2024-25 Roster Thread #1: The Beginninging

[Beef Invictus]

Well, let's see. We have people asserting that these marginal bottom-of-the-lineup decisions are so important. So, yeah, wins and losses with these allegedly better options in the lineup are relevant, no?

No.

Wins and losses are a terrible metric to judge individual players. This has been explained to you in detail, long ago. Have you chosen to forget?

 

[freakydallas13]

Well, let's see. We have people asserting that these marginal bottom-of-the-lineup decisions are so important.

Strawman.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Grans is in the lineup now. But our starting goalie is hurt. If the team loses a lot without better goaltending (As they tend to do), by GB's methodology that means Grans is bad. Even if he plays well, he is bad.

This is being presented seriously. This is what it takes to defend the Flyers these days.

 

[Lord Defect]

When you have legit fourth liners with a goon they are effectively playing short handed as the goon is looking for his hits and his fights. The goon doesn’t have a paycheck to make good passes or stick check.

When you have a serviceable fourth line that is getting either over used or misused, your scoring lines cannot produce and in turn your fourth line essentially has to be on the ice more.

 

[ajgoal]

1) I disagree there are only "marginal" upgrades available to absolute dusters like Deslauriers across the league

2) Even if there were only marginal upgrades, why wouldn't you want to make them? "Can't make big improvements so I'd rather make no improvements at all" is an incredibly stupid philosophy for building a competitive roster.

Sounds like someone never heard of the 1% philosophy/principle of marginal gains.

 

[Hanover Fist]

Your supposed to ice the lineup that gives you the best chance to win. In what world does Delo give you that? He a waste of a roster spot.

 

[ponder719]

In what world does Delo give you that?

1976, the same world our management has been trying to live in ever since.

 

[deadhead]

Delo doesn't play. I mean 42 minutes in 19 games?
Really, you can't find something more pertinent to whine about?

They know Delo and Johnson can't play, they're bodies at the end of the roster.
When they bring players up, they try to give them 10+ at forward and 15+ minutes on defense.
Grans 16:11 (1g), Andrae 16:01 (10g)
Lucanko 11:22 (4g), Richard 10:31 (6g)

Meanwhile
Johnson 11:12, Hathaway 9:47, DeLo 6:03

 

[Beef Invictus]

Delo doesn't play. I mean 42 minutes in 19 games?
Really, you can't find something more pertinent to whine about?

They know Delo and Johnson can't play, they're bodies at the end of the roster.
When they bring players up, they try to give them 10+ at forward and 15+ minutes on defense.
Grans 16:11 (1g), Andrae 16:01 (10g)
Lucanko 11:22 (4g), Richard 10:31 (6g)

Meanwhile
Johnson 11:12, Hathaway 9:47, DeLo 6:03

He does play though. That's the thing. You just confirmed he played. Despite having better players laying around, the team has given games to him. Shut off that roster spot to better players. Wasted games and time. It is absurd for his TOI to be a second above 0:00.

That's not something a rebuilding team should do, and yet they have, and you both defend and support it.

 

[Lord Defect]

Delo doesn't play. I mean 42 minutes in 19 games?
Really, you can't find something more pertinent to whine about?

They know Delo and Johnson can't play, they're bodies at the end of the roster.
When they bring players up, they try to give them 10+ at forward and 15+ minutes on defense.
Grans 16:11 (1g), Andrae 16:01 (10g)
Lucanko 11:22 (4g), Richard 10:31 (6g)

Meanwhile
Johnson 11:12, Hathaway 9:47, DeLo 6:03

You don’t give a 31 year body that can’t play a four year contract At 1.75 mil a year.
You play a kid at or near league minimum to save yourself cap room and let a kid get experience.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Nothing associated with Chevy's power steering systems can be called reliable.

Don’t tell me you drive a Found On Road Dead

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

It hurts my brain to think why are so many people wasting time arguing with trolls

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Deslauriers playing one single minute is too much and that’s before you get into the rest.

 

[mize370]

All this arguing in here but at least we can all agree on 1 thing. How much better this team would be if Briere got the Sanheim for Krug deal thru.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

For blank's sake, the guys playing 6-10 minutes per game, and the guys who are the 6th or 7th defensemen, AREN'T WHY YOU ARE WINNING OR LOSING.

These are the end of lineup fill-ins. Stop caring about Deslauriers playing over Lycksell for 6-10 minutes, when Lycksell is 8-18 when he plays with maybe 6 points every 26 games instead of 4 points every 26 games for D-lo in those minutes. And maybe some guys feel more comfortable with D-lo and there's a fringe benefit?

It's just ridiculous when people complain about the fringes of the lineups, then offer no solutions, and then when they finally utter a guy, like Lycksell, the record with him in the lineup shows he makes no difference. Maybe even worse.

 

[Beef Invictus]

For blank's sake, the guys playing 6-10 minutes per game, and the guys who are the 6th or 7th defensemen, AREN'T WHY YOU ARE WINNING OR LOSING.

Nobody has claimed this.

These are the end of lineup fill-ins. Stop caring about Deslauriers playing over Lycksell for 6-10 minutes, when Lycksell is 8-18 when he plays with maybe 6 points every 26 games instead of 4 points every 26 games for D-lo in those minutes. And maybe some guys feel more comfortable with D-lo and there's a fringe benefit?

