2024-2025 Blues Trade Proposals Thread.

[BleedBlue14]

I want to go on tangent here from good point you make. EF asked an interesting question last week on his pod- would you rather have Ottawa roster or Boston's? Sens arguably have more talent, and have since at least Bergeron and Krecji retired, but Boston has sustained winning culture. They play with structure and effort that you just don't see out of bottom teams. Sens have been a mess for years. Swapping out Brady ain't gonna change that.

And while it's still too early to see whether it will work, I think this is what DA has been trying to sustain here in refusing to do full teardown rebuild.

Culture/Identity/System It's all kind of the same thing. I think Buffalo is struggling through this alot right now as well. There has to be a balance there, there's only one puck. Reminiscent of the 2019 team. All of the talent was there that they needed. But it's hard to place everyone into the spot in which they fit in without a complete buy-in or without getting the right pieces magically. Stacking alot of talent is great. But aside from the McDavids/Crosby's etc and even with them it can only carry you so far.

 

[Reality Czech]

I bolded and underlined one part, and that I agree with that I'd bet going into battle in that facet Brady is a better option.

I also underlined another part because it's something Brian touched on earlier. Ottawa's defensive/goaltending struggles are not purely to blame on their defense and goalies. If you watch alot of the Senators breakdowns (I'll pinpoint Brady because this is where I focused when I did this exercise last year when this was a topic) their forwards are all over the place. There is no structure at all, maybe it's changed this year under new coaching, I haven't gotten to catch a game this year. But I specifically remember watching a highlight video of goals against in one game and 3 of them Brady specifically was all over the place, it was a discombobulated mess.

Fair points. I can't really speak to that regard but I refuse to believe Kyrou is any better defensively. He's gotten better than he used to be, but he's been out of position plenty of times on goals as well. I would be willing to call the defensive side a wash as neither guy will be a Selke candidate any time soon.

Regarding Ottawa, it could also be a coaching issue. I've heard DJ Smith was a popular coach among the players but not sure what kind of a tactician and positioning coach he is. Let's see how Ottawa does this year. If they underachieve yet again, then big changes might be coming up there. They've also made two brutal trades in recent years for DeBrincat and Chychrun which have set them back. Seems like they've had bad coaching and management lately.

 

[Memento]

To bring the trade forum back to sanity, I wonder if anyone wants to take a chance on Corson Ceulemans (Columbus right-handed defenseman)? I was a huge fan of him and Carson Lambos in their draft year. I'd ask what it would take on the trade forum, but I already asked on the Saad/Columbus thread, and I'm waiting for a response.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

To bring the trade forum back to sanity, I wonder if anyone wants to take a chance on Corson Ceulemans (Columbus right-handed defenseman)? I was a huge fan of him and Carson Lambos in their draft year. I'd ask what it would take on the trade forum, but I already asked on the Saad/Columbus thread, and I'm waiting for a response.

He's probably too young to completely write off, but he's done nothing since he was drafted to suggest he will be quality NHLer. If they want someone like Alexandrov I'd liely do it. I wouldn't pay much for him though.

 

[Memento]

He's probably too young to completely write off, but he's done nothing since he was drafted to suggest he will be quality NHLer. If they want someone like Alexandrov I'd liely do it. I wouldn't pay much for him though.

Only twenty-one. Yeah, I'd do it for Alexandrov, and I was an Alexandrov fan when he was drafted.

 

[Majorityof1]

Tkachuk has 19 more points than Kyrou over the past three years while playing 1 more game, so I'd argue he's actually better offensively than Kyrou although stylistically different. I'm not convinced that Kyrou will ever be the top star on his team at any point in his career while Brady arguably already is. And he hit the ground running as an 18 year old, which few players can do. I think he's the kind of player who wants to be a leader and put the team on his back whereas I don't get that sense from Kyrou at all.

I said it before but 3rd in the league in hits and 4th in shots. That's nothing to scoff at. He's gonna make an impact somehow pretty much every game, while Kyrou tends to disappear at times and scores in bunches. I'd prefer the power forward who can get to the dirty areas rather than the perimeter sniper, but that's just me.



What's silly is everyone acting like Tkachuk vs. Kyrou is an even close comparison. And I thought I was considered the homer around here lol. If we can upgrade a position, we should consider doing it if the price is manageable.

19 points over 3 years is 6 points a year. If Kyrou us so 1-dimensional and streaky vs Tkachuk bring so dominant, you think it would be more than 6 points a year difference.

Nobody is saying Tkachuk isn't better. But giving up a first round pick + for 3 less years for 6 points a season and some possible intangibles?!?!?

