Oddbob
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- Jan 21, 2016
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GDT: 2024 Draft Discussion
- Thread starter Vector Cereal
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I don't think we are in a position to pass on a defensemen who is head and shoulders above the other options. I also won't be shocked if whoever we draft this year is eventually moved (not tomorrow necessarily) as part of a trade to upgrade the roster. We are quickly getting towards that phase of the rebuild.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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Eventually that opportunity cost of drafting defenseman as heavily as we have is going to catch up with you.
How are we going to use this pick in a future trade if we have a logjam at defense? Teams don’t like giving up a lot for players who haven’t done anything in the NHL yet.
How impressed are you by our forward prospects right now on a scale of 1 to 10?
Because he gets traded does not mean that he is the cornerstone of the deal. Defensemen and centers always have more trade value mind you. I think you run a real risk of overhyping a forward prospect if you limit your selection to forwards. You will tell yourself he is better than he actually is or will rationalize away warts to justify taking him over a defensemen. We still need to be flexible.
Disclosure: the best available option could very well be a forward, but we won't know that until draft day.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
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In a vacuum, or from a logic-based perspective, I get what you are saying.
But I already have questions about their process for coming up with BPA... I mean you and I really liked the collective forward talent this year and they thought Brady Cleveland was the BPA at
#47.
So I don't know I share that same faith they are going to follow that process like you suggest.
True, but 75% of the guys I want to take each year end up sucking like the rest. I think we need to get closer to draft day before we have any meaningful discussions about the issue. I genuinely have no clue where we are gonna be drafting this year.
I think your analogous position is doing exactly what the Wings did last year: going against "consensus" and taking defensemen in face the supposedly better available forward talent.
SantosHalper
Get off my lawn
Players that i mentioned or all forwards? I'll answer to both.
9/10 Danielson, Kasper and Mazur
- Danielson has already proved that he can keep up with NHL pace, now i don't believe that he is ready for full 82 game season but next season in AHL and i think he is ready. In WHL Danielson's team is trash and seems like he is doing everything except playing in goal for them. He is more ready than expected, if he were in a better team, the hype would be insane.
- Kasper since his draft year, has been more great. A teenager in SHL, in a championship contender team, in a big role and already carrying Austria's men's national team. 1 NHL game under his belt and he didn't out of place in that one. Right now in AHL it's been difficult but that's because of the injury. Every hockey player has said, if you miss or have bad summer training, it is going mean a difficult season. Kasper is healthy now and hopefully stays that way and plays a full season, gets a good training next summer and i have no doubt that can fight for spot in next years team.
- Mazur has looked great ever since he was drafted. Nearly a PPG player in college, 7 points and 5 goals in the U20 Worlds. Good start in AHL last season 6 games and 6 points, pretty good effort in the men's worlds. 4 points in 10 games and was very noticeable on forecheck, im pretty sure he didn't lose a single board battle in that tournament. When he was drafted i though he was a bottom-6 grinder but quickly he proved that he has top-6 potential. Probably a year away from a competing for a spot in NHL.
Rest of the forwards 6/10
- Buchelnikov and Lombardi has stand out but both of them still have lot of work to do. Most of the forward prospects are still in the college/Europe and 1 in the juniors.
So the average is 7-7,5?/10
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Red Wings loaded in every position in the prospect pool and the team scoring from left and right, i don't see that Wings are missing skill. And when FA signings are proving to efficient. Wings can afford to look for a certain type of player from the draft and i think that type is Yakemchuk.
I'd love to have a forward version but there isn't one available, especially a someone who could arrive soon without spending 4-5 years in college/juniors/Europe and in AHL. If he's taken already, then go with BPA whom ever it is at the time.
Yakemchuk has that killer mindset, that can't be taught and that is the organizational need imo. Wings did pick a player like that last summer but by looks of it is going to take 4-6 years until Cleveland might be ready to compete for a NHL spot.
Is there even a any type of forward in this draft class available between 15-25 who could help the Wings within 2-3 years?
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
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I appreciate you writing that out, but compare that to how you feel about our defensive prospects? I mean for me I think our best 2 prospects right now are pretty easily Edvinsson and ASP.
This is where we fundamentally disagree, but I get your point. I also hate saying "we can afford to ___" when we are still not a contender level team. We can't afford to do anything just yet in my book.
Yeah and this is why I think he will go top 10 by the time of the draft.
Maybe this kid Simon Zether at eliteprospects.com who I think is being overlooked/undervalued because he is playing in a men's league.
Or a bigger forward like: Liam Greentree at eliteprospects.com
That's also a hard thing to guess. I wouldn't have told you a smaller forward like Benson would be playing in the NHL right now, but here we are.
RedHawkDown
still trying to trust the yzerplan
Yes, there are multiple.
Andrew Basha
Nikita Artamonov
Tij Iginla (possibly could drop)
Liam Greentree
We really don't need more defensemen. Ed and ASP will be NHLers, we have Seider, we might trade for a defenseman this season, and Walman can play a role in the top 4. We need offensive contributors that aren't 35-year-old Kane and fillers like Copp and Compher.
When the playoffs start, teams check much tighter, and you need elite talent to score goals. WE don't have any elite offensive talent in the pipeline; it's the one thing our prospect pool is missing. We need to swing for the fences with a guy like Basha, Artamonov, or Iginla.
We aren't finding elite offensive talent in the mid to later first round. Sorry.
