Rumor: 2024-2025 Trade Rumors and Free Agency Talk | The Slow Crawl to the Season

[AvsFan4]

It’ll definitely be hard to win another with this group. A lot of things need to go right, a lot of which us casuals already know. This roster isn’t going to be the sexiest on paper to start the year, but neither was last year’s. CMac would need to go all in again like this past year. And I think we know the man can cook when it’s needed. That 1st year passive GM thing held true, but he did a lot up to the TDL.

Brought in Mittelstadt, Duhaime, Trenin, and Walker. 2 big fish and 2 depth guys. On the bright side, our defense looks damn solid to start the year all the way down to the #7 spot. Yes it’s soft and we’ll need to get a Larsson, Savard type at the TDL. Also, do we get last years Georgie, 2 years ago, or in the middle? That’s one of the biggest questions. Also the obvious in Landeskog and Nichushkin. For arguments sake, let’s say Landeskog comes back and he’s decent. A very good 3rd line quality of play. (Yes it sucks we have a $7M 3rd liner). Nichushkin the obvious. Great player. Ticking time bomb off the ice.

Drouin - MacKinnon - Rantanen
Lehkonen - Mittelstadt - Nichushkin
Landeskog - Colton - O’Connor
Wood - Kelly - Kiviranta/Kovalenko

Not too shabby at all. Now maybe there’s gonna be a cap casualty when they both come back, not sure how the math will work. Never been told I was good at math.

 

[Avs_19]

Also very on brand to have a snarky reply to any discussion.

(just poking fun here)

Hey, we all have a role to play!

 

[GoNordiquesGo]

The difficulty about talking "probablility" of winning a Cup is that in a league of 32 teams with as much parity as the NHL, even if everything is almost perfect, you probably won't have more than 20% probability of winning. So any sentence saying that we will likely not win another cup is an understatement and isn't technically meaning much... We could have a super strong lineup and it would still be very unlikely that we will win another cup...

I'm still a little surprised at the strength of the negativity... As it stands, the likelyhood is strong that Landeskog will be back and that Nichushkin will join the team. It even looks like the Avs might be able to somehow squeeze both in. So lets look at the lineup we would field vs the Cup winning lineup we had:

Forwards
Mack, Rant, Lando, Nich, Lehk, LOC = same (6 including 5 top 6 F)
Mitts replaces Kadri
Drouin replaces Bura
Colton replaces Compher
So the top 9 F group is very similar, but with the significant uncertainty surrounding Lando and Nich. 4th line is definitely weaker

D
Makar, Toews, G, Manson - same
So the same top 4.
3rd pairing is definityely weaker. The 5th Dman is actually THE biggest downgrade

G
Fourgiev replaces Kuemper

So all in all:
- Big downgrade in 5th D
- Big uncertainty in Lando + Nich
- Small downgrade in 4th line
- Ageing factor
+ I'm comparing post deadline Cup winning team with pre-deadline current team. So there is a possibility of overcoming some of the above downgrade at the deadline, although Cap will be VERY spare if we squeezed both Lando and Nich in.

My point is not to say that we have a better team. We don't. My point is to say that we still have a good team. A team that has a chance to win the cup. They won't be the contender #1. But they will be a contender. We should be happy and optimistic. Doesn't mean we can't try to improve, but the atmosphere should be much more positive than it is... Expectations are so unreasonable sometimes...

 

[the_fan]

Defense has been upgraded. Replacing JJ and Walker with Brannstrom, Kylington, de Haan is an upgrade. Plus we gonna get rested healthier Makar

 

[John Mandalorian]

The odds of this core winning another cup is extremely thin, and yes only winning a single cup with this core is a disappointment IMO.

For me, it comes down to letting Kadri walk and Nuke tanking two straight contention years as to why they never even came close to winning another one.

In this last year before Mikko destroys the Avs cap, damn near everything needs to go right (Landeskog/Nuke/Girard/Georgiev/Mitts/Health) for the Avs to even have a long shot at another cup.

Even Kadri is a symptom of the bigger problem which is bad succession planning. Too much was at stake to over rely on Jost. Too much was at stake over relying on Newhook.

Imagine signing Danault for slightly more than LAK. He would have overlapped Kadri by one year but they could have traded someone like Compher and it would have been better succession planning.

Or what about trading for Sam Bennett when he was available for cheap? It probably didnt happen because the Avs assumed Newhook was going to be what Jost wasnt. Sure, Newhook is/was better than Jost but what does that matter?

