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Blue Jays GDT: 2024 v2 | Thu, Apr 25 | @ KC | 2pm ET/11am PT | Berrios vs Ragans

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Discoverer said:
He's still managed to catch runners at roughly a league average rate for his career, though.
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Interesting I never would have guessed that while watching him last season and a little this year.

Anthrax442 said:
Harder and harder to swallow that trade
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It’s certainly looking absolutely horrible right now. I’m sure someone will come in here and say what great defence he plays in the outfield though.

fancy lad said:
Are you kidding about the baserunning? He seems above average at that aspect. Had a great instance of it last night.

I want Varsho to succeed so i'd rather prop him up than put him down. He has the tools and the work ethic to be a solid player. I thought he was good yesterday.
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You’re telling me Kirk is a good base runner?
 
Can we get above .500 today? Be a decent start considering we are the worst offensive team in the league.
 
Suntouchable13 said:
I know, but we also need him to hit a little. I don’t like what I am seeing of him at the plate so far. very little hard contact, and everything on the ground. It’s fine if we had a murderer’s row for a lineup, but we don’t. I really like him and want him to start hitting much better, like we all know he can.
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The good thing is, it's still Early. 3pm start today
 
KapG said:
Interesting I never would have guessed that while watching him last season and a little this year.
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In his career, he's caught 21% of attempted steals, while league average has been 23%. So a little below average, but close enough to be fine.

This year, he's caught 4 of 10 so far, so he's off to a great start.
 
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Discoverer said:
In his career, he's caught 21% of attempted steals, while league average has been 23%. So a little below average, but close enough to be fine.

This year, he's caught 4 of 10 so far, so he's off to a great start.
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What kind of percentages are we looking at for the guys at the top? I know I could go digging but hoping maybe you have an idea
 
KapG said:
What kind of percentages are we looking at for the guys at the top? I know I could go digging but hoping maybe you have an idea
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The top percentile throwers are typically in the 30-40% CS range, with elite being 40%+. Realmuto for instance has caught anywhere from 22% to 47% over the course of a full season. 22% being last season of course, which was a notable down year for quite a few catchers (Realmuto, Raleigh, Maldonado, Rutschman, Kirk, Murphy, etc.) likely due to the new rules and base sizes.

Only guy that I can see consistently hit 30%+ in this recent era has been Yan Gomes. Moreno certainly has the potential to do that as well, while also being elite at blocking. What he struggles at is pitch framing which is slightly below average, like Kirk's throwing. So essentially both players have 2/3 of the defensive elements at an elite level with another one lagging behind.
 
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Eyedea said:
The top percentile throwers are typically in the 30-40% CS range, with elite being 40%+. Realmuto for instance has caught anywhere from 22% to 47% over the course of a full season. 22% being last season of course, which was a notable down year for quite a few catchers (Realmuto, Raleigh, Maldonado, Rutschman, Kirk, Murphy, etc.) likely due to the new rules and base sizes.

Only guy that I can see consistently hit 30%+ in this recent era has been Yan Gomes. Moreno certainly has the potential to do that as well, while also being elite at blocking. What he struggles at is pitch framing which is slightly below average, like Kirk's throwing. So essentially both players have 2/3 of the defensive elements at an elite level with another one lagging behind.
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One thing that has to be mentioned about Kirk's throwing.

Last year, he gave up 68 steals, but 12 of them were with Manoah on the mound and 7 were with Romano on the mound (1 CS with each pitcher) (neither pitcher did anything to hold guys on).

He caught 21% of would-be base stealers outside of those two pitchers.

This is only looking at the two most egregious examples, but the Jays have a handful of pitchers who are terrible at giving the catcher a chance.
 
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Bjindaho said:
One thing that has to be mentioned about Kirk's throwing.

Last year, he gave up 68 steals, but 12 of them were with Manoah on the mound and 7 were with Romano on the mound (1 CS with each pitcher) (neither pitcher did anything to hold guys on).

He caught 21% of would-be base stealers outside of those two pitchers.

This is only looking at the two most egregious examples, but the Jays have a handful of pitchers who are terrible at giving the catcher a chance.
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For sure, plus a bit of his own doing with his subpar pop time. Regardless I think Kirk's arm might be average at best, but I don't really consider him a complete liability when it comes to stopping the running game, especially since he's so good at blocking balls in the dirt. Both Jansen and Kirk have had their numbers impacted by Gausman as well.

Kirk caught around 33% base stealers last year when Berrios and Bassitt were on the mound.
 
Bjindaho said:
One thing that has to be mentioned about Kirk's throwing.

Last year, he gave up 68 steals, but 12 of them were with Manoah on the mound and 7 were with Romano on the mound (1 CS with each pitcher) (neither pitcher did anything to hold guys on).

He caught 21% of would-be base stealers outside of those two pitchers.

This is only looking at the two most egregious examples, but the Jays have a handful of pitchers who are terrible at giving the catcher a chance.
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Yeah, it would be nice to have a catcher who can throw guys out even when they get a great jump, but pitchers holding runners has been an issue the last few years. I swear most of the time when a runner takes off it feels like the catcher never even had a chance.
 
Discoverer said:
Yeah, it would be nice to have a catcher who can throw guys out even when they get a great jump, but pitchers holding runners has been an issue the last few years. I swear most of the time when a runner takes off it feels like the catcher never even had a chance.
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Manoah had a period where he released the ball at exactly 1 second left almost every single pitch which led to the massive numbers against.

Romano just refuses to throw to 1st.

Kikuchi had an absolutely terrible pick off move (to the point where the Jays have actively worked with him on it).

Gausman has a slow delivery (and has been known to throw the ball at the same timing repeatedly).
 
shaner8989 said:
Can we get above .500 today? Be a decent start considering we are the worst offensive team in the league.
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I don't even know why I bother replying to this stuff, but we're 18th of 30 teams in terms of OPS and 20th of 30 teams in runs.

Offense has been slightly below-average despite facing three of the toughest pitching staffs in MLB on the road to start the season.
 
jays.hitting.april.10.2024.png


Varsho zero RBI with 34 AB.
Kiermaier 11K, .107 ave.
 
MS said:
I don't even know why I bother replying to this stuff, but we're 18th of 30 teams in terms of OPS and 20th of 30 teams in runs.

Offense has been slightly below-average despite facing three of the toughest pitching staffs in MLB on the road to start the season.
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Below average or even average is not where you want to be at though. If you want to win a WS you kind of want to be top 10. Last year Jays were just average in run scored (14th) and this is what ultimately got them eliminated in playoffs. Jays still need more power at 5th and 6th. It might come internally by Schneider playing more and Jansen being finally healthy but it wont come from the other guys i don't think so.
 
HamiltonNHL said:
Guerrero Jr. playing replacement level ball through 12 games.

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12
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Not great but it's too long of a season as a fan to get in the dumps about guys 1/16th through the year, for me personally. Similar to having a bad first or second outing as a pitcher. Too small of a sample size after just returning home and getting your bags unpacked. Guys barely got to see the renovations and have a stall at Rogers Center yet.
 
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LaP said:
Below average or even average is not where you want to be at though. If you want to win a WS you kind of want to be top 10. Last year Jays were just average in run scored (14th) and this is what ultimately got them eliminated in playoffs. Jays still need more power at 5th and 6th. It might come internally by Schneider playing more and Jansen being finally healthy but it wont come from the other guys i don't think so.
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Oh, obviously. It hasn't been good enough and scoring runs is obviously a concern.

But how bad it is always gets blown out of proportion. Last year's 'terrible' offense was above-average in almost every metric.
 
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