2024-25 Roster Thread #1: The Beginninging

[freakydallas13]

With Johansen's contract off the books at least for now, the Flyers don't have to start the season with Ellis on LTIR. Projected cap hit = $85,804,762

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Is there a timeline to see a conclusion for this saga, or is it basically "it'll happen when it happens"?

In case anyone else was curious, that’s 11.65 million for the 4th line and the 2 spare forwards.

Built from the 4th line out, in the truest sense of the phrase.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The team isn't moving Laughton.

 

[ponder719]

The result was poor, but the Ellis trade was probably Chuck's best as a Flyer in terms of thought process I could both understand and agree with.

Absolutely this. Of all of Chuck's moves, this one had a rationale behind it that would, Ellis' health permitting, have let us take a significant step forward. It's a shame we bought damaged goods, but at least we bought low in terms of assets moved.

 

[deadhead]

The result was poor, but the Ellis trade was probably Chuck's best as a Flyer in terms of thought process I could both understand and agree with.

The Ellis trade made sense as long as they were in "win now" mode.

The Giroux trade was also a first rate move, Tippett has been a good return, and Barkey and Edmonton's 2025 1st.

CF just couldn't figure out if he was coming or going, if he had followed the Giroux trade with a Risto trade he could have launched the rebuild a year early. Instead he doubles down with an overpriced contract and trades for TDA.

Or the importance of having a coherent strategy.

 

[freakydallas13]

The Ellis trade made sense as long as they were in "win now" mode.

The Giroux trade was also a first rate move, Tippett has been a good return, and Barkey and Edmonton's 2025 1st.

CF just couldn't figure out if he was coming or going, if he had followed the Giroux trade with a Risto trade he could have launched the rebuild a year early. Instead he doubles down with an overpriced contract and trades for TDA.

Or the importance of having a coherent strategy.

The Giroux trade was a no brainer, not a lot of thought behind the idea he had to be moved. All he had to do was get the best return.

The Ellis trade actually took some thought and consideration. Moving on from a recent (ish) 2nd OA pick and a young defenceman to improve the d-core? Uncharacteristically bold of Fletcher. It's the kind of trade that could actually change the direction of a team, and for once the Flyers were trying to move on from players while they still carried some value.

 

[dats81]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1843779098868420937

 

[blackjackmulligan]

The Ellis trade made sense as long as they were in "win now" mode.

The Giroux trade was also a first rate move, Tippett has been a good return, and Barkey and Edmonton's 2025 1st.

CF just couldn't figure out if he was coming or going, if he had followed the Giroux trade with a Risto trade he could have launched the rebuild a year early. Instead he doubles down with an overpriced contract and trades for TDA.

Or the importance of having a coherent strategy.

Wasn't Chucks fault.

https://x.com/i/web/status/1843779098868420937

That is so overrated. It is about NHL age not actual age to me. Plus if your young and have average talent, so what

 

[Curufinwe]

I have to say the Flyers goaltending depth looks pretty good for a team that lost its former golden boy to the Canadian legal system. It can be boring and frustrating when the team takes another goalie in the mid/late rounds, but right now taking Ersson in the 5th (2018), Fedotov in the 7th (2016), Kolosov in the 3rd (2021) and Zavragin in the 3rd (2023) look like wise choices.

And next season they will have Bjarnason (2nd round, 2023) on the Phantoms.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I have to say the Flyers goaltending depth looks pretty good for a team that lost its former golden boy to the Canadian legal system. It can be boring and frustrating when the team takes another goalie in the mid/late rounds, but right now taking Ersson in the 5th (2018), Fedotov in the 7th (2016), Kolosov in the 3rd (2021) and Zavragin in the 3rd (2023) look like wise choices.

And next season they will have Bjarnason (2nd round, 2023) on the Phantoms.

Their goalie drafting is just about the one thing I really like about their approach

 

[Curufinwe]

Expecting Lucahnko to be the creative offensive center on a top 6 line at 18 is nuts, so it is something I can see Torts trying. And we saw last year he's happy to dump the Captain down to the 4th line. So if the Flyers are trailing 3-0 going into the 3rd on Friday, this lineup would not surprise me one bit.

Foerster-Poehling-Konecny
Tippett-Lucahnko-Michkov
Farabee-Frost-Brink
Laughton-Couturier-Hathaway

 

[Beef Invictus]

Just look at how long they kept Cates as 2C

 

[deadhead]

Just look at how long they kept Cates as 2C

With Couts injured the alternative was Laughton.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Their goalie drafting is just about the one thing I really like about their approach

I remembered something yesterday. Under Fletcher, they hired the person who did what I considered the best public analytical work on Goalies. It was his specific niche.

Is there a connection? Maybe a partial one? Hell if I know. But I'm sure keeping it in mind with these discussions.

*Edit* Missed a word.

 

[BiggE]

The team isn't moving Laughton.

Well duh, when it comes to elite, Laughton’s intangibles are the elitest of all elite things in the known Universe

 

[deadhead]

People obsess on stars and elite scorers, but they are pretty rare.
Looking at ES scoring the last two season (PP is more of a unit than player thang).
Total scoring over two years illustrates not only who can score, but who can stay on the ice.