It's just ridiculous when people complain about the fringes of the lineups, then offer no solutions, and then when they finally utter a guy, like Lycksell, the record with him in the lineup shows he makes no difference. Maybe even worse.

"End of lineup fill-ins" add up. Everything adds up. In a cap-enforced age of parity, efficiencies add up and make or break teams. The Flyers are deeply inefficient.

Wins and Losses tell you nothing about how a player is playing, or the impact that he makes on a roster. Konecny has more losses than Jesper Boqvist. According to your reasoning, this means that Boqvist is better than TK because he has more wins. You agree that Boqvist is better, I assume. Otherwise you have no faith in your own appraisal methods.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Cates: 7w, 8L
TK: 8w, 11L

Ghosts Beer has to believe that Cates is better than TK because his win rate is higher. I'm sure he believes that, and will agree, since he has such faith in his W/L appraisal method to determine which player is superior to another.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Whoa, did you guys know that Jesper Boqvist is better than McDavid? He has more wins.

 

[freakydallas13]

For blank's sake, the guys playing 6-10 minutes per game, and the guys who are the 6th or 7th defensemen, AREN'T WHY YOU ARE WINNING OR LOSING.

Strawman.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

For blank's sake, the guys playing 6-10 minutes per game, and the guys who are the 6th or 7th defensemen, AREN'T WHY YOU ARE WINNING OR LOSING.

These are the end of lineup fill-ins. Stop caring about Deslauriers playing over Lycksell for 6-10 minutes, when Lycksell is 8-18 when he plays with maybe 6 points every 26 games instead of 4 points every 26 games for D-lo in those minutes. And maybe some guys feel more comfortable with D-lo and there's a fringe benefit?

It's just ridiculous when people complain about the fringes of the lineups, then offer no solutions, and then when they finally utter a guy, like Lycksell, the record with him in the lineup shows he makes no difference. Maybe even worse.

Yeah, no one’s saying that and you know that.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

For blank's sake, the guys playing 6-10 minutes per game, and the guys who are the 6th or 7th defensemen, AREN'T WHY YOU ARE WINNING OR LOSING.

These are the end of lineup fill-ins. Stop caring about Deslauriers playing over Lycksell for 6-10 minutes, when Lycksell is 8-18 when he plays with maybe 6 points every 26 games instead of 4 points every 26 games for D-lo in those minutes. And maybe some guys feel more comfortable with D-lo and there's a fringe benefit?

It's just ridiculous when people complain about the fringes of the lineups, then offer no solutions, and then when they finally utter a guy, like Lycksell, the record with him in the lineup shows he makes no difference. Maybe even worse.

Having shitty bottom pairing defensemen was a contributing factor in why the Flyers didn't bring home a winnable Cup in 2010.

If you have players that only play 5 minutes a night, then other guys are playing more minutes than usual... and eventually burn out. Happened to Pronger/Kimmo/Carle/Coburn in 2010. Happened to Couts just last year.

This roster is significantly flawed. The organization can take steps to improve it by making marginal, say as small as 1%, gains wherever they can. Deslauriers is a good example. Too much money for a sub-replacement level player. Maybe a guy like Lycksell isn't much better at contributing to the team's success, but even if it's just 1% better, it's still better (doesn't have to be Lycksell; only using a name already in the discussion).

A 4th line of Cates-Poehling-Hathaway would be perfectly fine if the Flyers were capable of constructing a roster above them. Deslauriers and his $1.75M contract and his five minutes of ice time per game don't have to be part of the equation.

 

[FlyerNutter]

They will always try to have a Deslauries.

Briere admitted as such essentially saying you have to know the market you are in as well.

Again, these mistakes can be overcome. If you’ve got say a few top end guys to carry the trash.

Travis Konecny, Michkov, and Frondell aren’t going to do that. But we will be upset at them when they go up against the best players from the real top tier clubs, and fail.

Richards, and Carter would know that story well.

 

[deadhead]

Delo has no impact on anything, just a stalking horse for the discontented.

The problem is at center and goalie, and get the defense healthy.
Center can't be fixed as long as Frost has his head up his ass, and even then, they still need help.
Get York and Andrae back and you have the makings of a decent defense.
Ersson, Fedotov, and Kolosov, who knows?

Lycksell or Richard as the 12th forward, who cares?

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Delo has no impact on anything, just a stalking horse for the discontented.

The problem is at center and goalie, and get the defense healthy.
Center can't be fixed as long as Frost has his head up his ass, and even then, they still need help.
Get York and Andrae back and you have the makings of a decent defense.
Ersson, Fedotov, and Kolosov, who knows?

Lycksell or Richard as the 12th forward, who cares?

They’re actually all problems. Different levels of problems but still problems nonetheless. Hand waving these things away isn’t productive.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Delo has no impact on anything, just a stalking horse for the discontented.

To review, throwing away 6 Minutes/night this year and 8 Minutes/night last year at 5v5 does not matter at all. But if a young player is playing 90 seconds less per game, it is a completely unworkable situation in which you will stunt his growth and possibly dishonor his family for four generations.