2024-25 Roster Thread #1: The Beginninging

[VladDrag]

That is because the Flyers ruined him and dozens of others who never went on to produce elsewhere. At some point yo need to hold the player accountable for his dismal play. It isnt all on the FLyers.

For all the Frost fans, Any insight why you think he has never asked for a trade to get out?

I actually agree with you that it’s primarily on a player to prove that they can provide positive impact while on ice (positive impact is defined differently by each team). To develop a player, it’s pretty simple in my mind. Give them ice time in scenarios that would be most likely to produce positive impacts based off of that players history. They’ve done well with Owen Tippett for example, and they tried with Noah Cates. They’re doing their best to develop Drysdale out right now as well.

They have not prioritized Frost, and there’s really no denying that at this stage. Even still, we have two full seasons worth of data and observations that show he’s a middle of the lineup center. There's really no disputing that. There’s also some indications that given the right line mates, you would see an increase in production and offensive effectiveness, making the team better. **this year has been a different story. He’s not been good. **

I think one of the reasons why Frost is such a hot topic, certainly the case for me, is that it’s a prime example of the team not placing value on skill. It’s not that they’re particularly bad at development, it’s that they’re bad at identifying positive impact.

 

[deadhead]

I actually agree with you that it’s primarily on a player to prove that they can provide positive impact while on ice (positive impact is defined differently by each team). To develop a player, it’s pretty simple in my mind. Give them ice time in scenarios that would be most likely to produce positive impacts based off of that players history. They’ve done well with Owen Tippett for example, and they tried with Noah Cates. They’re doing their best to develop Drysdale out right now as well.

They have not prioritized Frost, and there’s really no denying that at this stage. Even still, we have two full seasons worth of data and observations that show he’s a middle of the lineup center. There's really no disputing that. There’s also some indications that given the right line mates, you would see an increase in production and offensive effectiveness, making the team better. **this year has been a different story. He’s not been good. **

I think one of the reasons why Frost is such a hot topic, certainly the case for me, is that it’s a prime example of the team not placing value on skill. It’s not that they’re particularly bad at development, it’s that they’re bad at identifying positive impact.

I don't think it's a matter of not liking skill, TK under Torts has steadily increased his PT and high impact TOI.
Richard was encourage to be aggressive on offense when he was promoted.

Frost plays more deliberately and at times the windows close on him too quickly.
Brink is similar, and he's struggled with puck possession for that reason.

Michkov does as well, and he's still adjusting to smaller windows, but Michkov is also more talented in tight areas, he's very agile, great puck skills and hard to knock off the puck. Michkov can do things that mere mortal forwards can only wish they could do.

Notice they all look better on the PP, where there's more space and time, and you can wait for players to come open for passes.

I think what they want from both Frost and Brink is to play with more urgency 5x5, keep the skates and puck moving. Faster decision making before windows close.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It is a 2-way street. Both can be at fault.

Regressing from what? What players in particular you referring too?

Have you seen the team? Foerster, Farabee, Frost, Tippett, Zamula, have all regressed. Likewise Cates, Couturier, Poehling, Seeler, but I won't be as militant about them for various reasons

 

[freakydallas13]

I don't think Frost is poor development

Yes, we're well aware of that.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yes, we're well aware of that.

Supposedly the Flyers are very good at development and haven't done anything wrong in years, as evidenced by the impressive results.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

And with the other guys getting healthy, he’ll be seen again at the end of the season.

Zombie Ellis claims another victim

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

Do we even let Drysdale back in the lineup? Guy has one NHL tool and he's too stupid to even understand how to use it.

 

[BiggE]

About to be 5 straight seasons with no playoffs and one series win since 2012.

But how dare we question the Flyers organization’s ability to develop NHL talent?! They are the unquestioned masters at turning talent into mediocrity. Yay team.

 

[BiggE]

Why do I question the Flyers ability to develop players?

Couturier was pegged as a defense first player and given no pp time for years despite the fact that he was seen as potentially the first pick overall in his draft year before he contracted mono. By the time they started to realize there was more to his game than checking, he had 5 years of hard wear and tear on his tires.

Sanheim, clearly a skilled player, has rarely been given an extended look on the pp. Hell, for years the organization favored the less talented Provorov and even Robert Hagg over TS.

They continually play Laughton at center when his skill set is much better utilized on the wing.

Time and time again, they put skilled players on lines with grinders and then wonder why those players don’t produce.

They see no value in a player like Ghost but fawn over a prospect like Hunter McDonald.

They pass over a Dman with 1D potential because they feel having York, Drysdale and Andrae doesn’t allow them to draft another sub 6’1 D, even though Drysdale has done squat, Andrae is still a wildcard and there is no guarantee that York, or any of the three, will even be here by the time a guy like Buium would be coming into his prime.

