2024/2025 Around the League

[drhiii]

I am heartbroken..

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Don’t disagree at all.

And yeah… I like my beer, but we should tax the shit out of it. All sin stuff should be taxed heavily. Enjoy it, but pay for what the societal impact is. Also… the sooner we get to cars driving themselves, the better. Shit will still happen, but not at the same rate we have now.

Oh beyond all doubt, there will always be breakdowns and failures in every system. It's just that for me, I can't help but see the ridiculousness behind the fact that more people are killed by drunk drivers in America than mass shooters but yet the outrage appears to be only about guns.

I loved beer (probably more than I should have) prior to my cancer diagnosis and I agree, tax the shit out of it. Same now that I dabble with marijuana for dealing with nauseousness from chemo. I don't smoke it to get high (don't get me wrong, I don't object to that being a side effect when I take a larger hit) but I still have no problems with the taxes it is getting.

 

[drhiii]

Yeah I honestly started crying this morning thinking about the family. Today was supposed to be his Sisters most special day arguably for her entire life. His wife is left with two young children to raise on her own now. Parents having to bury two of their children at the same time now.

Just an absolutely devastating, crushing tragedy for them to experience. Hug your loved ones.

Said elsewhere... but I am absolutely heartbroken...

 

[SirLoinOfCloth]

True. But he didn't. His keys got wet, but they worked. His phone didn't.

A car should not be a device accessible behind a smartphone. And practically, it can't be.

I think that with a mindset shift it possibly could work, but i don't disagree that its practically very difficult. The problem with simply policing the issue, is that it objectively isn't working. If anything there are more distracted drivers nowadays. Thousands are dying on the roads because people can't put their phone down for 5 minutes. It's hard to police because it could require cameras on the inside of the car.

Maybe the other option which i think actually exists, is that the cars can detect distracted drivers. Maybe there's more that can be done with that technology.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Ok, no internet. How about a phone in any capacity?

I drove a car today at my work. Didn't have a phone on me. Crazy thought for you? One of my co-workers dropped though the ice when he went ice-fishing this winter. Lucky for him, he was able to get out of the water, walk to his car and get it started, warm up and go home. He would've f***ing died with your idea, with his phone dead, clothes wet, -15 degrees celcius.

A car is not something that should require a phone to be able to operate. I don't even know how you would integrate your idea to my friends '84 Corolla, but good luck.

The majority of us don't hold up a phone while driving. The solution is to police those who do.

Have you ever driven a car without a key?

I'm sure you would adapt to bringing your phone with you eventually. I get what you are saying about no one should put conditions on how you operate your private property, but you have to remember that private property is going to be running on public roads and at that point 'Merica! no longer works as an answer for me. When the private ownership is using public means (roads), the public gets a larger say in how these things work. If cell phones or BAC devices are the future so be it.

If 19th-20th century thinking about 21st century problems was beneficial, we wouldn't be here in the first place.

 

[LOFIN]

Have you ever driven a car without a key?

I'm sure you would adapt to bringing your phone with your eventually.

In the year of 2060, when 95% of the cars in the western world would becapable of handling bluetooth or wifi (because now it's not that %), we probably won't even have phones but some integrated chips in our wrists or whatever. So yeah.

 

[henchman21]

I have a car that uses a phone as a key, and it is about the greatest convenience there is. I never carry around a key chain anymore. I barely carry a wallet. I hate when I have to carry keys for my old shit.

 

[LOFIN]

I have a car that uses a phone as a key, and it is about the greatest convenience there is. I never carry around a key chain anymore. I barely carry a wallet. I hate when I have to carry keys for my old shit.

And if you want/can do that, that's great. How many people carry cash anymore these days? Pretty much nobody here in Finland anymore, when contactless payment is a thing.

My point has been, can or should you be able to force such a thing on everybody.

 

[henchman21]

And if you want/can do that, that's great. How many people carry cash anymore these days? Pretty much nobody here in Finland anymore, when contactless payment is a thing.

My point has been, can or should you be able to force such a thing on everybody.