RedHawkDown
still trying to trust the yzerplan
David Pastrnak
Roope Hintz
Jason Robertson
Sebastian Aho
Kyle Connor
Mathew Barzal
And to a lesser extent (not elite but high scoring very good 1st line players):
Brock Boeser (scoring at a 60 goal pace this year)
Travis Konecny
Robert Thomas
Nick Suzuki
Martin Necas
Cole Caufield
Matt Boldy
Seth Jarvis
Wyatt Johnston
Prospects/guys just breakign in who might become elite/top line players:
Connor Zary
Jiri Kulich
etc
It's possible, and it happens every single year. Sooner or later, detroit has to have one of our lower 1st / 2nd round picks exceed expectations. Without multiple top 3 lottery picks, that is how you build a contender in a cap league.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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Hey, even I asked for Perreault at 23. He hasn't, however, played any NHL hockey and therefore cannot be reasonably considered to have elite NHL offensive ability.Gabe Perreault went 23rd last year
The numbers suggest we are not landing an elite offensive player in the mid to late first round. We can tell ourselves that we are going to because elite players have come from there before, but we are really just setting ourselves up for disappointment.
lilidk
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- Mar 4, 2008
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So far Danielson, Kasper , Mazur, Buchelnikov, Savage don't look like top line players.
Edvinsson the only one is first line player. ASP top 4
There are plenty elite talent in the second and later, you just need to guess it correctly. Yzerman had couple of those in Tampa
KasperTheGrittyGhost
Registered User
Take the best player available at the highest value positions in the first round, and prioritize skill in rounds 2-7. The first round premium on a guy like Yakemchuk translates to asset value regardless of how that plays out on the team — ie, maybe that guy facilitates a trade, or allows you to move Gibson / ASP if they trend well.
I was beating the drum for Reily Heidt last year, but there’s always a skilled forward or two that slip deep in the draft. We’re rounding the corner of having a deep organization and we can start taking big swings on guys with question marks.
I was beating the drum for Reily Heidt last year, but there’s always a skilled forward or two that slip deep in the draft. We’re rounding the corner of having a deep organization and we can start taking big swings on guys with question marks.
Realgud
Jersey ads are a disgrace
Is Danielson's team really that bad? They are 8th out of 22 teams in the WHL for points per game (or 10th in pure points). They are also tied for 9th in goals. It's not the greatest team but it seems to be above the middle of the pack.
SantosHalper
Get off my lawn
Well you're not wrong. But by drafting Yakemchuk opens up the possibility to trade the surplus D prospects to bolster the team in other position, if those prospects are NHL caliber and can't over throw someone from the line up. Teams with narrow cap space would be happy to take someone with a cheap bridge deal.
When the team is a contender, the 1st round pick will be low or the team doesn't have it at all. Way lower chance to get a player you want/need. Detroit's rebuild is in that phase where is the time to pick players who we want/need imo. And ship has sailed for getting the likes of Celebrini.
Zether sounds good, not so sure about Greentree yet. As for Benson, im not really sure that Buffalo did the right thing. My guess is that he gasses out at the 50/60 game mark and spends rest of the season struggling. I could be wrong but i would have kept him in the juniors for one more year at least.
I would stay away from Russians in the 1st round, there is too much uncertainty with that country now a days. Risky tactic to go to the draft wishing you get another Pastrnak at 18 overall.
Tampa had 3 headed monster defense, Hedman in the 1st pair, McDonagh in the 2nd and Sergachev in the 3rd. Way i see it we have tools for 2 great pair and then many hopefulls for the 3rd. By drafting another top D prospect gets us the possibility to get the same. Other D prospects who aren't good enough can be traded. I take Yakemchuk over all the names you mentioned, if he is available. Detroit swings for the fences plenty times in the later rounds.
Selänne had 80 point season when he was 40, i don't see why Kane can't do the same. 50-60 point guy Marchessault won the Conn Smythe, who says Ray or Cat can't do the same. Danielson's release is impressive, he will score goals in NHL. There is plenty of skill in Detroit now and coming up in the system.
Marchessault went undrafted and Aho, Hintz, Robertson are 2nd round picks. World doesn't end if Wings pick another defenseman in the 1st round, it only improves the defense. Wings becomes a team that simple doesn't give up goals and offence will have enough skill to score the necessary goals to win. Elite defense with deep and well roled offence will carry the team to the championship.
Savage doesn't but what Danielson, Kasper and Mazur you been watching? Buchelnikov is still far away to be anything.
That's what they keep saying, that Danielson is surrounded with future ECHL players
OgeeOgelthorpe
Riccis per 60 record holder
- Feb 29, 2020
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When I saw them against the Everett Silvertips they were realbad. Absolutely zero structure. The defensemen on his team were hot garbage.
- Sep 27, 2017
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Mine. Shit in one hand and hope in the other. See which fills up faster.
NickH8
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2015
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Haven't been able to scout much this year. Probably won't be looking too in depth. I do have a hot take though. We should draft a good player.
SantosHalper
Get off my lawn
Not bad, i've always liked the great thinker of our time Homer J. Simpson.
Trying is the first step towards failure
Hey hey! Bad Santa! My favourite christmas movie.
Perfect Human
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Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
- 36,826
- 15,670
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
- 36,826
- 15,670
From strictly an NHL draft perspective, I think you can crazy good value with drafting Russians right now potentially.
Do you see how good Michkov has looked this year? Pretty crazy that Philly got a player like that at #7. Daniil But has done well so far this year too.
