GDT: 2024 Draft Discussion

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Takeaways from Bob's ranking
-Yakemchuk/Buium/Jiricek at #12/13/14, if any of those 3 are available at our first pick, I am fine with taking them over a forward... (I randomly saw some of Buium's highlights at Denver recently, holy smokes that kid looks impressive.)
-Forwards I like in that 10-20 range - Connelly, Iginla, Greentree... and I like Ritchie at #21 too
-This ranking is good for the MBN supporters, he comes in at #20... I honestly thought he would be higher. If we end up picking him I will try to convince myself he is Timo Meier 2.0 (possibly the version prior to this year)

This may be the first draft that you and I actually agree on our favorite prospects. I don't hate any of those guys for our pick.

I also think you'll come around on MBN. He's got a lot of traits that I think make him the kind of winger that complements any line he's on. Maybe not so much a line driver like Larkin but a do-it-all swiss army knife winger. Maybe a 50 point, 2-way physical guy. Maybe we get lucky and he's a Hossa?

 

[Frk It]

This may be the first draft that you and I actually agree on our favorite prospects. I don't hate any of those guys for our pick.

Shoot... that means something has gone terribly wrong

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Shoot... that means something has gone terribly wrong

Or it means that you're finally picking the right players to like at the draft.

 

[Frk It]

Yakemchuk would be my first call of those you mentioned followed by the forwards. I personally think we pass on Buium after taking ASP last year. I think he will be a better college player than a pro player at the end of the day. Greentree would be awesome but I think he is off of the board before we ultimately pick. Those two in Muskegon also warrant some consideration. I don't know what to make of Jiricek to be honest.

I would be pretty surprised if Yakemchuk is actually there for us on draft day, but I’d be on board with drafting him. He’s the kind of player NHL teams love and he’s producing very well in the WHL.

What is Buium missing? Or let me ask you this, when was the last time there was a defenseman that impactful in the NCAA in their draft year that didn’t turn into a good NHL player… has that happened?

 

[RedHawkDown]

I’d be very happy with Iginla, Connelly, MBN in that order. If somehow Catton drops like the ranking I hope Stevie tries to trade up

 

[HoweFan]

I’m still drafting Nygarrd at one because I want a forward. Fischer has to be taken in round two or we miss him

 

[Holden Caufield]

Buium is having a crazy season when you put it in perspective…

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I would be pretty surprised if Yakemchuk is actually there for us on draft day, but I’d be on board with drafting him. He’s the kind of player NHL teams love and he’s producing very well in the WHL.

What is Buium missing? Or let me ask you this, when was the last time there was a defenseman that impactful in the NCAA in their draft year that didn’t turn into a good NHL player… has that happened?

When I watch him, I honestly don't know where the offense is coming from which has me concerned. I see him producing on plays that you just don't see in the NHL and taking some big risks to get his production. He has above average skating (though he rarely beats people with his feet) and I think he has above average puck skills, but when I add them up, they don't equal the production, which is obviously really good. I can't think of anything that screams elite. I think Fox has very elite puck and passing skills for a defensemen and Hughes has very elite skating for a defensemen. Perhaps the missing link though is passing and anticipation. He is fine defensively at the college level (and very honest), but I am not convinced you are getting someone who will be league average on the defensive side of the puck against bigger professionals. Thus, you really, really need NHL offense from him. Yakemchuk doesn't present this risk in my eyes.

I also don't think there is room on the roster for both him and ASP. You can have one of those types in today's game but not two. I think I trust ASP's offense more than I do Buium's and will always take the righty when presented with an option. I agree that Yakemchuk is likely gone when we pick. I think he easily goes top 10. He though is the one defensemen I really want. I would rather invest the draft capital it would take to get Buium in some of the forwards, who in my opinion are of equal general quality and perhaps less risky.

Just my two cents.

 

[Frk It]

When I watch him, I honestly don't know where the offense is coming from which has me concerned. I see him producing on plays that you just don't see in the NHL and taking some big risks to get his production. He has above average skating (though he rarely beats people with his feet) and I think he has above average puck skills, but when I add them up, they don't equal the production, which is obviously really good. I can't think of anything that screams elite. I think Fox has very elite puck and passing skills for a defensemen and Hughes has very elite skating for a defensemen. Perhaps the missing link though is passing and anticipation. He is fine defensively at the college level (and very honest), but I am not convinced you are getting someone who will be league average on the defensive side of the puck against bigger professionals. Thus, you really, really need NHL offense from him. Yakemchuk doesn't present this risk in my eyes.

