2024 NHL Draft: WE DID IT, CELEBRINI IS OURS!!!

[CaptainShark]

Back to the Pens pick: I am really confused which rules apply to that pick. A few days ago, a comment by Shayna Goldman was posted that insinuated, that the 2024 pick could not be traded. She said she thinks the Pens will/should waive protection cause they need a pick to trade for immediate help. From that I deducted that the 2024 pick was not tradable, as her comment wouldn’t make any sense otherwise and I stated as much in here. People seemed to agree (without naming another source or really going into detail). I listened to the Athletic hockey show this week and they talked about that pick in the opposite way, stating that the Pens would keep it to trade it for immediate help.

Can anyone clarify?

 

[one2gamble]

I don't know why it couldn't be traded because they still have their 25

 

[CaptainShark]

I don't know why it couldn't be traded because they still have their 25

Could be part of the protection-clause.

 

[Jargon]

I suspect if the Pens pick like 9th and decide to use that to get a prospect / trade him for an upgrade, they’re going to greatly regret it. I just can’t see them being much better next year.

That said, I continue to just want their 11th this year ‘cause who knows, bird in hand, etc.

 

[Shark Finn]

I suspect if the Pens pick like 9th and decide to use that to get a prospect / trade him for an upgrade, they’re going to greatly regret it. I just can’t see them being much better next year.

That said, I continue to just want their 11th this year ‘cause who knows, bird in hand, etc.

I'm starting to favor this option too, even if next years draft is supposedly better. We are hopefully going to have a top-5 pick and another first later in the round there anyway.

 

[Stewie Griffin]

The Pens draft thread is comical. I wish our franchise was as lucky to get talent as them...they are so optimistic on getting a top-5 pick (which I don't think they realize unless they win the lottery (again wish I was that lucky to think that optimistic) they can't pick higher than 8th most likely). Even then, they're praying on guys like Demidov, Lindstrom, etc. to both fall to them and discussing whether they are NHL ready.

They're exactly where we were in 2020ish and funny enough Doug Wilson is there as an advisor to Dubas. Their next couple years could be just like us from 2020-2022. Boring.

 

[WSS11]

I suspect if the Pens pick like 9th and decide to use that to get a prospect / trade him for an upgrade, they’re going to greatly regret it. I just can’t see them being much better next year.

That said, I continue to just want their 11th this year ‘cause who knows, bird in hand, etc.

I don’t think you can go wrong with either viewpoint. 11th pick this year nets us a solid prospect but I think the pens have the potential to absolutely nose dive next season like we did the year we gave OTT a top 3 pick.

 

[Jargon]

I don’t think you can go wrong with either viewpoint. 11th pick this year nets us a solid prospect but I think the pens have the potential to absolutely nose dive next season like we did the year we gave OTT a top 3 pick.

Yeah, I’m open to either but ultimately impatient.

 

[Barrie22]

If we end up getting Celebrini this year, it gives us even more reason to finish last so it does not count towards the 2 lottery wins in 5 years.

Keep the option open so we can potentially get Gavin McKenna in 2026. Who just put up the 2nd best 16 year old season in the WHL only behind Bedard.

 

[StanleyCup2035]

If we end up getting Celebrini this year, it gives us even more reason to finish last so it does not count towards the 2 lottery wins in 5 years.

Keep the option open so we can potentially get Gavin McKenna in 2026. Who just put up the 2nd best 16 year old season in the WHL only behind Bedard.

Gavin McKenna is Bedard's cousin (not blood cousin, but my marriage...but still).

 

[Gecklund]

If we end up getting Celebrini this year, it gives us even more reason to finish last so it does not count towards the 2 lottery wins in 5 years.

Keep the option open so we can potentially get Gavin McKenna in 2026. Who just put up the 2nd best 16 year old season in the WHL only behind Bedard.

Feels like there’s a very common misconception around here about this lottery win rule. If we win the lottery it still counts as a win. The only way we pick first and it doesn’t count towards a lottery win is if someone past 11 wins the first lottery.

 

[Cas]

Feels like there’s a very common misconception around here about this lottery win rule. If we win the lottery it still counts as a win. The only way we pick first and it doesn’t count towards a lottery win is if someone past 11 wins the first lottery.

"No single team can advance in the draft order by reason of winning a Lottery Draw more than two times in any five-year period. This limitation will not affect a club’s ability to retain its presumptive draft position in any Draft Lottery, nor would it preclude the possibility of the club moving down in draft order to the extent other clubs advance by reason of winning the Lottery Draws. For purposes of clarity, the limitation would attach to the team, not the specific pick."

It is permitted for the Sharks to finish 32nd for five years in a row, and pick 1st overall for five years in a row, by virtue of winning the draft lottery five years in a row.