The market will eventually force it. Gov’ts who are elected won’t ever be able to.

 

[LOFIN]

The market will eventually force it. Gov’ts who are elected won’t ever be able to.

Yeah, the thing is that with cars it's much slower than with most technology. How many people still use phones from the 2000s? Watch TV's (as in the actual device) from the 90s?

I do see plenty of cars from the 90s everyday though.

 

[SirLoinOfCloth]

Yeah, the thing is that with cars it's much slower than with most technology. How many people still use phones from the 2000s? Watch TV's (as in the actual device) from the 90s?

I do see plenty of cars from the 90s everyday though.

Agreed, and whatever (if anything) happens will take likely decades to get to 90% coverage. Kind of like seatbelts were mandated in all new cars, it took decades for old cars to finally get phased out. And many actively protested it. I think that's likely the only path forward, regulations on new vehicles and let time phase out the old.

The car industry needs to take a look at the airline industry for how they conduct themselves and hold themselves accountable (Boeing have seriously f***ed up in this regard, unfortunately). But a single airline crash is too many, there are strict regulations, protocols, etc that came about after a series of terrible accidents and the industry and customers saying enough was enough. Now its the safest form of travel and all the airlines and manufacturers buy in to the greater good (Boeing excepted, asshats).

Big strides have been made to make cars safer, but there's more work to be done.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

And if you want/can do that, that's great. How many people carry cash anymore these days? Pretty much nobody here in Finland anymore, when contactless payment is a thing.

My point has been, can or should you be able to force such a thing on everybody.

Nobody would force you to buy a new car? There are multitudes of other means of transportation available, even in America where I've been assured many times that we do public transportation for shit.

 

[Mighty Makar]

 

[henchman21]

Agreed, and whatever (if anything) happens will take likely decades to get to 90% coverage. Kind of like seatbelts were mandated in all new cars, it took decades for old cars to finally get phased out. And many actively protested it. I think that's likely the only path forward, regulations on new vehicles and let time phase out the old.

The car industry needs to take a look at the airline industry for how they conduct themselves and hold themselves accountable (Boeing have seriously f***ed up in this regard, unfortunately). But a single airline crash is too many, there are strict regulations, protocols, etc that came about after a series of terrible accidents and the industry and customers saying enough was enough. Now its the safest form of travel and all the airlines and manufacturers buy in to the greater good (Boeing excepted, asshats).

Big strides have been made to make cars safer, but there's more work to be done.

I still have a car without shoulder belts!

The airline stat is misleading. If there were anywhere near approaching the same numbers of vehicles moving around, we’d see a lot more issues. The limited amount and heavy regulations around air space is what keeps it safe. If it was like roads where most people could use it, it would be a real shitshow.

 

[SuperJoe]

So sad for all the people affected by this tragedy. My thoughts and prayers are with them, life will never be the same.

 

[drhiii]

Have you ever driven a car without a key?

I'm sure you would adapt to bringing your phone with your eventually. I get what you are saying about no one should put conditions on how you operate your private property, but you have to remember that private property is going to be running on public roads and at that point 'Merica! no longer works as an answer for me. When the private ownership is using public means (roads), the public gets a larger say in how these things work. If cell phones or BAC devices are the future so be it.

If 19th-20th century thinking about 21st century problems was beneficial, we wouldn't be here in the first place.

Well said... private property on public vias... I think this too, often.

 

[henchman21]

Nobody would force you to buy a car? There are multitudes of other means of transportation available, even in America where I've been assured many times that we do public transportation for shit.

Cars will always be a necessity in rural areas and the US and Canada are filled with them. Where I’m at today… I’m legitimately 2 hours from any public transportation.

 

[LOFIN]

Nobody would force you to buy a car? There are multitudes of other means of transportation available, even in America where I'm told we do public transportation for shit.

If someone was to take away my car from me today, I could deal with that. For me, a car is a luxury. Would probably benefit me in the long run. Winters would suck, but I would be healthier having to cycle to work and would save a lot of money.