I also don't think there is room on the roster for both him and ASP. You can have one of those types in today's game but not two. I think I trust ASP's offense more than I do Buium's and will always take the righty when presented with an option. I agree that Yakemchuk is likely gone when we pick. I think he easily goes top 10. He though is the one defensemen I really want. I would rather invest the draft capital it would take to get Buium in some of the forwards, who in my opinion are of equal general quality and perhaps less risky.

Just my two cents.

I mean the clips I have seen show a lot of elusiveness and puck skill

See here:

As far as if that will translate to the NHL, not sure. I have had very very little time to watch any of these players this year.

 

[NickH8]

I haven't watched prospects much this year since the Wings haven't collapsed yet and my football teams are taking a lot of my attention. What I do know is the last time Yzerman picked a Connoly it didn't end well. Maybe Connelly isn't for us

 

[Frk It]

I haven't watched prospects much this year since the Wings haven't collapsed yet and my football teams are taking a lot of my attention. What I do know is the last time Yzerman picked a Connoly it didn't end well. Maybe Connelly isn't for us

Watch him and that opinion will change

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I mean the clips I have seen show a lot of elusiveness and puck skill

See here:

As far as if that will translate to the NHL, not sure. I have had very very little time to watch any of these players this year.

Like I said, I think he has above average puck skills. I don't, however, consider them elite and I certainly don't consider his skating elite. More importantly, how often do you see NHL defensemen try to beat defenders one-on-one from the blueline? There is a reason that they don't.

I have seen him live four times this year and I think he was on the board in all four games. He is and will be a very good college player. I don't, however, think we will be kicking ourselves for passing on him.

I am just not jonsing to draft a smallish offensive defensemen who isn't an elite skater, especially one year after we took a similar profiled player in the first round. I will let him beat me. If I am wrong, I think I am still finding a quality player with our first round pick. For the record I am not jonsing to draft Parekh either.

 

[Frk It]

Like I said, I think he has above average puck skills. I don't, however, consider them elite and I certainly don't consider his skating elite. More importantly, how often do you see NHL defensemen try to beat defenders one-on-one from the blueline? There is a reason that they don't.

Kronwall used to do it and succeed at it a lot. Especially on the power play. In a similar fashion too with a lot of head fakes and misdirection. It's all about picking your spots though.

I have seen him live four times this year and I think he was on the board in all four games. He is and will be a very good college player. I don't, however, think we will be kicking ourselves for passing on him.

I am just not jonsing to draft a smallish offensive defensemen who isn't an elite skater, especially one year after we took a similar profiled player in the first round. I will let him beat me. If I am wrong, I think I am still finding a quality player with our first round pick. For the record I am not jonsing to draft Parekh either.

He is listed at 6'2 on Denver's team site. Don't have concerns with him from a size perspective. Your take on him being just a good college player could be right, haven't seen him enough to say. Just pointing out we haven't seen a defenseman be this good as a first time eligible and not become a good NHL player, to my knowledge, so he would kind of be a first in that regard.

Regarding Parekh, I like him a lot (mostly from seeing him last year). I actually think he is a pretty similar player to ASP, but a bigger/better version of that player.

 

[HisNoodliness]

I mean the clips I have seen show a lot of elusiveness and puck skill

See here:

As far as if that will translate to the NHL, not sure. I have had very very little time to watch any of these players this year.

I haven't watched much either and I highly doubt that Buium will be there for us. If he is, he's my pick. I mean, if I won the lottery, I'd be taking Celebrini, but I'd almost be annoyed because I'd want to take Buium. I don't know anything about Silayev who is huge and has good KHL stats... but besides him, I think anyone that takes a D above Buium is nuts. None of the CHL kids impress me nearly as much and some of them are having fantastic seasons in their own right.

Sometimes, Buium makes the NCAA look like the BCHL and that is just so impressive to me. He's playing older and better players that are running better systems than anything he's had to deal with so far, and he skates around out there like he's the only guy that's ever played hockey before. He gives me "it's obvious that he's crushing it- look at how awful his competition is" vibes while playing in a league that historically should be very hard for him to just get by in. He's a boy amongst men playing like a man amongst boys.

