Speculation: 2024/25 Trade Rumours, Speculation etc Thread

[LowLefty]

I think every Dman should be an effective puck mover. That doesn't mean he needs to be able to make end-to-end rushes. It means that he needs to be able to get the puck out of the D zone with possession. The player who can do that will also be able to move the puck in the N zone. Same skill set. Doesn't matter if he is doing it via passing or carrying the puck, as long as he is moving it in the right direction with possession.

That applies to defense oriented players and to offense oriented players - big and small, fast or slow.

I agree - they all should be effective puck movers.
I'd settle for an outlet pass but if they want to carry it out, go for it. But from where I sit, carrying the puck out of your end when you don't have it, is hard to do. And if that dman is able to win the battle that allows him possession, he usually wants to make a pass - probably because he's exhausted. You will see them all skate it out if they are picking up a dump in or if it passed to them, but they don't usually opt for that option after a battle.

My point is more about first getting the puck, and then deciding how you want to move it - that IMO, is the hard part (retrieving) and where we should be leaning when we want to evaluate dmen and their effectiveness. IMO, they can all pass the puck - just like any NHL level player.

As a side note, the small ones (unless they are very quick, skilled, and strong) are less likely to be able to handle the hard part - IMO

 

[voyageur]

Opposite sides.

It looks like Fleury might push Stan down. If he can maintain his current level of play he makes Stan redundant.

Lilj would push Miller down. Miller hasn't looked good so far in spite of playing with a partner who appears to me to have been playing pretty well. It is only 2 games and maybe he will get better. But if not, Liljegren would be an upgrade there at least.

OTOH, Salo might be ready to push Miller out after 15-20 games if Miller is not much better. It was already close in TC. That would make a trade for Lilj redundant.

Our D in Dec, if healthy, could look like:
JMo - DeMelo
Snerg - Pionk
Fleury/Ville - Salomonsson
Fleury/Ville - Stanley

At that point I go with 8 D because any we waive would be lost. The waived man would be our depth at LD. Miller gets waived and may or may not be claimed but we would still have Coglan and Lundmark for RHD depth on the the Moose. That is assuming Coglan isn't claimed on the way down.

Stan may become trade bait, depending on how Fleury and Ville are doing.

For me it's too early to pass judgment. I think you are just looking for some kind of consistency from the top 4. Fleury has played a big role in the shot blocking department early in the season, and I think that stat carries some weight defensively. Where Miller, Stanley or Heinola fill in I guess we'll see. But Fleury could be #5 still when everyone comes back.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I agree - they all should be effective puck movers.
I'd settle for an outlet pass but if they want to carry it out, go for it. But from where I sit, carrying the puck out of your end when you don't have it, is hard to do. And if that dman is able to win the battle that allows him possession, he usually wants to make a pass - probably because he's exhausted. You will see them all skate it out if they are picking up a dump in or if it passed to them, but they don't usually opt for that option after a battle.

My point is more about first getting the puck, and then deciding how you want to move it - that IMO, is the hard part (retrieving) and where we should be leaning when we want to evaluate dmen and their effectiveness. IMO, they can all pass the puck - just like any NHL level player.

As a side note, the small ones (unless they are very quick, skilled, and strong) are less likely to be able to handle the hard part - IMO

Yes, there are definitely other skills required of a good Dman. Puck retrieval is a big one. Maybe the biggest if we include all circumstances of puck retrieval. Recovering possession in the D zone is job one. Do that and then move it and you don't need to worry about boxing out in front of the net or blocking shots.

The small players need to recover the puck differently. Being first to the puck in the corner could be one way. If you don't get killed there. It never ceases to amaze me how often you see a board battle of one kind or another and the small guy comes away with the puck. Instead of trying to match strength, they find the openings. Of course, they just get pushed aside some times too.

 

[LowLefty]

Yes, there are definitely other skills required of a good Dman. Puck retrieval is a big one. Maybe the biggest if we include circumstances of puck retrieval. Recovering possession in the D zone is job one. Do that and then move it and you don't need to worry about boxing out in front of the net or blocking shots.

The small players need to recover the puck differently. Being first to the puck in the corner could be one way. If you don't get killed there. It never ceases to amaze me how often you see a board battle of one kind or another and the small guy comes away with the puck. Instead of trying to match strength, they find the openings. Of course, they just get pushed aside some times too.

There are smaller dmen who can win that battle - usually the quick, skilled, strong can put up a good fight.

 

[Whileee]

That’s almost a sideways deal for the Sabres. Think they’d want to add Ehlers to an already 50 pt contributing player like Peterka.

Kulich would be my target.

I'm not sold on Kulich's potential. He'd be behind Yager and Lambert on the C depth chart.

 

[Gm0ney]

IMO the main issue is that for whatever reason Ehlers hasn't meshed well with any of the other Jets. His talent is above average, so a trade for an equivalent quality player might make sense.

"Whatever reason" is that he's unpredictable and difficult to play with

But if he hasn't "meshed well" or was "unpredictable and difficult to play with", then why does the team consistently do better when he's on the ice?

 

[voyageur]

But if he hasn't "meshed well" or was "unpredictable and difficult to play with", then why does the team consistently do better when he's on the ice?

Best skater on the ice. I see a change already in Nik's game this year, where he is now attacking directly, at least from the perimeter. Getting behind the goal line gets him in prime passing positions, and rotating into scoring positions, whereas he would often curl and drag to the top of the blueline, and essentially take himself out of that equation. I think that kind of play will translate into more offense, eventually. Also going into areas where he will get some hits, but he's a heady player and they can avoid hits.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

There are smaller dmen who can win that battle - usually the quick, skilled, strong can put up a good fight.

Yes, but I think emphasizing "strong" and "put up a good fight" puts a little wrong spin on it. Not that strength doesn't help. It does, a lot. But if the little guy approaches the situation with that kind of mindset he is going to lose. He needs to find the weak spots in the other guys game. It is a lot of little things. Quickness is a must, IMO.

 

[Buffdog]

But if he hasn't "meshed well" or was "unpredictable and difficult to play with", then why does the team consistently do better when he's on the ice?

Great question... and it brings up another one

What's more important? The outcome, or how it's arrived at?

Seems like stats guys will overlook all the stupid shit Ehlers does because he makes the spreadsheets look pretty

But at the same time, they don't like a game that the Jets win if they got outchanced (or even if one line got outchanced)

Can't have your cake and eat it too

 

[Jets 31]

I am not worried in the least about Chevy not getting good value for Ehlers IF he trades him. Chevy has gotten good value back for players that other GM's knew wanted out from Winnipeg. Dubois for Vilardi, Iafallo, Kupari AND a second round pick.........

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm not sold on Kulich's potential. He'd be behind Yager and Lambert on the C depth chart.

I like Kulich, just by looking at his numbers. He flies under the radar a bit but excells everywhere he goes. So far. I hesitate simply because he is unproven and I don't get a lot of confirmation from the 'experts'.

If we accept that we can't quite get full value for Ehlers because usage has prevented him from fulfilling his full potential then taking an unproven player with a high ceiling might be our best bet.

Does a team give up a player like Peterka for a 6 year older Ehlers? I mean any team, similar player. Ehlers is only proven a little better and is 6 years closer to the end of his career. And he will cost a lot more at least for the next several years.

Kulich would be a risk but his potential is pretty high, IMO.