They keep Luchanko on the roster simply to make themselves feel smart and to try and justify the selection. The kid was nowhere near ready to play in the NHL.

There’s more, much more, but I think the point has been made.

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

About to be 5 straight seasons with no playoffs and one series win since 2012.

But how dare we question the Flyers organization’s ability to develop NHL talent?! They are the unquestioned masters at turning talent into mediocrity. Yay team.

I am getting concerned we will be drafting again in the 10-15 range next year, why can' this team just go on a 20 game losing streak and get the top 5 player they desperately need...perpetual mediocrity is just sickening at this point.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

I am getting concerned we will be drafting again in the 10-15 range next year, why can' this team just go on a 20 game losing streak and get the top 5 player they desperately need...perpetual mediocrity is just sickening at this point.

Careful what you wish for. The Flyers are a TK or Sanheim injury away from this realization. They are just good enough to be mediocre

 

[deadhead]

There is no "they." That's conspiracy theory type talk. "Those people."

Couts started out as an 18 year old on a deep team, then he was behind Giroux as the 1C, and competed with Schenn as the 2C. Given the lack of forward depth after 2012, G got the best forwards and Couts and Schenn competed for the "scrubs".
2014: Voracek and Simmonds on the 1st line, Read, Raffl, Umberger, Vinnie the next forwards.
2015: replace Umberger and Vinnie with Gagner and VdV
It was moving G to LW that allowed C to center a scoring line, not some plot against him.

AV was the one who didn't like Ghost, partially due to his style of play, but also b/c he needed time to adjust to his loss of speed after having both knees scoped.

Sanheim played on PP2 his first two full seasons, behind Ghost.
Ghost, Gustaffson and Provorov played ahead of him in 2020-21.
York and Yandle in 2021-22, TDA & York in 2022-23, Drysdale & York last season, but Sanheim still averaged 1:31.

Laughton plays center b/c of lack of centers, last year it was Laughton or Cates. This year Laughton is better than Frost or Cates so far.

We'll see if they made the right move between Jett and Buium. Both were areas of need, so they must have really liked Jett. He does fit what they want. They kept Luchanko on the roster to reward him for coming to camp prepared and give him a taste of the NHL. I doubt they were "trying to justify the selection," things this board obsesses over are probably ignored by most fans.

The real problem has been lack of talent depth (problem since 2012) due to Hextall's bad drafting in 2017 and 2018 and CF trading away too many first and second rd picks.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

There is no "they." That's conspiracy theory type talk. "Those people."

Couts started out as an 18 year old on a deep team, then he was behind Giroux as the 1C, and competed with Schenn as the 2C. Given the lack of forward depth after 2012, G got the best forwards and Couts and Schenn competed for the "scrubs".
2014: Voracek and Simmonds on the 1st line, Read, Raffl, Umberger, Vinnie the next forwards.
2015: replace Umberger and Vinnie with Gagner and VdV
It was moving G to LW that allowed C to center a scoring line, not some plot against him.

AV was the one who didn't like Ghost, partially due to his style of play, but also b/c he needed time to adjust to his loss of speed after having both knees scoped.

Sanheim played on PP2 his first two full seasons, behind Ghost.
Ghost, Gustaffson and Provorov played ahead of him in 2020-21.
York and Yandle in 2021-22, TDA & York in 2022-23, Drysdale & York last season, but Sanheim still averaged 1:31.

Laughton plays center b/c of lack of centers, last year it was Laughton or Cates. This year Laughton is better than Frost or Cates so far.

We'll see if they made the right move between Jett and Buium. Both were areas of need, so they must have really liked Jett. He does fit what they want. They kept Luchanko on the roster to reward him for coming to camp prepared and give him a taste of the NHL. I doubt they were "trying to justify the selection," things this board obsesses over are probably ignored by most fans.

The real problem has been lack of talent depth (problem since 2012) due to Hextall's bad drafting in 2017 and 2018 and CF trading away too many first and second rd picks.

Is Paul Holmgren still seen around the organization?

Is Bob Clarke still seen around the organization?

Are *insert long list of names here* still employed by the organization?

 

[deadhead]

Is Paul Holmgren still seen around the organization?

Is Bob Clarke still seen around the organization?

Are *insert names here* still employed by the organization?

Haven't heard hide or hair from either of them.
Think they spend most of their time golfing in Florida.
Hilferty brings out their corpses twice a year now.

 

[BillDineen]

https://x.com/i/web/status/1858268015059509562

 

[FLYguy3911]

Sanheim did not play ANY special teams under Dave Hakstol in two years so that is a lie. He got special teams work immediately after Hakstol got fired, went on a 50 point pace only to come back the next year under AV and not get PP time.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Haven't heard hide or hair from either of them.
Think they spend most of their time golfing in Florida.
Hilferty brings out their corpses twice a year now.

