Rumor: 2024-2025 Trade Rumors and Free Agency - Offseason Edition

[RockLobster]

Not really sure if Marner realizes the position he and his camp are seemingly taking... Not willing to waive, and not even willing to negotiate an extension during the offseason? Is he really ready for the shit he's going to get from the fans?

He's probably thinking that it can't get that much worse than what he's already experienced from them.

 

[LOFIN]

He's probably thinking that it can't get that much worse than what he's already experienced from them.

If he had the mindset of William Nylander, then sure. He has already looked very vulnerable and has said questionable things to media before... And absolutely things can get worse if it starts to leak out that Leafs could have a good trade in place but he refuses to waive, and that he doesn't even want to negotiate and extension because he wants all the leverage he can for his next deal.

I mean it's a smart business decision by him (or rather by his agent), but it's going to get loud. Like we have never seen before.

 

[henchman21]

If he had the mindset of William Nylander, then sure. He has already looked very vulnerable and has said questionable things to media before... And absolutely things can get worse if it starts to leak out that Leafs could have a good trade in place but he refuses to waive, and that he doesn't even want to negotiate and extension because he wants all the leverage he can for his next deal.

I mean it's a smart business decision by him (or rather by his agent), but it's going to get loud. Like we have never seen before.

This is all it is. Everything else is just noise.

 

[pockets]

View attachment 879384


If I were the GM, this is my lineup for next year.

How’d you get by the CBA and sign Dowd for less than league minimum?

 

[henchman21]

How’d you get by the CBA and sign Dowd for less than league minimum?

Dowd is signed already and would be acquired with retention in that case.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Not really sure if Marner realizes the position he and his camp are seemingly taking... Not willing to waive, and not even willing to negotiate an extension during the offseason? Is he really ready for the shit he's going to get from the fans?

I mean he’s arguably already been the whipping boy for the Leafs struggles and gotten crazy amounts of shit from the fans. May as well control your own destiny on the way out.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Where did you bury Nuke's body?

He's on LTIR for now at this point. Doesn't count against the cap until he finishes at least 6 months in the program. At that point, either terminate him or trade him for nothing would be the move I'd make. Or absolute worst case scenario, have someone pull a Mark Stone for a while.

How about Christian Fischer, heinen or amadio over cogs? How about kylington?

I think Cogs will be back if he doesn't retire. Same with Jack Johnson. If they want to play another year, the Avs will bring them back. I do like Kylington as an option though.

Getting Chatfield at 2M would be a coup. I'd be pretty shocked if Carolina lets him go though.

Eh I dunno. I think he's a solid bottom pairing guy but don't think he's much more than that. $2M would be pretty reasonable to me.

The top 9 as a whole didn’t perform well enough. And I’d argue that both Trenin and Duhaime really didn’t do anything of substance for the team.

Health will always be an issue. If it isn’t LOC it will be someone else. Teams have to find ways through that to win series.

The Avs are simply not good enough today and need to get a couple steps better. Just maintaining won’t be good enough. Sliding back certainly hurt.

I agree Trenin/Duhaime didn't do enough for us. But I think it was more about fit then the players themselves. Trenin has always been looked at league wide as a very good bottom 6 forward, he's likely going to get $3M+ as a UFA this summer. And we got him for just a 3rd round pick. The point is more that getting solid bottom 6 forwards is usually fairly cheap, especially compared to Top 6 guys.

I dont really agree with the Avs simply not being good enough. They ultimately lost a very close series to Dallas, they lose game 6 in 2OT. Lost games 2 and 3 by just 1 goal as well. It was a close series and they just as easily could have ended up on the winning side.

Now losing Nuke will certainly hurt a lot and if Landy cant come back at a fairly high end level, its possible they simply are no longer good enough moving forward, arguably even likely.

How’d you get by the CBA and sign Dowd for less than league minimum?

I didn't. Traded for him with 50% retention from Washington.

The exact trade was COL 2024 1st for Dowd(50% retained) + VGK 2024 2nd.

 

[henchman21]

I agree Trenin/Duhaime didn't do enough for us. But I think it was more about fit then the players themselves. Trenin has always been looked at league wide as a very good bottom 6 forward, he's likely going to get $3M+ as a UFA this summer. And we got him for just a 3rd round pick.

I dont really agree with the Avs simply not being good enough. They ultimately lost a very close series to Dallas, they lose game 6 in 2OT. Lost games 2 and 3 by just 1 goal as well. It was a close series and they just as easily could have ended up on the winning side.

Now losing Nuke will certainly hurt a lot and if Landy cant come back at a fairlt high end level, its possible they simply are no longer good enough moving forward, arguably even likely.

