Jason MacIsaac
Registered User
I’m surprised fans want to trade back given what our roster looks like. I’d prefer the best chance at a super star than go with analytics and the best chance at two serviceable players.
lol what?I feel like we'd both agree the Markstrom trade was a material overpay and outright dangerous for a team that just missed the playoffs.
A lot of draft experts have him outside the top 10.What are people’s thoughts on Brandseeg-Nygaard at #10?
At first glance his skill set looks like an incredible fit, but curious as to what the consensus is on him as a prospect compared to the others.
As I said a couple of days ago, this is not something you do. If you’re trading down, you can bet there’s a pretty good chance the player you wanted won’t be there still. You certainly can’t count on it and say not at the expense of the BPA.
If there’s a player you really want you take them.
I'll be surprised if we actually end up picking at #10. The Markstrom move seems to signal that Fitz is in win now mode, and he's made some comments that seem to back that up as well. I think Fitz wants a top 6 forward in his mid 20's or so with a few years left on his deal to add to the mix. Now maybe nobody will bite, but I think that is his preference for sure.
As I also said in my post a couple of days ago there are only two good reasons to trade back. You’ve been offered value that’s too good to pass up or there is multiple prospects you view equally and you are guaranteed to get one still.Teams typically only trade down if they're reasonably certain that they player they would have taken originally would still be there. One I recall was St. Louis in 2007, they badly wanted Jakub Voracek but when they couldn't get him, their next target was Lars Eller. They figured they could trade back from #9 to #13 and still get him. I remember them posting draft floor video when they were deciding what to do and I remember one of their scouts said something like "Carolina's all over [Brandon] Sutter at #11."
And there can be risk, my go to cautionary tale was Anaheim in 2008. The story I heard was that they really liked Erik Karlsson who was a late riser that draft year. They thought they could trade back and recoup some picks to refill their prospect cupboard. They eventually turned #12 into #17, #35, and #39 which seems like decent "value." But then Ottawa traded up from #18 to #15 to snipe Karlsson. Anaheim ended up with Jake Gardiner, Nicolas Deschamps, and Eric O'Dell (who they didn't sign).
In 2015, Ray Shero offered #6 to Columbus for #8, #34, and #129. That would have made sense for us since everybody figured Columbus wanted a D and we would have been guaranteed that at least one of Zacha/Barzal would have been there at #8.
Hypothetical scenario this year is say the Devils really want a wing and they think Buffalo/Philly/Minnesota are looking at other positions. San Jose calls since they maybe want one of the last top tier D. So maybe you get the same guy at #14 that you would have taken at #10. But like you mentioned, sometimes the gamble isn't worth a garden variety 2nd round pick. Especially if the quality drops after #20 like many have been saying.
I personally have Nygard at #6 overall. So in my mind, if my top 5 of Celebrini/Demidov/Lindstrom/Buium/Dickinson are all off the board, Nygard becomes the best available player. Also, he played a good deal of center towards the end of last season and looked pretty good there.A lot of draft experts have him outside the top 10.
Rankings
Ranked #13 by CONSOLIDATED RANKING
Ranked #16 by ELITEPROSPECTS.COM
Ranked #20 by TSN/BOB McKENZIE
Ranked #17 by TSN/CRAIG BUTTON
Ranked #6 by THN/FERRARI
Ranked #16 by THN/KENNEDY
Ranked #16 by MCKEEN'S HOCKEY
Ranked #15 by FLOHOCKEY/CHRIS PETERS
Ranked #12 by FCHOCKEY
Ranked #16 by DAILY FACEOFF
Ranked #5 by NHL CENTRAL SCOUTING (EU Skaters)
Ranked #18 by ISS HOCKEY
Ranked #16 by SPORTSNET/COSENTINO
Ranked #16 by SPORTSNET/BUKALA
Ranked #9 by RECRUIT SCOUTING
Ranked #12 by DOBBERPROSPECTS
Ranked #13 by DRAFT PROSPECTS HOCKEY
Ranked #15 by SMAHT SCOUTING
I don't like taking reaches based on team needs. Just draft best player available. If we are going to draft based on a team need, i rather they focus on a center.