Can't say that for all my co-workers though.

I'm not trying to come at this from pro-car, "don't try to mess with my rights to drive my motor!" kinda way. More like, are you going to force like half of car owning folks to give up on their cars because their cars are not set up for technology like this.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Cars will always be a necessity in rural areas and the US and Canada are filled with them. Where I’m at today… I’m legitimately 2 hours from any public transportation.

Me too, I was being facetious. The point remains, if you want a car you're agreeing to the conditions placed on it. I don't want my cellphone much less my car to have access to GPS, track my every movement and sell it to the highest bidder, yet here we are.

The same would apply here with a technological solution such as a BAC interlock. The only problem I see with one comes when a situation arises in which you could forgive a drunk person for driving. I'm trying to think of one, but I'm kind of having trouble. Even in a true life and death scenario they are putting more people at risk of death by driving so it's really hard for me to figure out any reasonable opposition, other than I'm okay at 0.09 and 0.08 is too low. Which I'm not inclined to believe is true even if your name was Andre the Giant.

 

[DanishAvsfan]

Have no idea how long ago this was but damn, I hope your sister and her friend's family were able to recover as well as possible.

I also hope you do not mind me using your post a bit as a means a to push a couple of points...

1. There was a family yesterday that was in more pain than many have never felt and those of us that have wish like hell we hadn't. Yet, while this was unfolding, people were actually cyberstalking his childhood home online and drawing maps to the accident site and posting this shit online everywhere. This shit had to be EXTREMELY traumatic to the Gaudreau family. It struck me as completely cold and completely unnecessary considering no statement had been made yet regarding the identities. Yes, they were right, but it's still just...I mean, is this how we want society to work? Folks online digging into everything about a family going through a f***ing a tragedy instead of just giving them some space to breath?

2. This is the bigger point. This shit happens on average every 39 minutes in the United States alone. 1 death from drunken driving every 39 minutes. 37 people every single f***ing day. Yet the outrage, only appears to happen when a celebrity is involved. Seriously, drunk drivers kill more than mass shooters. MADD was big deal in the 80s, what's happened since then?

I don’t mind at all. Alcohol is a national sport in Denmark. For kids age 15-18 we still have the record, I think. Part of the culture. If you don’t drink growing up you are kind of ousted. It is very hard to resist the social pressure to drink. However, it is changing fortunately. The availability of decent non-alcoholic beers has changed things a lot. Still, I think per capita we problaby equal the US in people killed by drunk drivers even though we have a a lot of cycling lanes It does infuriate me. For me it is involuntary man slaughter.

 

[henchman21]

Me too, I was being facetious. The point remains, if you want a car you're agreeing to the conditions placed on it. I don't want my cellphone much less my car to have access to GPS, track my every movement and sell it to the highest bidder, yet here we are.

The same would apply here with a technological solution such as a BAC interlock. The only problem I see with one comes when a situation arises in which you could forgive a drunk person for driving. I'm trying to think of one, but I'm kind of having trouble. Even in a true life and death scenario they are putting more people at risk of death by driving so it's really hard for me to figure out any reasonable opposition, other than I'm okay at 0.09 and 0.08 is too low. Which I'm not inclined to believe is true even if your name was Andre the Giant.

On your second point… same can be said for speeding. No need for cars to go beyond the speed limit ever and the technology is there to read signs and limit. We know how bad reckless driving is too. There are a ton of things that have valid arguments for these sorts of restrictions. Drinking and driving has to be near the top of the list. But it isn’t realistic that society will accept those restrictions. At least not in democratic societies where people have a say.

 

[henchman21]

I don’t mind at all. Alcohol is a national sport in Denmark. For kids age 15-18 we still have the record, I think. Part of the culture. If you don’t drink growing up you are kind of ousted. It is very hard to resist the social pressure to drink. However, it is changing fortunately. The availability of decent non-alcoholic beers has changed things a lot. Still, I think per capita we problaby equal the US in people killed by drunk drivers even though we have a a lot of cycling lanes It does infuriate me. For me it is involuntary man slaughter.