You’re in the front office on a daily basis? You know the inner workings? Quite bold to speak so definitively on the matter.

P.S. from a Draft scouting meeting this summer.

P.P.S. from Fedotov’s arrival.

 

[deadhead]

I think for Zamula it's a matter of acknowledging his limitations.

He lacks speed and it's easier to check a tall player off the puck, so he has to be aware of forecheckers and make quick decisions. Life comes at you fast in the NHL.

From that article:

"I think I started playing simple, very simple and hard in front of the net," he said. "I'm not trying to force plays and I think it has helped me a lot. Because from Game 1, I started forcing it and forcing it to make plays and it didn't work. Now I feel like I'm back in my game. I still need to make the plays."

 

[deadhead]

Sanheim did not play ANY special teams under Dave Hakstol in two years so that is a lie. He got special teams work immediately after Hakstol got fired, went on a 50 point pace only to come back the next year under AV and not get PP time.

He didn't as a rookie, but was up and down and only played 49 games, Ghost hogged the PP minutes.
1:02 on the PP his 2nd season, 0:54 his 3rd season, 0:33 his 4th.

 

[renberg]

Why do I question the Flyers ability to develop players?

Couturier was pegged as a defense first player and given no pp time for years despite the fact that he was seen as potentially the first pick overall in his draft year before he contracted mono. By the time they started to realize there was more to his game than checking, he had 5 years of hard wear and tear on his tires.

Sanheim, clearly a skilled player, has rarely been given an extended look on the pp. Hell, for years the organization favored the less talented Provorov and even Robert Hagg over TS.

They continually play Laughton at center when his skill set is much better utilized on the wing.

Time and time again, they put skilled players on lines with grinders and then wonder why those players don’t produce.

They see no value in a player like Ghost but fawn over a prospect like Hunter McDonald.

They pass over a Dman with 1D potential because they feel having York, Drysdale and Andrae doesn’t allow them to draft another sub 6’1 D, even though Drysdale has done squat, Andrae is still a wildcard and there is no guarantee that York, or any of the three, will even be here by the time a guy like Buium would be coming into his prime.

They keep Luchanko on the roster simply to make themselves feel smart and to try and justify the selection. The kid was nowhere near ready to play in the NHL.

There’s more, much more, but I think the point has been made.

This is the main issue with the organization. It only values certain skills. They draft players and attempt to mold these guys into slow, methodical grinders irregardless of what abilities they have.
When Giroux was traded he was asked who was the most skilled player on the club now that he was gone. He answered that without a doubt that it was Farabee. Since then we have not seen that play from him since the PTB want him to be a grinding prototype power forward which he is not and never will be. He has wheels and a shot that could be deadly in a fluid offense. Like others, his ability has been wasted here.
A similar thing is happening to MM. Some dunce last week said that Michkov has to change his style of play from the open ice looping and skating style of the KHL. Excuse me; why not create open ice with skating opportunities for the kid? When he gets out there, like last night with TK, exciting things happen.
The organization needs to recognize what successful hockey is in 2024. Draft players that can do those things and stop the decades of suppressing skills.

 

[Striiker]

Weird that the team has done absolutely everything perfectly - incredible coaching, fixed the culture, great drafting, great development, great signings/trades - and yet they’re one of the worst teams in the league and haven’t improved at all.

 

[Chinatown88]

Weird that the team has done absolutely everything perfectly - incredible coaching, fixed the culture, great drafting, great development, great signings/trades - and yet they’re one of the worst teams in the league and haven’t improved at all.

Literally click the thread cause you were the most recent post. Scroll up to skim the current page. Yup it's lap 283737261627373838. I don't miss much.

 

[Striiker]

Literally click the thread cause you were the most recent post. Scroll up to skim the current page. Yup it's lap 283737261627373838. I don't miss much.

Forgive me

I got bored while between BO6 games

 

[Flyerfan4life]

I am getting concerned we will be drafting again in the 10-15 range next year, why can' this team just go on a 20 game losing streak and get the top 5 player they desperately need...perpetual mediocrity is just sickening at this point.

#sameasiteverwas...

 

[Magua]

Weird that the team has done absolutely everything perfectly - incredible coaching, fixed the culture, great drafting, great development, great signings/trades - and yet they’re one of the worst teams in the league and haven’t improved at all.

Do you ever get tired of lying?

The Flyers have been trending up for 4 seasons. From 29th to 26th to 21st to 19th right now. 1 point out of the WC. If you don’t like a rebuilding team consistently improving, maybe you should stop being a fan.