being that good, including Darcy Kuemper last year, winning with a not so stellar .902. He’s not alone.
Some teams can win from a goalie catching lightning in a bottle during the short tournament that the playoffs are. Bob has largely done that this year, just as Fleury almost did back in 17-18. That doesn’t mean you go paying them 10 million a season at that age and at that term in the hopes it might happen. That’s a fools game.

The Jets have gone basically nowhere with a prime Helle, they are very unlikely to go anywhere with a less than prime Helle and a compromised team. While they most certainly won’t come out with a better goaltender by moving him, they could very easily put some key pieces in place that makes them more competitive in the long run.

 

[bumblebeeman]

I was going to reply to Jets4Life but I see his post was already properly dismantled. And Helley wont get 10 million, he will want 12.

I would pay Helley 10 million for 4 years.

Paying him 12 million for 7 years, which is what he will want, is basically strapping a suicide vest to this teams cap for the next year decade.

That's basically what Price got, and I'm not sure how much that contract hurt the team really. And he dragged them to the finals once. It would be hard to argue they'd be better off without him, maybe they would have rebuilt sooner I guess

 

[Jets4Life]

The Jets likely won’t come out ahead as far as a direct replacement in net is concerned, but that doesn’t mean they won’t come out ahead. For every Vezina winning goalie to lead his team to the Stanley Cup, there are just as many that haven’t, including the aforementioned Price. Also consider how many have led their teams to the cup by not even being that good, including Darcy Kuemper last year, winning with a not so stellar .902. He’s not alone.

This has more to do with the strength of the team. We can't expect a goalie to be Ken Dryden (circa 1971), and carry a team, to win the cup. Even Hasek could not do this with the Sabres. He won the cup on a stacked Wings team. Roy had a stacked Avalanche team to play with.

Hellebuyck does not have this luxury, and this is why he is not going to sign with the Jets. He wants to compete on a team that has a chance to win the cup before he retires.

Some teams can win from a goalie catching lightning in a bottle during the short tournament that the playoffs are. Bob has largely done that this year, just as Fleury almost did back in 17-18. That doesn’t mean you go paying them 10 million a season at that age and at that term in the hopes it might happen. That’s a fools game.

Actually, $9.5-10 million is what Hellebuyck will get. That is his market value right now. Tampa Bay has been the best organisation in the NHL going on 10 years, and they signed Andrei Vasilevskiy for $9.5 million over 8 seasons, just a couple of seasons back. Just because we have a delusional fan base (and Winnipeggers are notoriously cheap), who would not want him to earn this much, does not mean at least 20 other teams will be willing to pay up.

Fleury is about the worst example one can use, considering he signed for less, but had amazing seasons with Vegas, led them to the finals in 2018, then outright won the Vezina Trophy at age 36.

The Jets have gone basically nowhere with a prime Helle, they are very unlikely to go anywhere with a less than prime Helle and a compromised team. While they most certainly won’t come out with a better goaltender by moving him, they could very easily put some key pieces in place that makes them more competitive in the long run.

No offence, but I think this post just validates how out of touch most of the fans are, when it comes to Hellebuyck. He is the main reason why the team has been competitive since 2017. We are not going to find a replacement goalie even close to the skill level of him. The Jets are done being a playoff team with Helle gone, and may not make the playoffs for a good 3-4 years now.

Get ready for another Steve Mason or Pavelec 2.0. The Jets are years away from developing an adequate NHL goalie. Hellebuyck is the one Winnipeg Jet, who receives near unanimous praise from the main boards.

 

[Jets4Life]

I was going to reply to Jets4Life but I see his post was already properly dismantled. And Helley wont get 10 million, he will want 12.

Hellebuyck is not going to get $12 million. No goaltender in the NHL makes over $10.5 million.

I have never understood your outright hatred for him.Did he shoot your dog or something? Even in his Vezina season of 2019-20, you were calling for the Jets to trade him. You must feel great now that he is finally leaving.

Paying him 12 million for 7 years, which is what he will want, is basically strapping a suicide vest to this teams cap for the next year decade.

Holy hyperbole, Batman.

At the absolute most, Hellebuyck would sign for $10 million a season. Considering that is not even $2 million more than what others like Wheeler make, that is hardly "strapping suicide vest to a teams cap for the next decade," especially since Helle has been the MVP of the Jets since 2017.

Once again, stating the Hellebuyck will want $12 million, just reaffirms your hatred of Hellebuyck going back years, and does not vibe with reality. Well since you hated Helle so much, you finally get your wish.