That’s basically what this guy is being charged with. I was texting a lawyer buddy of mine and while he’s in NYC and not crimal anymore… he thought it would be two charges served in succession and no chance of parole prior to 6 years. Probably not enough by American standards, but echos involuntary manslaughter sentences around the states. We only get really serious when you get to murder here. Then all bets are off, especially if you’re not white.

 

[DanishAvsfan]

That’s basically what this guy is being charged with. I was texting a lawyer buddy of mine and while he’s in NYC and not crimal anymore… he thought it would be two charges served in succession and no chance of parole prior to 6 years. Probably not enough by American standards, but echos involuntary manslaughter sentences around the states. We only get really serious when you get to murder here. Then all bets are off, especially if you’re not white.

Ok, in DK it is 3-8 years now. Used to be max. 3, when Fransesca, my sister’s friend, was killled.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I don’t mind at all. Alcohol is a national sport in Denmark. For kids age 15-18 we still have the record, I think. Part of the culture. If you don’t drink growing up you are kind of ousted. It is very hard to resist the social pressure to drink. However, it is changing fortunately. The availability of decent non-alcoholic beers has changed things a lot. Still, I think per capita we problaby equal the US in people killed by drunk drivers even though we have a a lot of cycling lanes It does infuriate me. For me it is involuntary man slaughter.

I'm really glad, because it turns out that by using this as a springboard I've actually had a really good conversation with many people tonight. If these types of days and tragedies with their accompanying dialogue helps stop one dude or dudette from doing the ultimate stupid act and driving drunk it's all worth it.

And to be clear, I am not a saint nor pretend to be one. Nor do I hold anyone's past against them. I just hope that these discussions as few and far between as they occur on a big scale like this can reach or help even just a few people. It's not a crime to drink or even to be a drunk/alcoholic. It's a crime to drive while doing so, but outside of that anyone dealing with this issue...I've got all time time, respect, patience and hope for recovery. Just don't hurt anyone else while trying to figure out your own shit.

On your second point… same can be said for speeding. No need for cars to go beyond the speed limit ever and the technology is there to read signs and limit. We know how bad reckless driving is too. There are a ton of things that have valid arguments for these sorts of restrictions. Drinking and driving has to be near the top of the list. But it isn’t realistic that society will accept those restrictions. At least not in democratic societies where people have a say.

Definitely, which is why I try not devolve purely into politics much. Don't get me wrong, I have very strong feelings and opinions about how things should be done (like everyone), but obviously nobody gets a majority backing in these kind of discussions, especially one so short lived as this will surely turn out to be. Heck, I wouldn't even want the majority of my own ideas actually implemented; I just tend to use them as a way to try and spark further dialogue and conversation to keep momentum moving rather than to allow things to completely die away after the initial shock and awe.

That’s basically what this guy is being charged with. I was texting a lawyer buddy of mine and while he’s in NYC and not crimal anymore… he thought it would be two charges served in succession and no chance of parole prior to 6 years. Probably not enough by American standards, but echos involuntary manslaughter sentences around the states. We only get really serious when you get to murder here. Then all bets are off, especially if you’re not white.

I think manslaughter is probably the most adequate charge. I personally could find it hard to say a drunk driver was guilty of pre-meditation (murder) but I can certainly understand people who feel that way. I think manslaughter is probably okay considering DUI by itself isn't even a felony charge in the US. My nephew was killed while working on his car on the side of the road. Farmer out in Montana had a hay bail loaded on the front end of his truck and couldn't see his car on the shoulder of the road and rear-ended him while he was working under the hood. The judge was pissed the DA didn't bring a murder charge, but the DA said he couldn't even get manslaughter through grand jury and reckless driving was the best he could do.

The simple fact is the world doesn't have much justice and bad things happen all the time, it just doesn't make the news if a celebrity isn't involved.

 

[Balthazar]

View attachment 904180

Donations are good and all but is it out of the line to believe that Johnny's family should take care of Matt's family financially?