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WJC: 2023 Team USA Roster Talk

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TheBeastCoast said:
I am sure you already know this but the Womens world championship runs the tournament format you mentioned. Two groups of 5 with the top 5 in one group bottom 5 in the other play within your group. All 5 in Group A make it to the quarters and 1-3 in Group B make it as the 6-8 seeds. So in a world where Russia hasn't been banished you would be looking at a Group A of Canada-USA-Sweden-Finland-Russia. Would be an absolute meat grinder to say the least but lots of great hockey as well. I think it is atleast worthy a discussion even if I don't dislike the current format.
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Yeah, exactly. It'd be a bold change for sure and while it would have some downsides, I think the upsides could be fascinating. You'd create more matchups between the top teams. The lowest tier teams would still compete against better competition while likely playing more consistently competitive games because they're playing team closer to their quality. A team like Austria would still struggle but IMO they'd gain more from playing like Germany, Switzerland, Slovakia, etc. rather than 1-2 of that tier plus a Canada, Sweden, etc. And the gamesmanship of of which group you're in tournament to tournament would be fascinating. Right now the group you end up in the following tournament isn't ever a topic, but if let's say Team USA struggles and possibly is at risk of falling out of Group A, that'd be added drama we don't have right now.
 
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William H Bonney said:
Yeah, exactly. It'd be a bold change for sure and while it would have some downsides, I think the upsides could be fascinating. You'd create more matchups between the top teams. The lowest tier teams would still compete against better competition while likely playing more consistently competitive games because they're playing team closer to their quality. A team like Austria would still struggle but IMO they'd gain more from playing like Germany, Switzerland, Slovakia, etc. rather than 1-2 of that tier plus a Canada, Sweden, etc. And the gamesmanship of of which group you're in tournament to tournament would be fascinating. Right now the group you end up in the following tournament isn't ever a topic, but if let's say Team USA struggles and possibly is at risk of falling out of Group A, that'd be added drama we don't have right now.
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I don't think that would beneficial for Switzerland, Slovakia or Germany.
 
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Guttersniped said:
The blow outs happen every year, there isn’t a year that it doesn’t happen. I don’t see them as bad though.

The weakest teams that fought to get promoted have already beaten lower tier groups and they can do it again if/when they get demoted.

There are countries that have made progress, Germany and Latvia are having their best success ever. This Czech team is formidable.

There isn’t parity but that isn’t some terrible problem to be solved and isolating the top teams from the rest isn’t even a good solution.

This tournament isn’t just for tv viewers, it isn’t about making a tough gauntlet with the top teams only playing each other.
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The blowouts aren't the point.

Yes, the weakest teams could get promoted again if they're demoted, but again that's not the point. The point is to encourage those teams to be able to play in more competitive games when they take the step up. IMO it's more useful for those programs to play games against opponents a tier above them but closer to their abilities. Austria losing say 5-1 every game is better for their development than getting plastered.

Germany has done well since being promoted. Latvia is too small of a sample size. Czechs are formidable but they'd be (a) capable of making the top group; (b) advancing in the QFs even if they're not in the top group.

I didn't recommend a format that only has the top teams playing each other. I recommended a different round robin format. The other group would have great hockey, too, and those teams would move on to the knockout rounds, too. And unlike the women's tournament, teams from that group would advance in the knockout rounds with regularity.

SK94 said:
I don't think that would beneficial for Switzerland, Slovakia or Germany.
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Maybe. Maybe not. But they'd still be playing competitive games and they'd still be advancing to the QFs. And they'd have the added goal of advancing into the higher group. The teams in the top group wouldn't be that group in perpetuity - they'd have to earn the results to stay there.
 
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Mbereko is so small that with him looking around the screen on the wrong side (away from the puck on the shooter's stick), he gave Dvorsky half of the net to shoot it into. That was way too easy.

I think it's time to mix up the lines and pairings a bit.
 
First line have to be a much better. 5 vs 5 is not that great, then one penalty and it's a tie game. Slovakia was completely clueless in the first.
 
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Considering how Slovaks hit the wall in the first it is shocking that they actually lead by two. Too many guys looks more like a U18 player than U20. Brindley should be higher in the lineup.
 
William H Bonney said:
Idiotic play by Connors.