The series wasn't all that close against Dallas. Dallas blew game 1 where they had sizable lead they just gave away. It could have easily been a series done in 4 games.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The series wasn't all that close against Dallas. Dallas blew game 1 where they had sizable lead they just gave away. It could have easily been a series done in 4 games.

Definitely don't agree with that... I mean, sure it could have been over in 4 games. Florida swept Carolina last year after all in four 1 goal games. Doesn't mean it wasn't an extremely close series.

All the data shows it was a close series.

 

[RockLobster]

Definitely don't agree with that... I mean, sure it could have been over in 4 games. Florida swept Carolina last year after all in four 1 goal games. Doesn't mean it wasn't an extremely close series.

All the data shows it was a close series.

The eyes show that Colorado consistently started out slow, almost always playing from behind, and just never could get enough going to make Oettinger uncomfortable.

They were supposed to be the "fresher team" after having a week off, but they seemingly started from behind the 8-ball and the only time they didn't, they still left the 1st period down and just never recovered.

 

[the_fan]

The top 9 as a whole didn’t perform well enough. And I’d argue that both Trenin and Duhaime really didn’t do anything of substance for the team.

Health will always be an issue. If it isn’t LOC it will be someone else. Teams have to find ways through that to win series.

The Avs are simply not good enough today and need to get a couple steps better. Just maintaining won’t be good enough. Sliding back certainly hurt.

We really didn’t have true 3C and 4C. Colton and Trenin aren’t really true centers. Then when Trenin was out we had to rely on AHL center Wagner

I think CMac needs to find a good defensively reliable 3C so we can move Colton to wing

LOC-???-Colton

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

The eyes show that Colorado consistently started out slow, almost always playing from behind, and just never could get enough going to make Oettinger uncomfortable.

They were supposed to be the "fresher team" after having a week off, but they seemingly started from behind the 8-ball and the only time they didn't, they still left the 1st period down and just never recovered.

They gave up the first goals which was certainly a problem, I wouldn't say that they necessarily started out slow.

I'd say the only game where they legitimately came out slow to start was game 4. But they gave up the first goal routinely which was absolutely a significant issue in the series. It enabled Dallas to push the game the way they wanted to play just about every time and forced the Avs to have to adjust.

EDIT: Just to expand further on the stats:

In the first period at even strength in the series, the Avs versus Stars was as follows:

Corsi - 101-87 Avs
Shots- 39-36 Avs
Scoring Chances - 44-35 Avs
High Danger Chances - 13-10 Stars
Expected Goals - 3.61-2.83 Stars(Where really the only big difference here was game 4)


I'd say they also pretty clearly paint the picture we all saw. Avs weren't doing enough to get to the middle of the ice with enough frequency. They were getting plenty of looks, plenty of scoring chances, but struggled to get to the high danger areas with enough frequency to really capitalize. But they still did a good job of generally carrying the play. This is also where Chris Tanev played such a huge role for the Stars IMO.

Dallas was the better team and deserved to win the series, but I think its just flat out wrong to suggest it wasn't still a close series. It went to 2OT in Game 6, and ignoring ENGs the series featured four one goal games.

 

[RockLobster]

They gave up the first goals which was certainly a problem, I wouldn't say that they necessarily started out slow.

I'd say the only game where they legitimately came out slow to start was game 4. But they gave up the first goal routinely which was absolutely a significant issue in the series. It enabled Dallas to push the game the way they wanted to play just about every time and forced the Avs to have to adjust.

Dallas was the better team and deserved to win the series, but I think its just flat out wrong to suggest it wasn't still a close series. It went to 2OT in Game 6, and ignoring ENGs the series featured four one goal games.

I don't want to speak for Henchy as to why he's saying it wasn't that close of a series, so I'll offer my own thoughts (and perhaps they coincide with his):

I don't think it was a close series either, and pointing out that G6 went to 2OT and removing the ENG's you have 4 1 goal games doesn't necessarily change that either, imo.

I don't think it was a close series because, outside of a few periods, and G5 itself, the Avs never looked like they were a dangerous threat. Dallas neutralized MacKinnon/Makar/Mikko for the majority of the series (again, save for moments here and there). This series was like nearly every other non-Cup year playoff series when we got exited--you shut down the Top Players, you beat the Avs. This has been a rather annoying constant every year, save for 2022.

Let me put it to you this way: In the 2022 WCF, the Avs swept the Oilers 4-0, that featured 3 of 4 games having either an ENG OR being a 1 goal game (that 1 goal game being G4 and Lehky's OT winner)...do you think that was a close series? Or did you watch that and see the Avs, despite being behind at times, pretty much controlling the games? I mean, in my opinion, I think you could look at G4 as the one that Edmonton probably should have won, but after Toews got that early goal in the 3rd, it started to feel inevitable that the Avs would either win or tie it, at least (and instead they got a lead only to then surrender it and go to OT anyway but still win).