I've yet to say anything truly negative about Lamoriello or Shero on these threads, I don't see myself breaking character for Fitzgerald, who has mostly done an excellent job running the Devils.@StevenToddIves and our debate plot thickens with that Markstrom trade.
I'd say my concern that Fitz is feeling some heat to win now appears correct, yes? I feel like we'd both agree the Markstrom trade was a material overpay and outright dangerous for a team that just missed the playoffs.
Remains to be seen how it impacts the possibility of moving this year's 1st though. On one hand and in your favor, it'd be wild to move yet ANOTHER 1st considering the team isn't a serious contender. On the other, if you trade material assets for a 35 year old goalie with 2 years remaining, that implies you are trying to go for it right now.
Still think this place will eventually turn on Fitz, yourself included.
Man, would Lindstrom be a dream come true.It wouldn’t be smart for NJ to trade the pick before they see the draft unfold. If they have Lindstrom ranked 2 and he falls, they would be foolish to trade the pick at 10OA value.
A lot of draft experts have him outside the top 10.
Rankings
Ranked #13 by CONSOLIDATED RANKING
Ranked #16 by ELITEPROSPECTS.COM
Ranked #20 by TSN/BOB McKENZIE
Ranked #17 by TSN/CRAIG BUTTON
Ranked #6 by THN/FERRARI
Ranked #16 by THN/KENNEDY
Ranked #16 by MCKEEN'S HOCKEY
Ranked #15 by FLOHOCKEY/CHRIS PETERS
Ranked #12 by FCHOCKEY
Ranked #16 by DAILY FACEOFF
Ranked #5 by NHL CENTRAL SCOUTING (EU Skaters)
Ranked #18 by ISS HOCKEY
Ranked #16 by SPORTSNET/COSENTINO
Ranked #16 by SPORTSNET/BUKALA
Ranked #9 by RECRUIT SCOUTING
Ranked #12 by DOBBERPROSPECTS
Ranked #13 by DRAFT PROSPECTS HOCKEY
Ranked #15 by SMAHT SCOUTING
I don't like taking reaches based on team needs. Just draft best player available. If we are going to draft based on a team need, i rather they focus on a center.
I was very pro Fitz. Now in the moment I have more questions with how he is managing. Its not negative, but its not 80-100%. positive.I've yet to say anything truly negative about Lamoriello or Shero on these threads, I don't see myself breaking character for Fitzgerald, who has mostly done an excellent job running the Devils.
There is no GM with whom I will love every move. I still criticize wasted draft picks on names like Baumgartner, Hurtig and Salminen. I thought he waited too long to pull the trigger on a new coach and it was a bit of an overpay for Markstrom. But overall, he's done a great job and I commend him.
Man, would Lindstrom be a dream come true.
I'm a pretty hard 69%I was very pro Fitz. Now in the moment I have more questions with how he is managing. Its not negative, but its not 80-100%. positive.
Obviously, just an example. Anyone in that 2 to 11 range could theoretically be their number 2 on the big boardMan, would Lindstrom be a dream come true.
We both at 69... I guess.I'm a pretty hard 69%
I'm a pretty hard 69%
71%We both at 69... I guess.
But we have no Bahls and no WoodI'm a pretty hard 69%
I personally have Sennecke just outside my top 20. To me, he's a good offensive wing prospect with elite puck-skills and excellent passing vision and a pretty good shot -- a combination which makes him worth a pick int he 1st round. However, he's not a particularly impressive skater, his IQ dips severely off the puck, and his compete level and defensive game are both closer to concerns than strengths. People love the fact he's 6'3, but I only consider size an attribute if the player actually uses that size proactively. For Sennecke, it's only a strength in the sense that he uses his length to further enhance his extraordinary puck control.Just based on the stuff I've read / listened to, sennecke definitely feels like the guy who gets attached to us the most.
Obviously I don't listen and read everything lol
I'm agreeing to your point, and decided to add to it in the hopes that other people can understand what both you and I have said on these threads at great length:I was very pro Fitz. Now in the moment I have more questions with how he is managing. Its not negative, but its not 80-100%. positive.
disagreeWe can draft our own and tell Hab fans to kick rocks finally.
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