The top four are special.
30 forwards scoring 100+.
28 forwards scoring 90-99
35 forwards scoring 80-89.

McKinnon (169), McDavid (160), Kucherov (154), Pastrnk (149)

Crosby (137), Matthews (134), Rantanen (132), Panarin (131), Draistail (129), Tkachuk (127), Pettersson (123), Point (123), Robertson (120), Nylander (118), Marner (115)

Hyman (113), Hagel (113), Verhaeghe (111), Keller (111), Stuzle (108), Nelson (108), Bratt (106), Hischier (106), B Tkachuk (106), Guentzel (105), Tuch (105), Miller (104), Aho (103), Schiefle (100)

D-men don't score nearly as much:
Karlsson (113), Morrisey (98), Hughes (95)
Josi (86), Toews (86), Makar (83), Dahlin (80), Dunn (78), Fox (78), Hedman (77), Dobson (75), Bouchard (73), Forsling (71), Heiskanen (71)
28 D-men scoring 60+
19 D-men scoring 50+

Flyers:
TK (91), Tippett (82), Farabee (80). Michkov?
If you can't land a 100+ guy, next best thing is 5 or more 80+ and 90+ guys.
So key going forward is guys like Brink, Frost, Foerster and eventually Luchanko stepping up.
Barkey is a long shot maybe Ciernak, no one else with this kind of scoring potential.

Sanehim (56) is the only scoring threat on defense
York, Drysdale need to step up.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

MacKinnon*

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Luchanko isn't anywhere near good enough defensively to compensate for low production. This isn't a guy likely to not score much but still outscore his opposition. You need to be a Couturier/Bergeron level player to do that; it is outlier territory. Luchanko is neither.

The chance that the Flyers keep him beyond 9 games is bad stuff.

I don’t think it’s a good idea to keep him up because once the games start the kids leash is going to be really short when he starts making mistakes. Then he will be playing 5 minutes a night and Torts will dress 7 defenseman and scratch him.
It’s a pointless exercise.

 

[renberg]

I don’t think it’s a good idea to keep him up because once the games start the kids leash is going to be really short when he starts making mistakes. Then he will be playing 5 minutes a night and Torts will dress 7 defenseman and scratch him.
It’s a pointless exercise.

Or Tortorella, attempting to justify his decision to keep him in Philly, leaves him out on the ice to be abused by opponents. This messes the kid up in a way that will take seasons to correct.

 

[freakydallas13]

People obsess on stars and elite scorers, but they are pretty rare.
Looking at ES scoring the last two season (PP is more of a unit than player thang).
Total scoring over two years illustrates not only who can score, but who can stay on the ice.

The top four are special.
30 forwards scoring 100+.
28 forwards scoring 90-99
35 forwards scoring 80-89.

McKinnon (169), McDavid (160), Kucherov (154), Pastrnk (149)

Crosby (137), Matthews (134), Rantanen (132), Panarin (131), Draistail (129), Tkachuk (127), Pettersson (123), Point (123), Robertson (120), Nylander (118), Marner (115)

Hyman (113), Hagel (113), Verhaeghe (111), Keller (111), Stuzle (108), Nelson (108), Bratt (106), Hischier (106), B Tkachuk (106), Guentzel (105), Tuch (105), Miller (104), Aho (103), Schiefle (100)

D-men don't score nearly as much:
Karlsson (113), Morrisey (98), Hughes (95)
Josi (86), Toews (86), Makar (83), Dahlin (80), Dunn (78), Fox (78), Hedman (77), Dobson (75), Bouchard (73), Forsling (71), Heiskanen (71)
28 D-men scoring 60+
19 D-men scoring 50+

Flyers:
TK (91), Tippett (82), Farabee (80). Michkov?
If you can't land a 100+ guy, next best thing is 5 or more 80+ and 90+ guys.
So key going forward is guys like Brink, Frost, Foerster and eventually Luchanko stepping up.
Barkey is a long shot maybe Ciernak, no one else with this kind of scoring potential.

Sanehim (56) is the only scoring threat on defense
York, Drysdale need to step up.

"If you can't land 100+ guys" it's not a case of "if", the Flyers don't even try to land these guys.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

People obsess on stars and elite scorers, but they are pretty rare.
Looking at ES scoring the last two season (PP is more of a unit than player thang).
Total scoring over two years illustrates not only who can score, but who can stay on the ice.

The top four are special.
30 forwards scoring 100+.
28 forwards scoring 90-99
35 forwards scoring 80-89.