You aren't even addressing the contract and acquisition cost. We get it. You like Grr I'm a togh guy, mean Neanderthal, when men were real men and all that bullshit. But the numbers on ice don't justify the extra acquisition cost and less contract term.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

I've watched more Senators hockey over the last two seasons than any other non-Blues team. I kind of adopted them as my Eastern Conference team because I'd like to see that franchise do something positive after years of being awful. Brady is a FRUSTRATING player to watch. He's undisciplined at times. He's obnoxious all the time. He'll get the job done, but I don't think I'd pay the price the Sens would ask.

 

[Reality Czech]

I've watched more Senators hockey over the last two seasons than any other non-Blues team. I kind of adopted them as my Eastern Conference team because I'd like to see that franchise do something positive after years of being awful. Brady is a FRUSTRATING player to watch. He's undisciplined at times. He's obnoxious all the time. He'll get the job done, but I don't think I'd pay the price the Sens would ask.

So we found something him and Kyrou have in common.

 

[Brian39]

I don't really wanna get into an argument over this because every one is entitled to their own opinion, but I will say that not all dimensions are equal. Lots of players are fast, but it doesn't always translate to success.

Lots of players are physical, but it doesn't always translate to success.

And if Brady isn't a dominant player, then who is? He's close to a PPG guy who can bully almost anyone in the league physically. How many other players can you say that about? He was also 3rd in the league in hits and 4th in SOG all while scoring 37g 37a and a +1 on a poor defensive team. Sounds pretty dominant to me. Kyrou's strength is offense, but Tkachuk is probably even better offensively while bringing much more to the table in other areas.

His older brother for starters. But also, guys who score 50+ goals, score 100+ points, get votes for MVP, get votes for Norris, get votes for Selke, guys who dramatically outscore the other team when on the ice, and/or drag mediocre teams to the playoffs.

Brady doesn't take over games at the degree or frequency that many dominant (future HoF) players currently in the league do. He's a great player, but he's not the undeniable, uncontainable force that a dominant player is. He's never finished top 20 in goals, assists, or points. "Dominant" is a hell of a descriptor.

He's a great player, but he is not a dominant player. He's amazing to own in a bangers fantasy league, but huge hit/shot totals are less valuable in actual hockey than they are in my fantasy hockey league. I don't equate hits and shots with whether a player is dominant on the ice.

I'd say Brady's a better bet to score 50 someday than Kyrou, who is still extremely streaky and goes through stretches where he doesn't score much. When Kyrou isn't scoring, he doesn't bring much to the table, which can't be said about Brady. Sure he might need to work on his discipline, but I bet teammates love going to battle with that guy.

I'd be extremely surprised if he ever scores 50 because I don't think he has the shooting ability. I wouldn't be remotely surprised if he outscores Kyrou more often than not and averages more goals per season. If I were betting on 'most 35+ or 40+ goal seasons over their careers I'd put my money on Brady. But I don't think his shot is good enough to sustain a season long shooting percentage high enough to hit 50 goals. I think Brady is the guy more likely to post those consistent 35-40 goal seasons while Kyrou is a guy that could shoot the lights out to hit 50 goals one year and then regress down to the high 20s or low 30s the next.

I wouldn't bet even money on either to ever hit 50 though.

Ottawa's struggles mostly have to do with crappy defense and goaltending, neither of which Brady can be blamed for. I would argue that their division has been tougher than ours lately with 4 legit contenders within the division, and it's also true that teams kind of mail it in once it's clear they're not making the playoffs. In any case, the fact that he was chosen as captain at the age of 22 tells me that management values his character. We would be fortunate to land a player of his caliber and I hope it happens someday.

Defense is a team effort and Brady's is pretty damn poor. I absolutely blame my captain for piss poor defense efforts (see most of my posts discussing Schenn for the last year).

Poor starts have plagued that team for years. They've had a losing record in their first 10 games in each of the last 4 seasons. They have consistently put themselves into a hole quickly. That organization has been a mess for years, not just in garbage time.

Again, I like Brady the player a ton. This isn't a 'he sucks' post. But I don't think he's an elite player. He has legitimate flaws to his game. While he and Kyrou are very different stylistically, I don't think that their overall positive impacts are all that different. I'd take Brady over Kyrou in a vacuum, but I don't see a massive chasm in value that offsets Brady's noticeably worse contract situation.

Now, I would be totally on board with trying to acquire him if he does become available due to a trade request and/or Ottawa failing again and deciding to make a drastic move. But I'd be seeking to move a futures package vs swapping Kyrou for him.

 

[Reality Czech]

Lots of players are physical, but it doesn't always translate to success.



His older brother for starters. But also, guys who score 50+ goals, score 100+ points, get votes for MVP, get votes for Norris, get votes for Selke, guys who dramatically outscore the other team when on the ice, and/or drag mediocre teams to the playoffs.