Hellebuyck is NOT going to be the highest paid NHL player (tied with McDavid), as you have kept stating over the last two months. Nearly every single post you have made over the years about Hellebuyck, going back to the 2018 playoffs, has not only been wrong, but almost incredible. I actually get a kick at looking through some of the things you have posted about Hellebuyck over the years. It's great comic relief.

 

[kanadalainen]

I would pay Helley 10 million for 4 years.

This comment is reasonable and may reflect some truth.

 

[Ducky10]

This has more to do with the strength of the team. We can't expect a goalie to be Ken Dryden (circa 1971), and carry a team, to win the cup. Even Hasek could not do this with the Sabres. He won the cup on a stacked Wings team. Roy had a stacked Avalanche team to play with.

Hellebuyck does not have this luxury, and this is why he is not going to sign with the Jets. He wants to compete on a team that has a chance to win the cup before he retires.



Actually, $9.5-10 million is what Hellebuyck will get. That is his market value right now. Tampa Bay has been the best organisation in the NHL going on 10 years, and they signed Andrei Vasilevskiy for $9.5 million over 8 seasons, just a couple of seasons back. Just because we have a delusional fan base (and Winnipeggers are notoriously cheap), who would not want him to earn this much, does not mean at least 20 other teams will be willing to pay up.

Fleury is about the worst example one can use, considering he signed for less, but had amazing seasons with Vegas, led them to the finals in 2018, then outright won the Vezina Trophy at age 36.


No offence, but I think this post just validates how out of touch most of the fans are, when it comes to Hellebuyck. He is the main reason why the team has been competitive since 2017. We are not going to find a replacement goalie even close to the skill level of him. The Jets are done being a playoff team with Helle gone, and may not make the playoffs for a good 3-4 years now.

Get ready for another Steve Mason or Pavelec 2.0. The Jets are years away from developing an adequate NHL goalie. Hellebuyck is the one Winnipeg Jet, who receives near unanimous praise from the main boards.

It’s almost as if you didn’t read my post at all. None of what I said was out of touch or a slight on Helle. I categorically said the Jets will not come out ahead on a direct replacement for Helle. I’m well aware he has been this teams single best player since 2017, and you won’t find many bigger supporters of him on this board than me. The overriding point still remains, it does not benefit this team in the short term or the long term to not only commit those kinds of dollars to him, and to not derive the potential assets for him considering the position they are in.
Yes, a large reason for their lack of success with Helle may have been strength of team, and that’s going to get better over the next 3-4 years? If he hasn’t been the saviour with this compromised team, what makes you think he will be with what’s likely around the corner? Vasilevsky had a much deeper team than the Jets in front of him, who’s to say another goaltender couldn’t have also backstopped that team to the same result?
My point on Fleury wasn’t about dollars. It was about the randomness of NHL goaltending and its tendency to run hot at the right times. Which is what we saw with Fleury and what we were seeing with Bob at the time. Aiden Hill just backstopped the Knights to the Cup. What does that tell you.
You seem to be under the belief a Vezina caliber goalie, being paid as one of your top salaries is required to win a cup. It’s clearly not.
Trading Helle allows the Jets to potentially build more depth and put together a stronger team. Maybe one that can win with a lesser goaltender, as other teams have proven is possible.
Keeping him ties up a lot of dollars, for a long period of time, but more importantly does less to bring in others players required to make the team more competitive, and just maintains the status quo. A bubble team at best making the playoffs and little else.
Helle is a great goalie. Yes he’ll get 9.5-10 million. Does that make you happy? It’s all you seem to want to hear. It’s not really the point of the discussion though.

 

[DRW204]

well put @Ducky10
Helle is the closest thing we have to a generation talent. 3 Vezina nominations+1W puts him in all-time category, and he still has many years to go.

fact is, our gm/team failed to win or build a legit contender with this high of a caliber goalie through his prime, at a pretty solid deal vs what he is about to get paid. he is still one of the highest paid goalies, but in the grand scheme of things 6M for what he brings is good value.

i am sure the Jets still want him to sign him. their history of goaltending outside of him has been a 0.900 sv%, and it seems like they really want to avoid a rebuild. however, given the high mileage, the impending huge cap-hit and his eventual decline... idk how this team improves past a middling 90ish pt team especially considering your two top-6Cs are likely gone with no surefire heir apparents, and another serviceable top-6 RW.

imo this team really needs to rebuild. if they keep Helle.... what are the chances they get 2 replacement players greater on-ice impact than PLD and Scheifele in the short-term? and then consider Wheeler - whatever you may think of him and his leadership ice he's still a v solid producer - demelo and dillon both being UFA-1s. the Jets will likely not be able to address all this through UFA. maaaybe via trades although im less bullish on that.