His ability to hit a seam between two defenders with a quick cut, his ability to bare some physicality and keep the puck, his passing, and his skating are just all next level, even in the NCAA. He can evade pressure and break down a defense while looking almost bored. He also has decent size and uses his skating to generally be positioned well defensively. He's an OFD or TWD so I don't think defense will ever be his calling card... but it's a lot better at this age than most D that can skate and score like he can. If I had to criticize him, I'm not even sure what I'd say. I guess he could shoot a bit better/more and his game is really risky. He'll have to settle his game down a lot at the NHL level and take the easy shot more often than he does, but those are criticisms that I want to make of a guy playing at a lower level. If you're not taking too many risks when you're the best guy on the ice, then you're not looking to impose your superior ability as much as you should. I think he'll adjust just fine.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Kronwall used to do it and succeed at it a lot. Especially on the power play. In a similar fashion too with a lot of head fakes and misdirection. It's all about picking your spots though.

He is listed at 6'2 on Denver's team site. Don't have concerns with him from a size perspective. Your take on him being just a good college player could be right, haven't seen him enough to say. Just pointing out we haven't seen a defenseman be this good as a first time eligible and not become a good NHL player, to my knowledge, so he would kind of be a first in that regard.

Regarding Parekh, I like him a lot (mostly from seeing him last year). I actually think he is a pretty similar player to ASP, but a bigger/better version of that player.

He is absolutely not 6'2". He is at best 6'0" and a pretty under developed 6'0". I don't know why they list him like they do. Also, don't get me wrong, I think he will play in the NHL, I just question how good he will be. I worry he is a bit of a tweener. I don't think he is the next Chris Letang if that is what people are expecting. If I told you he is a middle pair NHL defensemen at best, would you still want him?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I haven't watched prospects much this year since the Wings haven't collapsed yet and my football teams are taking a lot of my attention. What I do know is the last time Yzerman picked a Connoly it didn't end well. Maybe Connelly isn't for us

Different times. Different types of players. This Connelly doesn't have the same injury issues the other Connelly had in a very weak draft year.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Like I said, I think he has above average puck skills. I don't, however, consider them elite and I certainly don't consider his skating elite. More importantly, how often do you see NHL defensemen try to beat defenders one-on-one from the blueline? There is a reason that they don't.

I have seen him live four times this year and I think he was on the board in all four games. He is and will be a very good college player. I don't, however, think we will be kicking ourselves for passing on him.

I am just not jonsing to draft a smallish offensive defensemen who isn't an elite skater, especially one year after we took a similar profiled player in the first round. I will let him beat me. If I am wrong, I think I am still finding a quality player with our first round pick. For the record I am not jonsing to draft Parekh either.

While I don't really have much love for small defensemen, I disagree with the bolded point. It's happening a lot more now in the league. Hughes x2, Fox, Makar, Heiskanen, Dobson, Sanderson, Chabot, Dahlin, Mintyukov are guys I have watched do this pretty regularly now. There are a lot of prospects coming into the league that play this way, too. Edvinsson, Clarke, Buium, Hutson x2, ASP.

The way offensive D are playing the game now is more like a playmaking pointguard in basketball than the dump it in the corner or take a slapper from the point. Guys like Seider, Pietrangelo, Power are becoming more rare as a team's top D.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

While I don't really have much love for small defensemen, I disagree with the bolded point. It's happening a lot more now in the league. Hughes x2, Fox, Makar, Heiskanen, Dobson, Sanderson, Chabot, Dahlin, Mintyukov are guys I have watched do this pretty regularly now. There are a lot of prospects coming into the league that play this way, too. Edvinsson, Clarke, Buium, Hutson x2, ASP.

The way offensive D are playing the game now is more like a playmaking pointguard in basketball than the dump it in the corner or take a slapper from the point. Guys like Seider, Pietrangelo, Power are becoming more rare as a team's top D.

It is a great way to turn the puck over at the blueline 5x5. They absolutely move laterally with the puck, but they don't try to beat players head on from a standstill in open ice (save maybe Makar),Turning the puck over at either blueline is a great way to give up goals. You also handed me a list of very good skaters (save maybe Fox). If I considered Buium a skater of the quality, I might value him more.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I haven't watched much either and I highly doubt that Buium will be there for us. If he is, he's my pick. I mean, if I won the lottery, I'd be taking Celebrini, but I'd almost be annoyed because I'd want to take Buium. I don't know anything about Silayev who is huge and has good KHL stats... but besides him, I think anyone that takes a D above Buium is nuts. None of the CHL kids impress me nearly as much and some of them are having fantastic seasons in their own right.

Sometimes, Buium makes the NCAA look like the BCHL and that is just so impressive to me. He's playing older and better players that are running better systems than anything he's had to deal with so far, and he skates around out there like he's the only guy that's ever played hockey before. He gives me "it's obvious that he's crushing it- look at how awful his competition is" vibes while playing in a league that historically should be very hard for him to just get by in. He's a boy amongst men playing like a man amongst boys.