What we could not do is move up in the draft by virtue of a lottery win more than twice within a five year period.

 

[Barrie22]

Feels like there’s a very common misconception around here about this lottery win rule. If we win the lottery it still counts as a win. The only way we pick first and it doesn’t count towards a lottery win is if someone past 11 wins the first lottery.

"No single team can advance in the draft order by reason of winning a Lottery Draw more than two times in any five-year period. This limitation will not affect a club’s ability to retain its presumptive draft position in any Draft Lottery"

That is false, if you finish last and win the lottery staying at 1, doesn't count towards the 2 in 5 limitations. Same goes for finishing last losing the 1st draw and being bumped down to 2nd and then winning the 2nd draw. You have to actually move up in the draft for it to count.

 

[Gecklund]

"No single team can advance in the draft order by reason of winning a Lottery Draw more than two times in any five-year period. This limitation will not affect a club’s ability to retain its presumptive draft position in any Draft Lottery, nor would it preclude the possibility of the club moving down in draft order to the extent other clubs advance by reason of winning the Lottery Draws. For purposes of clarity, the limitation would attach to the team, not the specific pick."

It is permitted for the Sharks to finish 32nd for five years in a row, and pick 1st overall for five years in a row, by virtue of winning the draft lottery five years in a row.

What we could not do is move up in the draft by virtue of a lottery win more than twice within a five year period.

"No single team can advance in the draft order by reason of winning a Lottery Draw more than two times in any five-year period. This limitation will not affect a club’s ability to retain its presumptive draft position in any Draft Lottery"

That is false, if you finish last and win the lottery staying at 1, doesn't count towards the 2 in 5 limitations. Same goes for finishing last losing the 1st draw and being bumped down to 2nd and then winning the 2nd draw. You have to actually move up in the draft for it to count.

“the NHL also decreed that a team cannot win the lottery more than twice in a five-year span (starting with the 2022 lottery).”

Let’s be honest though Chicago is going to win this year and suddenly the rule will cease to exist so it doesn’t matter.

 

[Barrie22]

“the NHL also decreed that a team cannot win the lottery more than twice in a five-year span (starting with the 2022 lottery).”

Finishing last doesn't actually count as one of those 5 wins though. If San jose or any other team in the league sucks for 30 years straight and get lucky for all 30 of those years, they could still win the lottery 30 years straight.

 

[Gecklund]

Finishing last doesn't actually count as one of those 5 wins though. If San jose or any other team in the league sucks for 30 years straight and get lucky for all 30 of those years, they could still win the lottery 30 years straight.

But I don’t think that’s true. I think that’s the HFboards idea of the rule. Everything I’ve seen states lottery wins.

NHL Draft Lottery changes announced for 2021 | NHL.com

Drawings reduced to two; limits added in 2022 for teams that win, move up

www.nhl.com

-- Teams will be restricted from moving up more than 10 spots if it wins one of the lottery draws.
-- Teams cannot win the lottery more than twice in a five-year period. Wins in the lottery prior to 2022 will not be counted toward this total.

Copy and pasted from that nhl.com article. Everything I’ve seen states winning the lottery which the last place team getting first overall without someone in picks 12-16 moving up is winning the lottery.

 

[Barrie22]

But I don’t think that’s true. I think that’s the HFboards idea of the rule. Everything I’ve seen states lottery wins.

NHL Draft Lottery changes announced for 2021 | NHL.com

Drawings reduced to two; limits added in 2022 for teams that win, move up

www.nhl.com

-- Teams will be restricted from moving up more than 10 spots if it wins one of the lottery draws.
-- Teams cannot win the lottery more than twice in a five-year period. Wins in the lottery prior to 2022 will not be counted toward this total.

Copy and pasted from that nhl.com article. Everything I’ve seen states winning the lottery which the last place team getting first overall without someone in picks 12-16 moving up is winning the lottery.

Draft Lottery | NHL Records

Explore the results, odds and formats for the NHL Draft Lottery, first instituted in 1995.

records.nhl.com

Same thing, just a more in-depth explanation of the exact rules.

 

[sharski]

Yeah if they're not gonna do the draft order based on post-elimination points thing just yeet the entire lottery process and live with the consequences imo

 

[jMoneyBrah]

But I don’t think that’s true. I think that’s the HFboards idea of the rule. Everything I’ve seen states lottery wins.

NHL Draft Lottery changes announced for 2021 | NHL.com

Drawings reduced to two; limits added in 2022 for teams that win, move up

www.nhl.com

-- Teams will be restricted from moving up more than 10 spots if it wins one of the lottery draws.
-- Teams cannot win the lottery more than twice in a five-year period. Wins in the lottery prior to 2022 will not be counted toward this total.