 

[Daximus]

well put @Ducky10
Helle is the closest thing we have to a generation talent. 3 Vezina nominations+1W puts him in all-time category, and he still has many years to go.

fact is, our gm/team failed to win or build a legit contender with this high of a caliber goalie through his prime, at a pretty solid deal vs what he is about to get paid. he is still one of the highest paid goalies, but in the grand scheme of things 6M for what he brings is good value.

i am sure the Jets still want him to sign him. their history of goaltending outside of him has been a 0.900 sv%, and it seems like they really want to avoid a rebuild. however, given the high mileage, the impending huge cap-hit and his eventual decline... idk how this team improves past a middling 90ish pt team especially considering your two top-6Cs are likely gone with no surefire heir apparents, and another serviceable top-6 RW.

imo this team really needs to rebuild. if they keep Helle.... what are the chances they get 2 replacement players greater on-ice impact than PLD and Scheifele in the short-term? and then consider Wheeler - whatever you may think of him and his leadership ice he's still a v solid producer - demelo and dillon both being UFA-1s. the Jets will likely not be able to address all this through UFA. maaaybe via trades although im less bullish on that.

This is what I've been saying all along. Trying to remain competitive while moving out all these pieces isn't realistic at all. Chicago will likely be competitive quicker than we will and they went full scorched earth.

 

[Jets4Life]

My point on Fleury wasn’t about dollars. It was about the randomness of NHL goaltending and its tendency to run hot at the right times. Which is what we saw with Fleury and what we were seeing with Bob at the time. Aiden Hill just backstopped the Knights to the Cup. What does that tell you.
You seem to be under the belief a Vezina caliber goalie, being paid as one of your top salaries is required to win a cup. It’s clearly not.

It tells me that Vegas really lucked out. This was the exception, not the norm. Looking back for 30+ years, teams that made it to the cup final often have elite goalies backing them up. For every Binnington (who had one great season), there are a handful of keepers like Roy, Hasek, Price, Brodeur, Fleury, etc.

If Brossoit had not become injured, there is a good chance Vegas would have lost to the Oilers. Adin Hill had an incredible run, and good for him, but like Binnington, it's the exception to the rule.

Trading Helle allows the Jets to potentially build more depth and put together a stronger team. Maybe one that can win with a lesser goaltender, as other teams have proven is possible.
Keeping him ties up a lot of dollars, for a long period of time, but more importantly does less to bring in others players required to make the team more competitive, and just maintains the status quo. A bubble team at best making the playoffs and little else.

If they Jets become a better team without Hellebuyck, that would be great. However, there is almost no chance that happens. Hellebuyck is the Jets MVP. We can make the same argument about giving Austin Matthews $12 million to tie him up. The fact is the Leafs are a better team with him on the roster. That is all that matters.

Helle is a great goalie. Yes he’ll get 9.5-10 million. Does that make you happy? It’s all you seem to want to hear. It’s not really the point of the discussion though.

Yes it would make me very happy, if he resigned with the Jets. We have absolutely nobody to replace him in our system. Unfortunately, I am just being realistic, The Jets are going to be a much poorer team without him.

 

[Jets4Life]

This is what I've been saying all along. Trying to remain competitive while moving out all these pieces isn't realistic at all. Chicago will likely be competitive quicker than we will and they went full scorched earth.

Chicago will likely be more competitive since they are in a big US market, and players want to go there, so they have an easier job of trading for players, especially now that they landed Bedard.

As much as it hurts to say this, Winnipeg will always be a draft and develop team, since hardly any NHL players wants to come here. I've heard even Mark Stone (who is a local boy), refused to consider Winnipeg, in order to go to Las Vegas, where there is no income tax, the weather is better, and the pressure from fans and the media is relatively non-existent.

 

[roccerfeller]

Trading Helle allows the Jets to potentially build more depth and put together a stronger team. Maybe one that can win with a lesser goaltender, as other teams have proven is possible.
Keeping him ties up a lot of dollars, for a long period of time, but more importantly does less to bring in others players required to make the team more competitive, and just maintains the status quo. A bubble team at best making the playoffs and little else.

This is the big point for me

Helle is my favourite Jet 2.0 outside of Buff and I wish he were a Jet for his whole career.

