Speculation: 2024/25 Trade Rumours, Speculation etc Thread

[LowLefty]

I think every Dman should be an effective puck mover. That doesn't mean he needs to be able to make end-to-end rushes. It means that he needs to be able to get the puck out of the D zone with possession. The player who can do that will also be able to move the puck in the N zone. Same skill set. Doesn't matter if he is doing it via passing or carrying the puck, as long as he is moving it in the right direction with possession.

That applies to defense oriented players and to offense oriented players - big and small, fast or slow.

I agree - they all should be effective puck movers.
I'd settle for an outlet pass but if they want to carry it out, go for it. But from where I sit, carrying the puck out of your end when you don't have it, is hard to do. And if that dman is able to win the battle that allows him possession, he usually wants to make a pass - probably because he's exhausted. You will see them all skate it out if they are picking up a dump in or if it passed to them, but they don't usually opt for that option after a battle.

My point is more about first getting the puck, and then deciding how you want to move it - that IMO, is the hard part (retrieving) and where we should be leaning when we want to evaluate dmen and their effectiveness. IMO, they can all pass the puck - just like any NHL level player.

As a side note, the small ones (unless they are very quick, skilled, and strong) are less likely to be able to handle the hard part - IMO

 

[voyageur]

Opposite sides.

It looks like Fleury might push Stan down. If he can maintain his current level of play he makes Stan redundant.

Lilj would push Miller down. Miller hasn't looked good so far in spite of playing with a partner who appears to me to have been playing pretty well. It is only 2 games and maybe he will get better. But if not, Liljegren would be an upgrade there at least.

OTOH, Salo might be ready to push Miller out after 15-20 games if Miller is not much better. It was already close in TC. That would make a trade for Lilj redundant.

Our D in Dec, if healthy, could look like:
JMo - DeMelo
Snerg - Pionk
Fleury/Ville - Salomonsson
Fleury/Ville - Stanley

At that point I go with 8 D because any we waive would be lost. The waived man would be our depth at LD. Miller gets waived and may or may not be claimed but we would still have Coglan and Lundmark for RHD depth on the the Moose. That is assuming Coglan isn't claimed on the way down.

Stan may become trade bait, depending on how Fleury and Ville are doing.

For me it's too early to pass judgment. I think you are just looking for some kind of consistency from the top 4. Fleury has played a big role in the shot blocking department early in the season, and I think that stat carries some weight defensively. Where Miller, Stanley or Heinola fill in I guess we'll see. But Fleury could be #5 still when everyone comes back.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I agree - they all should be effective puck movers.
I'd settle for an outlet pass but if they want to carry it out, go for it. But from where I sit, carrying the puck out of your end when you don't have it, is hard to do. And if that dman is able to win the battle that allows him possession, he usually wants to make a pass - probably because he's exhausted. You will see them all skate it out if they are picking up a dump in or if it passed to them, but they don't usually opt for that option after a battle.

My point is more about first getting the puck, and then deciding how you want to move it - that IMO, is the hard part (retrieving) and where we should be leaning when we want to evaluate dmen and their effectiveness. IMO, they can all pass the puck - just like any NHL level player.

As a side note, the small ones (unless they are very quick, skilled, and strong) are less likely to be able to handle the hard part - IMO

Yes, there are definitely other skills required of a good Dman. Puck retrieval is a big one. Maybe the biggest if we include all circumstances of puck retrieval. Recovering possession in the D zone is job one. Do that and then move it and you don't need to worry about boxing out in front of the net or blocking shots.

The small players need to recover the puck differently. Being first to the puck in the corner could be one way. If you don't get killed there. It never ceases to amaze me how often you see a board battle of one kind or another and the small guy comes away with the puck. Instead of trying to match strength, they find the openings. Of course, they just get pushed aside some times too.

 

[LowLefty]

Yes, there are definitely other skills required of a good Dman. Puck retrieval is a big one. Maybe the biggest if we include circumstances of puck retrieval. Recovering possession in the D zone is job one. Do that and then move it and you don't need to worry about boxing out in front of the net or blocking shots.

The small players need to recover the puck differently. Being first to the puck in the corner could be one way. If you don't get killed there. It never ceases to amaze me how often you see a board battle of one kind or another and the small guy comes away with the puck. Instead of trying to match strength, they find the openings. Of course, they just get pushed aside some times too.

There are smaller dmen who can win that battle - usually the quick, skilled, strong can put up a good fight.

 

[Whileee]

That’s almost a sideways deal for the Sabres. Think they’d want to add Ehlers to an already 50 pt contributing player like Peterka.

Kulich would be my target.

I'm not sold on Kulich's potential. He'd be behind Yager and Lambert on the C depth chart.

 

[Gm0ney]

IMO the main issue is that for whatever reason Ehlers hasn't meshed well with any of the other Jets. His talent is above average, so a trade for an equivalent quality player might make sense.

"Whatever reason" is that he's unpredictable and difficult to play with

But if he hasn't "meshed well" or was "unpredictable and difficult to play with", then why does the team consistently do better when he's on the ice?