After having some time to reflect, I don't think the Avs really were all that well prepared for this series, or at least to go against Dallas. I had mentioned that I wanted Vegas instead of Dallas, because I don't like going against DeBoer teams...he just is too good at neutralizing the Avs and their specific gameplan. I think we would've had a better shot against Vegas (though, still no guarantee).

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I don't want to speak for Henchy as to why he's saying it wasn't that close of a series, so I'll offer my own thoughts (and perhaps they coincide with his):

I don't think it was a close series either, and pointing out that G6 went to 2OT and removing the ENG's you have 4 1 goal games doesn't necessarily change that either, imo.

I don't think it was a close series because, outside of a few periods, and G5 itself, the Avs never looked like they were a dangerous threat. Dallas neutralized MacKinnon/Makar/Mikko for the majority of the series (again, save for moments here and there). This series was like nearly every other non-Cup year playoff series when we got exited--you shut down the Top Players, you beat the Avs. This has been a rather annoying constant every year, save for 2022.

Let me put it to you this way: In the 2022 WCF, the Avs swept the Oilers 4-0, that featured 3 of 4 games having either an ENG OR being a 1 goal game (that 1 goal game being G4 and Lehky's OT winner)...do you think that was a close series? Or did you watch that and see the Avs, despite being behind at times, pretty much controlling the games? I mean, in my opinion, I think you could look at G4 as the one that Edmonton probably should have won, but after Toews got that early goal in the 3rd, it started to feel inevitable that the Avs would either win or tie it, at least (and instead they got a lead only to then surrender it and go to OT anyway but still win).


After having some time to reflect, I don't think the Avs really were all that well prepared for this series, or at least to go against Dallas. I had mentioned that I wanted Vegas instead of Dallas, because I don't like going against DeBoer teams...he just is too good at neutralizing the Avs and their specific gameplan. I think we would've had a better shot against Vegas (though, still no guarantee).

But the stats also very clearly suggest this. The Avs dominated possession the entire time pretty much in that Edmonton series.

That simply isn't true against Dallas. The Avs were the ones who had the puck the most in the series(Though it was again generally pretty even). What Dallas did better then the Avs was get to the high danger areas, and actually capitalizing on chances early in games. Which had an impact.

I'd actually say the Dallas series reminded me a lot of the Seattle series in 2023. The Avs were generally the better team and carried the play, but Seattle capitalized on its chances early in the series every single game and thus they were able to dictate the way the rest of the games played out. Dallas was able to do the same thing against us.

I think this series definitely went on to show how valuable scoring first is in the playoffs. Especially when you have two teams that particularly like to dictate the way the game is played and two teams that play very different styles. Scoring first and being able to dictate the game in that regard is huge and it was a big factor for Dallas.


But anyway, I dont really think we're ever going to agree here. To me as a stats guy it was clearly a pretty close series. Dallas had the advantage and deserved the win, but I think its being disingenuous to suggest it wasn't close.

 

[RockLobster]

But the stats also very clearly suggest this. The Avs dominated possession the entire time pretty much in that Edmonton series.

That simply isn't true against Dallas. The Avs were the ones who had the puck the most in the series(Though it was again generally pretty even). What Dallas did better then the Avs was get to the high danger areas, and actually capitalizing on chances early in games. Which had an impact.

I'd actually say the Dallas series reminded me a lot of the Seattle series in 2023. The Avs were generally the better team and carried the play, but Seattle capitalized on its chances early in the series every single game and thus they were able to dictate the way the rest of the games played out. Dallas was able to do the same thing against us.

I think this series definitely went on to show how valuable scoring first is in the playoffs. Especially when you have two teams that particularly like to dictate the way the game is played and two teams that play very different styles. Scoring first and being able to dictate the game in that regard is huge and it was a big factor for Dallas.


But anyway, I dont really think we're ever going to agree here. To me as a stats guy it was clearly a pretty close series. Dallas had the advantage and deserved the win, but I think its being disingenuous to suggest it wasn't close.

But you even commented on what Dallas did well...they got to the high danger areas. The Avs can have the puck all they want, but if they don't engage and work toward those high danger areas, what good is having the puck?

I suspect you're right, because I just don't think in hindsight this series was all that close. They got out to a slow start in G1, we thought they'd play better in G2 and instead they started slow for P1 & P2; then in G3 they showed in the 1st but still went in to the intermission behind and just never quite recovered. G4 was a complete and total disaster. G5 they finally played a much better game and it showed.

G6 was there for the taking, but the longer the game went on (even before OT), it just felt like Dallas wasn't going home to play a G7. Hell, the Avs got straight up gifted that no-goal call in the first OT, and instead of it serving as a rallying point, they seemed to find a way to tuck their tails even further between their legs. I know, I know, they had some moments where it could have ended, but it didn't. I know they didn't get "the bounces" they needed, but they also weren't sustaining that pressure consistently enough to force those bounces their way.