Copy and pasted from that nhl.com article. Everything I’ve seen states winning the lottery which the last place team getting first overall without someone in picks 12-16 moving up is winning the lottery.

It seems pretty clear that “advance” means gain a better pick than a team’s presumptive position.

… No single team can advance in the draft order by reason of winning a Lottery Draw more than two times in any five-year period...

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Let's say we lose out on Celebrini to Chicago and the Pens elect to keep their top ten protected pick this year. If we're at two or three, do we try to trade back with a team that has two 1st rounders? Right now, that'd be teams like Anaheim (3+23), Ottawa (5+32), Montreal (7+28), Calgary (12+29), and Philadelphia (18+30).

 

[Gecklund]

Draft Lottery | NHL Records

Explore the results, odds and formats for the NHL Draft Lottery, first instituted in 1995.

records.nhl.com

Same thing, just a more in-depth explanation of the exact rules.

The example they gave talking about attached to the specific team not the pick is what still leads me to believe we’d need someone from 12-16 to win for it to not count towards the lottery wins.

 

[Cas]

Yeah if they're not gonna do the draft order based on post-elimination points thing just yeet the entire lottery process and live with the consequences imo

The post-elimination points idea is just awful and the league should just do reverse standings order.

But yes, the more detail you actually get from the NHL about how the lottery win limitation works, the more you can see that winning the lottery as the #32 team doesn't count against the limitation.

Let's say we lose out on Celebrini to Chicago and the Pens elect to keep their top ten protected pick this year. If we're at two or three, do we try to trade back with a team that has two 1st rounders? Right now, that'd be teams like Anaheim (3+23), Ottawa (5+32), Montreal (7+28), Calgary (12+29), and Philadelphia (18+30).

Anaheim would be the only one I would even consider in this case, and frankly I think it's better to just pick the BPA.

 

[Barrie22]

The example they gave talking about attached to the specific team not the pick is what still leads me to believe we’d need someone from 12-16 to win for it to not count towards the lottery wins.

This limitation will not affect a club’s ability to retain its presumptive draft position in any Draft Lottery"

That is the main line you need to read, presumptive draft position is staying last when you finished last.

 

[Gecklund]

This limitation will not affect a club’s ability to retain its presumptive draft position in any Draft Lottery"

That is the main line you need to read, presumptive draft position is staying last when you finished last.

This will be my last message on the topic because I don’t think either of us are changing the other’s mind.

“For purposes of clarity, the limitation would attach to the team, not the specific pick.”

This is what I think is the key line. You still need to win the lottery to get the first pick.

 

[jMoneyBrah]

The example they gave talking about attached to the specific team not the pick is what still leads me to believe we’d need someone from 12-16 to win for it to not count towards the lottery wins.

Bruh, this is not that hard…

No single team will be able to advance in the Draft order by reason of winning a Lottery Draw more than two (2) times in any five (5) year period. This limitation will not affect a Club’s ability to retain its presumptive Draft position in any Draft Lottery, nor would it preclude the possibility of the Club moving down in Draft Order to the extent other Clubs advance by reason of winning the Lottery Draws. For purposes of clarity, the limitation would attach to the team, not the specific pick.

By way of example, if a Club were to win the first Lottery Draw as the 7th Worst-Finishing Club in Year 1 (thereby earning the First Overall Selection in the succeeding Draft), and the second Lottery Draw as the 13th Worst-Finishing Club in Year 3 (thereby earning the Third Overall Selection in the succeeding Draft), that Club would no longer be eligible to benefit by winning a Lottery Draw in either of Year 4 or Year 5, and would not be able to benefit again by winning the Draft Lottery (or either of the Draft Lottery Draws) until Year 6 at the earliest.

1. No team can “advance” in the draft by way of lottery wins more than twice in a five year period; “advance” meaning they cannot receive a better position by way of the lottery than they held previous to the lottery more than twice in five years. If a team finish #1 and wins the lottery it would not be counted for purpose of this limitation as that team did not advance by way of the lottery.
2. This is confirmed with the “This limitation will not affect a Club’s ability to retain its presumptive Draft position in any Draft Lottery” language, meaning the 5 year limitation doesn’t prevent a team from receiving the #1 overall pick if that was their presumptive draft position prior to the lottery, and they or a team starting from #11 or higher wins the lottery.
3. It is interesting that the limitation is attached to the team and not the pick. So if Chicago again finishes better than last, and again wins the lottery to advance to the first pick, for the next three years they would be ineligible to advance via the lottery; but any team receiving Chicago’s 1st via trade during that period WOULD be able to advance (barring their own current status under theses limitations)