His ability to hit a seam between two defenders with a quick cut, his ability to bare some physicality and keep the puck, his passing, and his skating are just all next level, even in the NCAA. He can evade pressure and break down a defense while looking almost bored. He also has decent size and uses his skating to generally be positioned well defensively. He's an OFD or TWD so I don't think defense will ever be his calling card... but it's a lot better at this age than most D that can skate and score like he can. If I had to criticize him, I'm not even sure what I'd say. I guess he could shoot a bit better/more and his game is really risky. He'll have to settle his game down a lot at the NHL level and take the easy shot more often than he does, but those are criticisms that I want to make of a guy playing at a lower level. If you're not taking too many risks when you're the best guy on the ice, then you're not looking to impose your superior ability as much as you should. I think he'll adjust just fine.

I think at this point people are in love with the stats and want to alleviate the need to think critically of the prospect. In my estimation you have painted a picture of a player who would theoretically produce like Buium, but who really isn't Buium at all.

 

[letsgowings9999]

Unless it's a really good dman we can't pass on and then we use a wallinder/buium as a trade piece I'd want a forward

Been hearing a lot of good things about Connolly's lately but dont know if we land him with pick 13 or 14

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

It is a great way to turn the puck over at the blueline 5x5. They absolutely move laterally with the puck, but they don't try to beat players head on from a standstill in open ice (save maybe Makar),Turning the puck over at either blueline is a great way to give up goals. You also handed me a list of very good skaters (save maybe Fox). If I considered Buium a skater of the quality, I might value him more.

What I see with Buium is good skating mechanics and decent speed that will get even better with more strength. But I do agree on your point that teams tend to only have one of these guys. Maybe ASP is Detroit's, maybe not. Maybe Edvinsson is that guy, maybe not. (I'm leaning more towards no as I think he'll find his calling in the league as more of a shutdown and transition defender.)

If Buium is there at Detroit's pick I would be absolutely shocked and run to the podium for a great value pick. If not then I'm leaning towards 1 of the 4 wingers Greentree, Connelly, MBN or Iginla.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Like I said, I think he has above average puck skills. I don't, however, consider them elite and I certainly don't consider his skating elite. More importantly, how often do you see NHL defensemen try to beat defenders one-on-one from the blueline? There is a reason that they don't.

I have seen him live four times this year and I think he was on the board in all four games. He is and will be a very good college player. I don't, however, think we will be kicking ourselves for passing on him.

I am just not jonsing to draft a smallish offensive defensemen who isn't an elite skater, especially one year after we took a similar profiled player in the first round. I will let him beat me. If I am wrong, I think I am still finding a quality player with our first round pick. For the record I am not jonsing to draft Parekh either.

Cale Makar does it all the time, so does Hughes. But I dont think they'll take another small dman after they took ASP.

We need to draft a forward, there are lots of solid high-skill options at 14-25 range where we will draft. The only D I'd be OK with is Yakemchuk but he will go top 5-10.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Cale Makar does it all the time, so does Hughes. But I dont think they'll take another small dman after they took ASP.

We need to draft a forward, there are lots of solid high-skill options at 14-25 range where we will draft. The only D I'd be OK with is Yakemchuk but he will go top 5-10.

I am very much in agreement with you, but do want to point out that you just named two of the best skating defensemen in the NHL as a counter point.

I don't think Buium is so much better (if at all) than the forward options that should be available, that we absolutely need to take him. Horses for courses I guess.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

What I see with Buium is good skating mechanics and decent speed that will get even better with more strength. But I do agree on your point that teams tend to only have one of these guys. Maybe ASP is Detroit's, maybe not. Maybe Edvinsson is that guy, maybe not. (I'm leaning more towards no as I think he'll find his calling in the league as more of a shutdown and transition defender.)

If Buium is there at Detroit's pick I would be absolutely shocked and run to the podium for a great value pick. If not then I'm leaning towards 1 of the 4 wingers Greentree, Connelly, MBN or Iginla.

I don't like the forward skating mechanics. He has a pretty shortish forward stride and needs to keep his chest up more. He also isn't super explosive. I think he does move legitimately well laterally, but people tend to overrate his skating. That said, I would have said the same thing about Fox at this stage so things obviously can change.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

Different times. Different types of players. This Connelly doesn't have the same injury issues the other Connelly had in a very weak draft year.

I'm so old. I thought you were talking about Tim Connelly.