Mgt is learning. They didnt wait as long to trade Newhook as they did with Jost. But they're learning in increments that are too small. Its the same mistakes but the reaction time is slightly better.

 

[LOFIN]

Some of you guys really need to forget about Kadri

 

[sethro109]

Some of you guys really need to forget about Kadri

You're talking to the fan base that still talks about RoR. I think we still have a good decade ahead of us before Kadri not being brought back, will die as a talking point.

 

[The Merchant]

Some of you guys really need to forget about Kadri

 

[henchman21]

Some of you guys really need to forget about Kadri

You're talking to the fan base that still talks about RoR. I think we still have a good decade ahead of us before Kadri not being brought back, will die as a talking point.

Not having a 2C the follow season was a very major factor in not contending for a back to back. It also cost the biggest trade able asset in the org the 2nd year after. It is far less about Kadri specifically, and more about the failure of the organization to stay in contention with elite players.

 

[LOFIN]

Not having a 2C the follow season was a very major factor in not contending for a back to back. It also cost the biggest trade able asset in the org the 2nd year after. It is far less about Kadri specifically, and more about the failure of the organization to stay in contention with elite players.

In retrospect, things would've been done differently. That said, we 95% of the people here agreed with that offseasons moves. And frankly, if Nuke wasn't a drug addict, we wouldn't be having this conversation now either.

Kadri looked good with the Flames this year, but who knows how long that will continue. I find it funny how some people here are sobbing the loss of Kadri and making mock trades of bringing him back, yet at the same time being convinced that it's all over when Mikko's new deal kicks in.

 

[henchman21]

In retrospect, things would've been done differently. That said, we 95% of the people here agreed with that offseasons moves. And frankly, if Nuke wasn't a drug addict, we wouldn't be having this conversation now either.

Kadri looked good with the Flames this year, but who knows how long that will continue. I find it funny how some people here are sobbing the loss of Kadri and making mock trades of bringing him back, yet at the same time being convinced that it's all over when Mikko's new deal kicks in.

IMO it was very clear that going into the season without a 2C was a huge mistake. I voiced it loudly. 95% of people agreeing doesn’t really mean much. I wouldn’t agree that was the split either.

Nuke isn’t the difference. He’s a fantastic player, but neither of these past two teams have been close, even with him.

With Mikko we have a few year older team, no cap space, and no depth… it’s a different situation. A 3-4m raise hurts. Though I’d say odds are high it’s over anyway.

 

[LOFIN]

IMO it was very clear that going into the season without a 2C was a huge mistake.

I still maintain, more of an issue that we just didn't have top-6 players.

We didn't just lose our #2C, we lost our #1LW

 

[Foppa2118]

They could have had Crosby at 2C, and I don't think that decimated roster was winning in 22-23. In 23-24 they had Mitts at 2C who most were happy with.

So I don't think the lack of a true 2C for a brief time was as big an issue as it's made out to be. It was just one Cup run and it probably wouldn't have helped them anyway.

I also strongly believe they were going to make a 2C trade at the deadline that year, but something changed their calculus.

 

[henchman21]

I still maintain, more of an issue that we just didn't have top-6 players.

We didn't just lose our #2C, we lost our #1LW

Teams don’t win Cups very often without some depth at center. Once every 20 years or so. It is an absolute necessity when building a team.

 

[LOFIN]

Teams don’t win Cups very often without some depth at center. Once every 20 years or so. It is an absolute necessity when building a team.

It's not center depth, it's top-6 talent (unless we are talking about the bloosers, who are an anomaly). Even still, we are overrating the loss of Kadri because we forget about Landy.

All that said, I am pretty f***ing happy we have a legit #2C locked up for the next few years.

 

[henchman21]

It's not center depth, it's top-6 talent (unless we are talking about the bloosers, who are an anomaly). Even still, we are overrating the loss of Kadri because we forget about Landy.

All that said, I am pretty f***ing happy we have a legit #2C locked up for the next few years.

It is about center depth though. You can lack on the wings far easier because of the roles that centers have to play at both ends. Teams very rarely win without good center depth.

And I’d say the Avs realized they had to do something to address center with certainty. They traded a player and position they clearly didn’t want to so they could try to solve it. And I think Mitts will be fantastic for the Avs this year.