Brady doesn't take over games at the degree or frequency that many dominant (future HoF) players currently in the league do. He's a great player, but he's not the undeniable, uncontainable force that a dominant player is. He's never finished top 20 in goals, assists, or points. "Dominant" is a hell of a descriptor.

He's a great player, but he is not a dominant player. He's amazing to own in a bangers fantasy league, but huge hit/shot totals are less valuable in actual hockey than they are in my fantasy hockey league. I don't equate hits and shots with whether a player is dominant on the ice.



I'd be extremely surprised if he ever scores 50 because I don't think he has the shooting ability. I wouldn't be remotely surprised if he outscores Kyrou more often than not and averages more goals per season. If I were betting on 'most 35+ or 40+ goal seasons over their careers I'd put my money on Brady. But I don't think his shot is good enough to sustain a season long shooting percentage high enough to hit 50 goals. I think Brady is the guy more likely to post those consistent 35-40 goal seasons while Kyrou is a guy that could shoot the lights out to hit 50 goals one year and then regress down to the high 20s or low 30s the next.

I wouldn't bet even money on either to ever hit 50 though.



Defense is a team effort and Brady's is pretty damn poor. I absolutely blame my captain for piss poor defense efforts (see most of my posts discussing Schenn for the last year).

Poor starts have plagued that team for years. They've had a losing record in their first 10 games in each of the last 4 seasons. They have consistently put themselves into a hole quickly. That organization has been a mess for years, not just in garbage time.

Again, I like Brady the player a ton. This isn't a 'he sucks' post. But I don't think he's an elite player. He has legitimate flaws to his game. While he and Kyrou are very different stylistically, I don't think that their overall positive impacts are all that different. I'd take Brady over Kyrou in a vacuum, but I don't see a massive chasm in value that offsets Brady's noticeably worse contract situation.

Now, I would be totally on board with trying to acquire him if he does become available due to a trade request and/or Ottawa failing again and deciding to make a drastic move. But I'd be seeking to move a futures package vs swapping Kyrou for him.

Let's just say agree to disagree. Your anti-Schenn and pro-Kyrou opinions are well known. It's silly to blame a captain for a team's defensive struggles. He's not the coach. You saying his effort is "piss poor" is probably not accurate. Just like Schenn's issue was not due to a lack of effort. You make it sound like these guys aren't event trying out there which I find hard to believe. I still believe you overstated Schenn's defensive weaknesses and are likely doing the same with Brady but I ain't gonna argue about it.

If Ottawa gets over the hump this year and makes the playoffs, maybe people's opinions will change. They look to have a better roster than we do this year and Brady is off to a hot start. 40+ goals incoming.

Clearly your standards of dominant and elite are higher than most. At least we agree he's a more valuable player than Kyrou, who's at least as inconsistent if not more.

 

[Celtic Note]

Let's just say agree to disagree. Your anti-Schenn and pro-Kyrou opinions are well known. It's silly to blame a captain for a team's defensive struggles. He's not the coach. You saying his effort is "piss poor" is probably not accurate. Just like Schenn's issue was not due to a lack of effort. You make it sound like these guys aren't event trying out there which I find hard to believe. I still believe you overstated Schenn's defensive weaknesses and are likely doing the same with Brady but I ain't gonna argue about it.

If Ottawa gets over the hump this year and makes the playoffs, maybe people's opinions will change. They look to have a better roster than we do this year and Brady is off to a hot start. 40+ goals incoming.

Clearly your standards of dominant and elite are higher than most. At least we agree he's a more valuable player than Kyrou, who's at least as inconsistent if not more.

I think you have a blind spot for Schenn.

 

[Mike Liut]

I’d be interested in Huberdeau if Calgary retained 50%. Always liked him. 6 years left on his contract after this year takes him to age 37. He’d be a great 2C when RT returns.

Edit: Oh crap, looks like he’s playing LW for Calgary now. I haven’t watched him much since his Panther days. Maybe this isn’t such a good idea after all lol.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I’d be interested in Huberdeau if Calgary retained 50%. Always liked him. 6 years left on his contract after this year takes him to age 37. He’d be a great 2C when RT returns.

Seeing how he's not a Center, he's completely broken as a player, and hes currently playing 3rd line LW on a team who needs top 6 centers. I don't think he makes sense at all.

 

[Memento]

Well, just posted the Ceulemans value on the trade board. Right now, I'm hearing a second round pick for him. I heard a fifth on the Saad thread. Hopefully there will be more thoughts; I really liked Ceulemans and Carson Lambos in their draft years, and I think picking Ceulemans as a reclamation project for a pick or left-handed defense/wing prospect makes sense, considering our precarious right-handed defense depth.

 

[Mike Liut]

Seeing how he's not a Center, he's completely broken as a player, and hes currently playing 3rd line LW on a team who needs top 6 centers. I don't think he makes sense at all.