But this is a unique opportunity. It is going to be a hard pill to swallow but this team needs to turn a corner and Helle/his agent has suggested they will not be back. We don’t have a choice, but the bolded point is why it’s a blessing in disguise

well put @Ducky10
Helle is the closest thing we have to a generation talent. 3 Vezina nominations+1W puts him in all-time category, and he still has many years to go.

fact is, our gm/team failed to win or build a legit contender with this high of a caliber goalie through his prime, at a pretty solid deal vs what he is about to get paid. he is still one of the highest paid goalies, but in the grand scheme of things 6M for what he brings is good value.

i am sure the Jets still want him to sign him. their history of goaltending outside of him has been a 0.900 sv%, and it seems like they really want to avoid a rebuild. however, given the high mileage, the impending huge cap-hit and his eventual decline... idk how this team improves past a middling 90ish pt team especially considering your two top-6Cs are likely gone with no surefire heir apparents, and another serviceable top-6 RW.

I am sûre the Jets tried to re sign him and I am sure they know how important he is, but by the time we heard the news over the weekend that the “ship had sailed”, it looks like those discussions were long gone

It’s got to be a kick in the gut when all he wants is to win a cup but elects to not extend

 

[roccerfeller]

I've heard even Mark Stone (who is a local boy), refused to consider Winnipeg, in order to go to Las Vegas, where there is no income tax, the weather is better, and the pressure from fans and the media is relatively non-existent.

None of us know for sure.
But I think his relationship with Kelly McCrimmin played a big role in his desire to go to Vegas

 

[Jets4Life]

None of us know for sure.
But I think his relationship with Kelly McCrimmin played a big role in his desire to go to Vegas

Perhaps..

However, we can't deny that it's entirely conceivable that Chevy has shopped around players like PLD, Wheeler, and Scheifele. Word has it that many of the deals fell apart, since the players the Jets wanted refused to waive their NTC, since they did not want to play here.

I can understand the posters who want to make the best of a bad situation, in regards to Hellebuyck. However, saying the Jets will be a better team without him, or that it "frees cap space," is utterly ridiculous, and not how the league works.

Helle is a 30 year old goalie, still in his prime, who is a workhorse, without any significant injuries his entire playing career. The market value for him would likely be $9.5 million for 7-8 years. Trading Connor McDavid frees up cap space too, but it certainly would not be in the Oilers best interest to do so.

 

[White Out 902]

This comment is reasonable and may reflect some truth.

Its a completely reasonable point of view but there's a lot of hysterical pearl clutching going on.

 

[White Out 902]

Hellebuyck is not going to get $12 million. No goaltender in the NHL makes over $10.5 million.

I have never understood your outright hatred for him.Did he shoot your dog or something? Even in his Vezina season of 2019-20, you were calling for the Jets to trade him. You must feel great now that he is finally leaving.



Holy hyperbole, Batman.

At the absolute most, Hellebuyck would sign for $10 million a season. Considering that is not even $2 million more than what others like Wheeler make, that is hardly "strapping suicide vest to a teams cap for the next decade," especially since Helle has been the MVP of the Jets since 2017.

Once again, stating the Hellebuyck will want $12 million, just reaffirms your hatred of Hellebuyck going back years, and does not vibe with reality. Well since you hated Helle so much, you finally get your wish.

Hellebuyck is NOT going to be the highest paid NHL player (tied with McDavid), as you have kept stating over the last two months. Nearly every single post you have made over the years about Hellebuyck, going back to the 2018 playoffs, has not only been wrong, but almost incredible. I actually get a kick at looking through some of the things you have posted about Hellebuyck over the years. It's great comic relief.

-You dont have a crystal ball. You dont know what Helley will sign for. I think it's very likely a team will sign him for over 10 million. But please, let me know what the winning lottery tickets will be
-You keep saying I hate Helley. Like a lot. "Hatred". I think he's overrated to a comical degree and a playoff choke artist
-You claim to have read all my helley posts then in the same post say you don't know why I "hate him". Again, I dont hate him, but, I'm pretty consistent in pointing out 2018's choke job as why I dislike him. The 2018 Jets should have had a ticket punched to the Stanley Cup but we ran into a hot MAF and Helley was hot garbage. This is probably the 10th time I've posted this, maybe bookmark this page under the "White Out" tab of your bookmarks

If Chevy handles the situation right, this could be a great thing for our team. We can cash out on an asset that has huge value and will continue to lose value year after year after this (go ahead and boomark this post for that too). This team needs a major league shake up and our Gm is risk adverse. This is finally going to force his hand and improve our team for the long run.