 

[voyageur]

But if he hasn't "meshed well" or was "unpredictable and difficult to play with", then why does the team consistently do better when he's on the ice?

Best skater on the ice. I see a change already in Nik's game this year, where he is now attacking directly, at least from the perimeter. Getting behind the goal line gets him in prime passing positions, and rotating into scoring positions, whereas he would often curl and drag to the top of the blueline, and essentially take himself out of that equation. I think that kind of play will translate into more offense, eventually. Also going into areas where he will get some hits, but he's a heady player and they can avoid hits.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

There are smaller dmen who can win that battle - usually the quick, skilled, strong can put up a good fight.

Yes, but I think emphasizing "strong" and "put up a good fight" puts a little wrong spin on it. Not that strength doesn't help. It does, a lot. But if the little guy approaches the situation with that kind of mindset he is going to lose. He needs to find the weak spots in the other guys game. It is a lot of little things. Quickness is a must, IMO.

 

[Buffdog]

But if he hasn't "meshed well" or was "unpredictable and difficult to play with", then why does the team consistently do better when he's on the ice?

Great question... and it brings up another one

What's more important? The outcome, or how it's arrived at?

Seems like stats guys will overlook all the stupid shit Ehlers does because he makes the spreadsheets look pretty

But at the same time, they don't like a game that the Jets win if they got outchanced (or even if one line got outchanced)

Can't have your cake and eat it too

 

[Jets 31]

I am not worried in the least about Chevy not getting good value for Ehlers IF he trades him. Chevy has gotten good value back for players that other GM's knew wanted out from Winnipeg. Dubois for Vilardi, Iafallo, Kupari AND a second round pick.........

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm not sold on Kulich's potential. He'd be behind Yager and Lambert on the C depth chart.

I like Kulich, just by looking at his numbers. He flies under the radar a bit but excells everywhere he goes. So far. I hesitate simply because he is unproven and I don't get a lot of confirmation from the 'experts'.

If we accept that we can't quite get full value for Ehlers because usage has prevented him from fulfilling his full potential then taking an unproven player with a high ceiling might be our best bet.

Does a team give up a player like Peterka for a 6 years older Ehlers? I mean any team, similar player. Ehlers is only proven a little better and is 6 years closer to the end of his career. And he will cost a lot more, at least for the next several years.

Kulich would be a risk but his potential is pretty high, IMO.

 

[Thechozen1]

I'm not sold on Kulich's potential. He'd be behind Yager and Lambert on the C depth chart.

Convert him to wing if need be. He reminds me of HERTL in some ways.

 

[Gil Fisher]

It struck me Friday night that we have a lot of pending UFAs in our lineup.

Ehlers
Iaffalo
Namestnikov
Appleton
Pionk
Fleury
Coghlan (press box)

Going to be some tough choices in there. If we're on the outside looking in, i could see a decent return at the deadline.

 

[Whileee]

It struck me Friday night that we have a lot of pending UFAs in our lineup.

Ehlers
Iaffalo
Namestnikov
Appleton
Pionk
Fleury
Coghlan (press box)

Going to be some tough choices in there. If we're on the outside looking in, i could see a decent return at the deadline.

Agree.

I think that if Ehlers is traded, it's more likely a big hockey trade to a struggling team like the Isles or Sabres well before the deadline. Iafallo would definitely seem like a trade candidate even if the Jets are in contention, to create a bit more cap space. It might be a trade to a bubble team that needs a defensive winger. With Gus and Chibrikov and Toninato on deck, he seems like a trade option. Having said that, I could envision a near future where Kupari and Lambert are both centering lines with some winger combo of Perfetti, Ehlers, Barron and Iafallo.

I think the Jets will keep Pionk, and re-sign him at a lower cap hit. It's a loyalty thing, and they obviously value him higher than many fans if you consider his usage.

 

[Jet]

We've seen that Nik is either unfeeling or unable to change his playstyle to limit high risk play.

I love Ehlers. I love watching him, he generates such excitement.

I'd be happy if they re-signed him but honestly I think the best case scenario is if we could flip him for a younger asset.

With his playstyle and injury history, his next contract is highly likely to be a loser, especially if his camp is going to use the fancy stats to tell the story that he's going to score 100pts if only he plays line 1/ pp1

 

[voyageur]

It struck me Friday night that we have a lot of pending UFAs in our lineup.

Ehlers
Iaffalo
Namestnikov
Appleton
Pionk
Fleury
Coghlan (press box)

Going to be some tough choices in there. If we're on the outside looking in, i could see a decent return at the deadline.

You also have Vilardi and Samberg as big ticket RFAs going into the offseason, and you have to look at extensions for KC and Lowry. Lowry for sure you would think gets a decent raise given the quality of competition he is asked to play against, in a role that isn't easily replaceable

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

But if he hasn't "meshed well" or was "unpredictable and difficult to play with", then why does the team consistently do better when he's on the ice?

I'm not sure about the meshed well part but unpredictable and difficult to play with is a strength, not a weakness. Doing the unexpected makes him hard for opponents to read. It is difficult to play with in the sense that it is more work for his linemates.