 

[henchman21]

We really didn’t have true 3C and 4C. Colton and Trenin aren’t really true centers. Then when Trenin was out we had to rely on AHL center Wagner

I think CMac needs to find a good defensively reliable 3C so we can move Colton to wing

LOC-???-Colton

Colton isn't going anywhere... this is a wish in one hand, shit in another.. see which gets filled up first.

Definitely don't agree with that... I mean, sure it could have been over in 4 games. Florida swept Carolina last year after all in four 1 goal games. Doesn't mean it wasn't an extremely close series.

All the data shows it was a close series.

All strengths xGF% was nearly 60-40 Stars. It really wasn't that close. Outside game 1 and game 5, the Avs pretty much created no danger. All situations, only game 1 favored the Avs in xGF%. I see it as similar to the Rangers/Panthers series. It went 6 game, but it was very clear who the better team was.

The Avs had the puck more in the series (not by as much as Corsi would make you think though), but they did absolutely nothing dangerous with it. Another example of it:

https://x.com/i/web/status/1791841652325142588

 

[the_fan]

Colton isn't going anywhere... this is a wish in one hand, shit in another.. see which gets filled up first.

I didn’t say get rid of Colton, I said move him to wing by getting a real 3C

 

[henchman21]

I didn’t say get rid of Colton, I said move him to wing by getting a real 3C

By anywhere I mean anywhere. He's not moving teams, he's not moving positions... he may move to a new condo, so maybe I'm wrong.

Colton is the 3C next season unless there is an injury. The Avs committed to him and acquired him specifically for that role. When the Avs do that, they give a very long leash even if it is clearly not working. Which I don't think this the case, he was up and down in the role. Colton may not stay there for his whole contract, but he's certainly the guy there to start next season.

 

[the_fan]

By anywhere I mean anywhere. He's not moving teams, he's not moving positions... he may move to a new condo, so maybe I'm wrong.

Colton is the 3C next season unless there is an injury. The Avs committed to him and acquired him specifically for that role. When the Avs do that, they give a very long leash even if it is clearly not working. Which I don't think this the case, he was up and down in the role. Colton may not stay there for his whole contract, but he's certainly the guy there to start next season.

Yeah you’re probably right. I’m just stating my opinion that Colton should be a wing and wishing we would get a better 3C, but maybe getting LOC back will help the 3rd line

 

[henchman21]

Yeah you’re probably right. I’m just stating my opinion that Colton should be a wing and wishing we would get a better 3C, but maybe getting LOC back will help the 3rd line

Yeah I totally get that opinion and it is probably even correct. I just don't think it is especially realistic next season. Just like trading Mikko. There is certainly merit in the discussion, we just shouldn't have any illusions of it happening.

 

[hockeyfish]

I didn’t say get rid of Colton, I said move him to wing by getting a real 3C

The lack of cap space and tradable assets is really going to make upgrading any position hard. Best to keep expectations low.

 

[the_fan]

The lack of cap space and tradable assets is really going to make upgrading any position hard. Best to keep expectations low.

Yeah, there is some hope maybe Ritchie can turn into a solid NHL player in couple of years. Maybe he’ll be that 3C I’m talking about

 

[Muffin]

They gave up the first goals which was certainly a problem, I wouldn't say that they necessarily started out slow.

I'd say the only game where they legitimately came out slow to start was game 4. But they gave up the first goal routinely which was absolutely a significant issue in the series. It enabled Dallas to push the game the way they wanted to play just about every time and forced the Avs to have to adjust.

EDIT: Just to expand further on the stats:

In the first period at even strength in the series, the Avs versus Stars was as follows:

Corsi - 101-87 Avs
Shots- 39-36 Avs
Scoring Chances - 44-35 Avs
High Danger Chances - 13-10 Stars
Expected Goals - 3.61-2.83 Stars(Where really the only big difference here was game 4)


I'd say they also pretty clearly paint the picture we all saw. Avs weren't doing enough to get to the middle of the ice with enough frequency. They were getting plenty of looks, plenty of scoring chances, but struggled to get to the high danger areas with enough frequency to really capitalize. But they still did a good job of generally carrying the play. This is also where Chris Tanev played such a huge role for the Stars IMO.

Dallas was the better team and deserved to win the series, but I think its just flat out wrong to suggest it wasn't still a close series. It went to 2OT in Game 6, and ignoring ENGs the series featured four one goal games.

Or their goalie sucks. Been a problem being down every game dating back to the regular season.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Rants to Boston for Swayman, Poitras, Beecher. Convince them he can play C

 

[BobRossColton]

How do we get the 10th pick from the devil's?

Although I think it'd be more interesting to go after Buffalo's 11th or Philly 12th.