McKinnon (169), McDavid (160), Kucherov (154), Pastrnk (149)

Crosby (137), Matthews (134), Rantanen (132), Panarin (131), Draistail (129), Tkachuk (127), Pettersson (123), Point (123), Robertson (120), Nylander (118), Marner (115)

Hyman (113), Hagel (113), Verhaeghe (111), Keller (111), Stuzle (108), Nelson (108), Bratt (106), Hischier (106), B Tkachuk (106), Guentzel (105), Tuch (105), Miller (104), Aho (103), Schiefle (100)

D-men don't score nearly as much:
Karlsson (113), Morrisey (98), Hughes (95)
Josi (86), Toews (86), Makar (83), Dahlin (80), Dunn (78), Fox (78), Hedman (77), Dobson (75), Bouchard (73), Forsling (71), Heiskanen (71)
28 D-men scoring 60+
19 D-men scoring 50+

Flyers:
TK (91), Tippett (82), Farabee (80). Michkov?
If you can't land a 100+ guy, next best thing is 5 or more 80+ and 90+ guys.
So key going forward is guys like Brink, Frost, Foerster and eventually Luchanko stepping up.
Barkey is a long shot maybe Ciernak, no one else with this kind of scoring potential.

Sanehim (56) is the only scoring threat on defense
York, Drysdale need to step up.

Just a heads up that the stats you're using include Empty Net scoring. If you wanted it without those, here's a link to those two seasons:

Evolving-Hockey.com | Standard Skater Stats

Skater Box Score, On-Ice, Relative to Teammate, and Zone Start metrics for the NHL

evolving-hockey.com

It changes quite a bit. NST, HockeyRef, and I believe the official NHL site all include ENs both ways. Evolving Hockey does not.

 

[deadhead]

"If you can't land 100+ guys" it's not a case of "if", the Flyers don't even try to land these guys.

Everyone tries to land these guys, they're hard to obtain.

MacKinnon (#1), McDavid (#1), Kucherov (#58), Pastrnk (#25)

Crosby (#1), Matthews (#1), Rantanen (#10), Panarin (UDFA), Draistaitl (#3), M Tkachuk (#6), Pettersson (#5), Point (#79), Robertson (#39), Nylander (#8), Marner (#4)

Hyman (#123), Hagel (#159), Verhaeghe (#82), Keller (#7), Stutzle (#3), Nelson (#30), Bratt (#162), Hischier (#1), B Tkachuk (#4), Guentzel (#77), Tuch (#18), Miller (#15), Aho (#35), Scheifle (#7)

But you don't necessarily need a top 5 pick.

 

[flyersnorth]

Everyone tries to land these guys, they're hard to obtain.

MacKinnon (#1), McDavid (#1), Kucherov (#58), Pastrnk (#25)

Crosby (#1), Matthews (#1), Rantanen (#10), Panarin (UDFA), Draistaitl (#3), M Tkachuk (#6), Pettersson (#5), Point (#79), Robertson (#39), Nylander (#8), Marner (#4)

Hyman (#123), Hagel (#159), Verhaeghe (#82), Keller (#7), Stutzle (#3), Nelson (#30), Bratt (#162), Hischier (#1), B Tkachuk (#4), Guentzel (#77), Tuch (#18), Miller (#15), Aho (#35), Scheifle (#7)

But you don't necessarily need a top 5 pick.

I haven't looked it up, but how many teams have won the Cup without at least one top 5 pick in the past 20 years?

Boston had Seguin, but I get that he wasn't the main cog.

Other than that, who?

 

[Curufinwe]

The cool thing about Nic D is that his terrible goal results aren't really affected by EN goals. Only 1:01 with an EN and 3:07 against an EN in two years. 0 GF, 1 GA.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

 

[Beef Invictus]

With Couts injured the alternative was Laughton.

Did Frost vanish?

 

[deadhead]

Just a heads up that the stats you're using include Empty Net scoring. If you wanted it without those, here's a link to those two seasons:

Evolving-Hockey.com | Standard Skater Stats

Skater Box Score, On-Ice, Relative to Teammate, and Zone Start metrics for the NHL

evolving-hockey.com

It changes quite a bit. NST, HockeyRef, and I believe the official NHL site all include ENs both ways. Evolving Hockey does not.

Wow, that really makes a difference with top scorers!

The top four are special.
17 forwards scoring 100+.
11 forwards scoring 90-99
28 forwards scoring 80-89.
Farabee (76), TK (76), Tippett (75), Frost (64), Laughton (47), Cates (41)

MacKinnon (155), McDavid (141), Pastrnk (130), Kucherov (123)

Matthews (119), Panarin (119), Crosby (116), Rantanen (115), Draistaitl (113), Point (112), Pettersson (109), Marner (104), Robertson (103), Nylander (103), B Tkachuk (103), Hyman (102), Bratt (100)

B Tkachuk (99), Nelson (98), Verhaeghe (97), Stutzle (97), Tuch (96), Keller (94), Hagel (91), Malkin (91), Skinner (91), Hischier (91), Thompson (90)

D-men don't score nearly as much:
Karlsson (101), Morrisey (93), Hughes (85)
Josi (80), Toews (80), Makar (77), Fox (72), Dobson (71), Dunn (70),
Dahlin (68), Hedman (66), Bouchard (66), Forsling (65), McAvoy (64), Ekholm (64), Heiskanen (62),
Nurse (61)

17 D-men scoring 60+
20 D-men scoring 50+
Sanheim (52) [Provorov (45), Walker (37)], York 33