Rumor: 2024-2025 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Talk | The Slow Crawl to the Season

henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
67,095
53,592
It is what we all want to see.
That’s all of life… but find me 4 Cup champs in the last 50 years without #1 and #2 level centers. It has happened, but it is rare for a reason. More rare than winning without #1D. #1D are still vitally important, but just shows how necessary it has historically been.
 

Foppa2118

Registered User
Oct 3, 2003
52,678
32,070
It's not center depth, it's top-6 talent (unless we are talking about the bloosers, who are an anomaly). Even still, we are overrating the loss of Kadri because we forget about Landy.

All that said, I am pretty f***ing happy we have a legit #2C locked up for the next few years.

You need a good team to win the Cup. It needs to be good everywhere.

Center depth is just one of the many parts you need. Good 1C, good 2C, good 3C, good 1W, good middle sixers, solid 4th line, good 1D, good 2D, good second pair, solid 3rd pair, good 1G.

We fixate on the 2C here because we didn’t have a good 2C for one Cup run, but even with a good 2C, all the injuries and off ice issues with that 22-23 team meant they weren’t good enough to win even with a good 2C. Because they weren't good enough in the other areas.

For all their center depth, Dallas and Seattle haven’t won with their groups either. Because they weren’t good enough in other areas.

If the 2C hole was filled on the Avs, then they’d have issues elsewhere, because their core players have aged into their UFA contracts, and they’re tight against the cap every year. They'd need to improve their wingers, or their #2D, or their bottom six, or their #4D or #5D.

Like how the Avs IMO need to improve their D core again to win now. It's a little top heavy again. It has issues defensively IMO, and I'm not sure the guys they brought in during the off season will address that. I think they may need some tweaks to it at the deadline.

It’s just one of many reasons why it’s so hard to win. Everything has to come together in one year, including how many roles on your roster you’re able to fill, with good players under a cap system.
 
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LOFIN

Registered User
Sep 16, 2011
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That’s all of life… but find me 4 Cup champs in the last 50 years without #1 and #2 level centers. It has happened, but it is rare for a reason. More rare than winning without #1D. #1D are still vitally important, but just shows how necessary it has historically been.
Maybe I'll delve into it tomorrow, but I'm more interested in the # of top-6 players in general. There are oddballs like the bloose obviously.

The issue is, that we never got to test the Avs theory of working without a "proper" #2C, and thus you are convinced it can't work without. Well, we haven't had Landy with us to try. Not even Nuke.

I'm pretty convinced, that you could put Jost as the #2C and we would be through Seattle if both Nuke and Landy had played, and Lehky would've been healthy. We would've given a better challenge to the Stars, if Landy and Nuke had been there, even conceding Mitts.

Like think about it, we had two top-6 players against Seattle G7, MacKinnon and Rantanen. Lehky might've been there, but injured.

Could we have won the championship with JT Compher as our #2C? Maybe not. But him playing with Rodriquez and Eller isn't just an indictment on our #2C position now is it.
 
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henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
67,095
53,592
Maybe I'll delve into it tomorrow, but I'm more interested in the # of top-6 players in general. There are oddballs like the bloose obviously.

The issue is, that we never got to test the Avs theory of working without a "proper" #2C, and thus you are convinced it can't work without. Well, we haven't had Landy with us to try. Not even Nuke.

I'm pretty convinced, that you could put Jost as the #2C and we would be through Seattle if both Nuke and Landy had played, and Lehky would've been healthy. We would've given a better challenge to the Stars, if Landy and Nuke had been there, even conceding Mitts.

Like think about it, we had two top-6 players against Seattle G7, MacKinnon and Rantanen.

I’ll always pull the old quote, when the data changes, change your mind. I’m open to being convinced, I just don’t recall many teams doing it. Hawks recently… but even in their thin years at center they had absurdly good bottom 6 centers and guys like Sharp and Richards trying to hold it down (I would count them as teams to pull it off though… especially the Sharp-Hanzus-Kane version).

I was well convinced of this prior to the Avs having issues at center. I’m sure my history supports that. I’m sure I’ve always screamed about center importance here… which is ironic because I was a wing who was utterly terrible at center.