He was such a good player too. No idea what happened to him.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

Well, just posted the Ceulemans value on the trade board. Right now, I'm hearing a second round pick for him. I heard a fifth on the Saad thread. Hopefully there will be more thoughts; I really liked Ceulemans and Carson Lambos in their draft years, and I think picking Ceulemans as a reclamation project for a pick or left-handed defense/wing prospect makes sense, considering our precarious right-handed defense depth.

I'm not sure CBJ would let him go for a price I'd be comfortable with due to his draft pedigree, but it would make sense to trade if it was something around someone like Alexandrov to make it a project for project trade.

Edit: Oh crap, looks like he’s playing LW for Calgary now. I haven’t watched him much since his Panther days. Maybe this isn’t such a good idea after all lol.

FWIW, he hasn't played center since before even his junior days, but somehow has always had a C position tag.

 

[Reality Czech]

I think you have a blind spot for Schenn.

Nah, I don't think so. Some people have just decided they don't like him for whatever reason, and once you're in that category it's hard to get out of it. I'm not saying Schenn is a great defensive player, but it's not like he's horrible either. He's more of a complete player than he was earlier in his career at least. People rely too much on some advanced stats to make broad statements about a player's ability but those stats can often be misleading.

Honestly I don't get why people are so negative about him. Some people act like he's a detriment to the team when that's not the case with some people going as far as to say he was a bad choice for captain because his play on the ice wasn't good enough for them. I see him as a guy who's always worked hard, is respected by his peers, has played a variety of roles and positions and wears the Blue Note proudly.

 

[Mike Liut]

I'm not sure CBJ would let him go for a price I'd be comfortable with due to his draft pedigree, but it would make sense to trade if it was something around someone like Alexandrov to make it a project for project trade.


FWIW, he hasn't played center since before even his junior days, but somehow has always had a C position tag.

Damn, I always thought he played center in Florida. My bad.

 

[Renard]

Schwartz made the jump straight into the NHL. He played a handful of NHL games in 2011/12 immediately following the end of his college year. His AHL time in 2012/13 was just because the NHL locked the players out and he was eligible to play in the AHL instead of sitting and doing nothing.

I'm not sold that Parayko's AHL time was based on perceived lack of readiness. Due to his age, his ELC was only 2 years. When he left school following his 3rd season, we sent him to the AHL on an amateur tryout deal rather than burning a year of his ELC to play him for 10-15 NHL games. I think that was a business move more than it was an assessment that he wasn't capable of jumping from the NCAA to the NHL. We were also a top 5 team in the NHL and were probably less eager to insert a rookie into the lineup than we will be this year.

Edit: I do believe that we will see a trade (or more) in the next 12 months to open up spots for incoming prospects. Schenn, Saad, Leddy, Faulk, and Krug all see their full NTCs become limited NTCs next summer. Army structured that group of guys to become easier to move in the summer of 2025 and nothing about the last 2 years tells me that he is more married to those guys than when he signed them. I will be very surprised if Saad is here in 12 months. I will also be surprised if both of M Joseph and Texier are here next year.

 

[Renard]

I very much disagree that the gap between Brady and Kyrou can be accurately described using words like 'dominant' for one with 'one-dimensional' for the other. Brady might be physically dominant (I'd push back on that a bit) but I certainly would not describe his complete NHL game or him as a player overall as dominant. I think he is just as one dimensional as Kyrou. It is a completely different dimension, but his game is pretty far from complete.

Kyrou's speed is no less dominant than Tkachuk's physicality. It impacts the game in very different ways and both have large holes in the elements of the game that isn't their strengths. I don't think that Tkachuk's physicality positively impacts the game by a margin greater than Kyrou's speed. He pulls himself out of position chasing hits all the time. He's in position to intercept/interrupt passes far less than Kyrou.



I get that Brady wears the C, but has he created a good culture in Ottawa with his leadership? Is it a sign of good leadership to get five 10 minute misconduct penalties a season? I get that a lack of team success isn't all on the leadership, but Tkachuk hasn't led the Sens to anything. That team has had major issues defending for years and he has continued to be a defensive liability. I don't think fans are particularly well suited to evaluate leadership and I think 'culture' is usually spin when discussing pro sports (good and bad). But there is a lot of talent in Ottawa's lineup and I think a lot of people would say that they have underachieved for the last few years.

All thing being equal, I'd take Brady over Kyrou. But I don't think the gap between them is all that wide and I wouldn't trade Kyrou for Brady 1 for 1 given their current contracts.

One of my favorite stats about Brian Sutter is that he got 26 fighting majors in the 1980-1981 season, but no misconducts. When the refs told Brian to get the box, he
went.