 

[LOFIN]

It is about center depth though. You can lack on the wings far easier because of the roles that centers have to play at both ends. Teams very rarely win without good center depth.

I'm sorry, but MacKinnon does almost f***all defensively and you know that. He's only a center in name. This is why we should stop distincting between centers and wingers, and instead talk about players who are able to play in the top-6 points production wise, or to compliment the other players defensively.

 

[henchman21]

I'm sorry, but MacKinnon does almost f***all defensively and you know that. He's only a center in name. This is why we should stop distincting between centers and wingers, and instead talk about players who are able to play in the top-6 points production wise, or to compliment the other players defensively.

MacK is so good offensively it doesn’t matter. He has and controls the puck as much as anybody. That is his game. But despite Bednar’s best efforts, MacK can’t play the whole game. Kadri could play defense, Compher could play defense, the various 4Cs here could play defense (Sturm was the best in that area though)… you need guys who can help defensively as centers. Or things fall apart systematically. Not against bad teams since they can’t exploit it, but against good teams. We’ve seen that directly here. Mitts can play defense and it will make a difference compared to two years ago.

 

[LOFIN]

MacK is so good offensively it doesn’t matter. He has and controls the puck as much as anybody. That is his game. But despite Bednar’s best efforts, MacK can’t play the whole game. Kadri could play defense, Compher could play defense, the various 4Cs here could play defense (Sturm was the best in that area though)… you need guys who can help defensively as centers. Or things fall apart systematically. Not against bad teams since they can’t exploit it, but against good teams. We’ve seen that directly here. Mitts can play defense and it will make a difference compared to two years ago.

I mean your argument about center depth kinda falls flat when you admit that our #1C isn't really a center at all lol.

We have had disagreements over this before and continue to do so to the future I guess. My position is, that we simply lost too much forward depth after the SC, and it was not Kadri's centering ability specifically. Kadri + Landy and frankly even Burakovsky. Too much top-6 ability gone. And we've never been able to come close to what we had then.

Mitts helps a lot because he's a great playmaker, and those are always rarer than players who can shoot the puck from a great feed.

 

[henchman21]

I mean your argument about center depth kinda falls flat when you admit that our #1C isn't really a center at all lol.

We have had disagreements over this before and continue to do so to the future I guess. My position is, that we simply lost too much forward depth after the SC, and it was not Kadri's centering ability specifically. Kadri + Landy and frankly even Burakovsky. Too much top-6 ability gone. And we've never been able to come close to what we had then.

Mitts helps a lot because he's a great playmaker, and those are always rarer than players who can shoot the puck from a great feed.

It doesn’t really. MacK sucks defensively but because he’s so good with the puck, everywhere… it doesn’t matter. It would be better if he was better defensively, but you deal with his warts. The Avs getting hammered the other 35-40 minutes is the problem. And it shows when a team has any depth to match up.

 

[LOFIN]

It doesn’t really. MacK sucks defensively but because he’s so good with the puck, everywhere… it doesn’t matter. It would be better if he was better defensively, but you deal with his warts. The Avs getting hammered the other 35-40 minutes is the problem. And it shows when a team has any depth to match up.

Notice how you said depth, and not center-depth

 

[henchman21]

Notice how you said depth, and not center-depth

But you know that’s what I meant. Seattle had Beniers, Gourde and Wennberg. It ate the Avs alive because they could just have Gourde attempt to contain make and let the other two control. Dallas, even with Mitts, was far superior.

 

[LOFIN]

But you know that’s what I meant. Seattle had Beniers, Gourde and Wennberg. It ate the Avs alive because they could just have Gourde attempt to contain make and let the other two control. Dallas, even with Mitts, was far superior.

The issue was that we lacked top-6 players, and the managed to suffocate our remaining ones.

I guess we should just trade Mikko for Alex Wennberg, maybe we would win the cup again this year with MacK, Mitts and Wennberg down the middle.

 

[henchman21]

The issue was that we lacked top-6 players, and the managed to suffocate our remaining ones.

I guess we should just trade Mikko for Alex Wennberg, maybe we would win the cup again this year with MacK, Mitts and Wennberg down the middle.

I’m not saying trade Mikko for Wennberg, no need for hyperbole. I’m saying you need center depth to win Cups. The evidence is overwhelming.

 

[LOFIN]

I’m not saying trade Mikko for Wennberg, no need for hyperbole. I’m saying you need center depth to win Cups. The evidence is overwhelming.

It is what we all want to see.