We can get into a lot of individual situations and games. Even if the Avs beat Seattle, they weren’t moving on. This past season, the Avs were in the most lopsided series outside the first round. Now the Stars had a lot of center depth compared to most teams… it rose their floor. Their lack of a game breaker, which can come at wing, did them in eventually.
 
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John Mandalorian

2022 Avs: The First Dance
Nov 29, 2018
11,687
7,406
It's not center depth, it's top-6 talent (unless we are talking about the bloosers, who are an anomaly). Even still, we are overrating the loss of Kadri because we forget about Landy.

All that said, I am pretty f***ing happy we have a legit #2C locked up for the next few years.

The Red Wings are a perfect example of this. Without that high level 1C, it’s kind of an uphill climb.
 

PAZ

.
Jul 14, 2011
17,736
10,226
BC
Could you have a short term deferred contract? i.e. player signs a 2 year contract but a signing bonus is deferred to the 3rd year?
 

henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
Feb 24, 2012
67,095
53,592
Could you have a short term deferred contract? i.e. player signs a 2 year contract but a signing bonus is deferred to the 3rd year?
Yeah… but the time value money calculation isn’t that much. To really get a large lowering you need something like 15m paid over 5 years. Which that level could draw scrutiny from the league ala Kovalchuk.
 
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expatriatedtexan

Habitual Line Stepper
Aug 17, 2005
18,731
15,174
This deferred scheme 100% goes against the spirit of the salary cap. This is another path to Shea Weber like contracts.
Agreed 100%. But...

Agreed, but if it helps us with Rants or Makar before they outlaw it I'll allow it
Yeah, I was dumb to be upset when Vegas started exploiting the outer bounds of what teams could get away with. I now understand this is expected behavior as there is no real punishment other than a contract or trade gets nulled and you have to start over. Whatever it takes to lessen the pain of these two contracts I'm all onboard with.
 
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LOFIN

Registered User
Sep 16, 2011
16,923
24,003
This deferred scheme 100% goes against the spirit of the salary cap. This is another path to Shea Weber like contracts.
If the players are fine with getting their total salary eaten up by inflation, that's their problem. Real big credit to Jarvis for doing that, I wonder how many else will. It has been available as an option all the time, kinda like offersheets.
 

Balthazar

I haven't talked to the trainers yet
Sponsor
Apr 25, 2006
52,238
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If the players are fine with getting their total salary eaten up by inflation, that's their problem. Real big credit to Jarvis for doing that, I wonder how many else will. It has been available as an option all the time, kinda like offersheets.
TBH I don't give a shit if players like it or not that's cheating the cap and I hate it. If you can't afford the player trade him to a team that can afford him or let him walk.

And that's true for the Avs, too.
 

Hasbro

Family Friend
Sponsor
Apr 1, 2004
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GirardSpinorama

Registered User
Aug 20, 2004
21,840
10,833
Agreed 100%. But...


Yeah, I was dumb to be upset when Vegas started exploiting the outer bounds of what teams could get away with. I now understand this is expected behavior as there is no real punishment other than a contract or trade gets nulled and you have to start over. Whatever it takes to lessen the pain of these two contracts I'm all onboard with.

Uh New Jersey got hit hard when they pushed the boundary with Kovy. The smart thing is to do it first and never go overboard.
 

GoNordiquesGo

Registered User
Oct 1, 2016
783
723
Montreal, Quebec
Doesn't sound like a big planning tool... If player accept to have bonus deferred, they will ask for a bigger amount (B instead of A) to take into account time present value of money. The bigger amount (B) will be reduced for cap purposes, probably back to more or less the amount A... So lots of noise for not much result...
 

Colorado Avalanche

No Babe pictures
Sponsor
Apr 24, 2004
29,518
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Lieto
So how much did Zadina lose by terminating his contract with Detroit?

Edit: he forfeited 4.56M, signed one year in SJ for 1.1M and that was it. He lost 3.46M which is a lot for someone who made less than 5M in his NHL career.

Swiss he will make very good money and low tax but yes a big loss either way
 

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