 

[DRW204]

But if he hasn't "meshed well" or was "unpredictable and difficult to play with", then why does the team consistently do better when he's on the ice?

Yeah it hasn't been a detriment in GF vs GA, the most important thing. Meanwhile the alternative on the top line is usually a negative.
Some of the best players in the league are high flying, quick stick handling or skating and somewhat unpredictable in play style but other teams make it work. Morrissey offensively for example I wouldn't categorize as predictable or easy to read all the time.

 

[Whileee]

I think Ehlers makes sense for the Jets long term if it's in the 7M range. The cap is going up and the Jets will have some room on the wings once Nino and Appleton and Iafallo move on.

However, it really depends on whether Arniel is open to expanding his line concept to try to build a more versatile top 9 and more impact from the 4th line. I liked that he tried flipping Nino and Ehlers to generate a bit more offence. But I expect Arniel will stick to a defensive 2nd line led by Lowry.

My take early this season is that Namestnikov and Perfetti have been weak parts of that 3rd line. Namestnikov has messed up a number of offensive possessions and Perfetti needs to play a bit faster and more aggressively with the puck. I actually think that moving Kupari or Lambert into the C role with Perfetti and Ehlers makes some sense. Kupari is actually pretty good in the D zone and he's a good forechecker. He's starting to see the play better on offense and doesn't mind going to the net.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Great question... and it brings up another one

What's more important? The outcome, or how it's arrived at?

Seems like stats guys will overlook all the stupid shit Ehlers does because he makes the spreadsheets look pretty

But at the same time, they don't like a game that the Jets win if they got outchanced (or even if one line got outchanced)

Can't have your cake and eat it too

I don't like a game where Jets get badly outplayed but win. This is usually reflected in the shot count. The Edm game did not fall into that category. Jets were outshot by a wide margin. This would make the spreadsheet look bad but it was mostly a result of the score effect. Jets played well in that game.

It is not about the spreadsheets. No one cares if they look pretty or not. People do care if the team is playing well or not. There will always be games where they play badly and win and other games where they play well and lose. Some of that will be down to goaltending being better at one end than at the other. But a badly played win tends to lead to more bad play - and losses.

I overlook some stupid shit by Ehlers, not because he makes the spreadsheets look pretty but because he makes up for it with the good stuff. It is the good stuff that makes the spreadsheets look pretty. More bad play than good leads to ugly spreadsheets.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Convert him to wing if need be. He reminds me of HERTL in some ways.

If he is as good as I think he is (has to be a fairly big if I admit) he will jump to the front of the C prospect pack pretty quickly. If not? Sure, convert him to wing.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It struck me Friday night that we have a lot of pending UFAs in our lineup.

Ehlers
Iaffalo
Namestnikov
Appleton
Pionk
Fleury
Coghlan (press box)

Going to be some tough choices in there. If we're on the outside looking in, i could see a decent return at the deadline.

Ehlers will be tough. Fleury might make it tough. Long way to go first though.

The rest can stay if the price is right. Or move on if it is not.

Except for Pionk. Please don't have a contract year Neal. OTOH, if he has a really good contract year, we could go far. Hmmmm. But I don't want to see him extended for too long, too much and that is what a good year from him will lead to. So conflicted!

 

[Heldig]

It struck me Friday night that we have a lot of pending UFAs in our lineup.

Ehlers
Iaffalo
Namestnikov
Appleton
Pionk
Fleury
Coghlan (press box)

Going to be some tough choices in there. If we're on the outside looking in, i could see a decent return at the deadline.

They will sign Ehlers and Appleton. Trade Iaffalo. The rest walk to UFA. Namestnikov will sign in the summer.

 

[gojetsgo]

They will sign Ehlers and Appleton. Trade Iaffalo. The rest walk to UFA. Namestnikov will sign in the summer.

why are we trading iaffalo?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think Ehlers makes sense for the Jets long term if it's in the 7M range. The cap is going up and the Jets will have some room on the wings once Nino and Appleton and Iafallo move on.

However, it really depends on whether Arniel is open to expanding his line concept to try to build a more versatile top 9 and more impact from the 4th line. I liked that he tried flipping Nino and Ehlers to generate a bit more offence. But I expect Arniel will stick to a defensive 2nd line led by Lowry.

My take early this season is that Namestnikov and Perfetti have been weak parts of that 3rd line. Namestnikov has messed up a number of offensive possessions and Perfetti needs to play a bit faster and more aggressively with the puck. I actually think that moving Kupari or Lambert into the C role with Perfetti and Ehlers makes some sense. Kupari is actually pretty good in the D zone and he's a good forechecker. He's starting to see the play better on offense and doesn't mind going to the net.

Oddly, considering my wanting him waived out of TC, I like the idea of moving Kupari up. I had thought of that earlier in the context of what might get him going. Maybe better wingers would be the answer.

I wouldn't commit too hard to it of course, but it definitely would be worth a try. Especially since that line is floundering anyway.