It's quite impressive how often we have one of the worst coached teams in the tournament.
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100%. This is also one of the biggest reasons why we are stuck in this cycle. One good year and then couple below average tournaments. USA Hockey should be able to be there every single year like Canada. Boys throwed this game away nicely in the second. Horrible call tho...
 
It's brutal how soft this team is. I seriously start to doubt that we need to move away from NCAA coaches.
 
Pretty much all the concerns you had about the team have played out so far. No chemistry, too much reliance on 18 year olds for scoring, bad goaltending.

I won't be surprised if the coaches don't completely shake things up to start the 3rd like they should as it's a USAH coaching special to change nothing at the WJC even when things aren't going well. But Augustine should go in the net. The lines/pairings should be jumbled. Peart should be the #7. Brindley needs to be up the lineup. Gauthier at center.

SK94 said:
It's brutal how soft this team is. I seriously start to doubt that we need to move away from NCAA coaches.
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To professional like when we went with Ron Wilson?

I'm all for going away from NCAA coaches (at least occasionally) but we don't have a ton of options. I'd like us to at least go with a younger staff with the NCAA guys like David Carle. No more NCAA dinosaurs.
 
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William H Bonney said:
Pretty much all the concerns you had about the team have played out so far. No chemistry, too much reliance on 18 year olds for scoring, bad goaltending.

I won't be surprised if the coaches don't completely shake things up to start the 3rd like they should as it's a USAH coaching special to change nothing at the WJC even when things aren't going well. But Augustine should go in the net. The lines/pairings should be jumbled. Peart should be the #7. Brindley needs to be up the lineup. Gauthier at center.



To professional like when we went with Ron Wilson?

I'm all for going away from NCAA coaches (at least occasionally) but we don't have a ton of options. I'd like us to at least go with a younger staff with the NCAA guys like David Carle. No more NCAA dinosaurs.
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Sometimes the necessary changes (not to mention team selections) are so clear that I genuinely believe certain HF posters would deliver superior coaching.
 
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NewHampshire said:
Tipped or not - that goal went in because he is small and scrambally. As has been the case much of tonight. At least Muszelik is big...
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Oh yeah, it wasn't a good goal. But it was at least for him a bad break. To your point on him being scrambly is he had overslid on that play. If he's square there, that deflection hits him in the chest. The other goals were all of the soft variety. He was bound to get a game. I said they'd rotate until one of them took / lost the net. Mbereko has lost the net and shouldn't even be in there for the 3rd.
 
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Dominance said:
Sometimes the necessary changes (not to mention team selections) are so clear that I genuinely believe certain HF posters would deliver superior coaching.
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Yeah. I mean I'm sure we'd f*** it up, too, but I think generally we'd be less stubborn, which is what I care about most. We'll never agree with all the selections, the lines, etc. But when things aren't going well, it must be a forcing function for change. The tournament is too short to hope things will turn around on their own. For USAH, our coaches too often marry themselves to a style, lineup, whatever and stick with it no matter what to the detriment of the team. Like trying to prove their original estimation was correct often seems more important than trying to do everything to win.
 
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William H Bonney said:
Yeah. I mean I'm sure we'd f*** it up, too, but I think generally we'd be less stubborn, which is what I care about most. We'll never agree with all the selections, the lines, etc. But when things aren't going well, it must be a forcing function for change. The tournament is too short to hope things will turn around on their own. For USAH, our coaches too often marry themselves to a style, lineup, whatever and stick with it no matter what to the detriment of the team. Like trying to prove their original estimation was correct often seems more important than trying to do everything to win.
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I was genuinely shocked to see Canada’s coach changed our lines after Monday’s debacle.

Anyways, this will be an interesting third period. Successful or not, if Team USA puts together a good comeback push it could be something they rally around going forward.
 
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William H Bonney said:
Oh yeah, it wasn't a good goal. But it was at least for him a bad break. To your point on him being scrambly is he had overslid on that play. If he's square there, that deflection hits him in the chest. The other goals were all of the soft variety. He was bound to get a game. I said they'd rotate until one of them took / lost the net. Mbereko has lost the net and shouldn't even be in there for the 3rd.
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Augustine has to be the guy the rest of the way. I’m not sure who is even dressed tonight as the second guy but I agree - either get TA back up to speed or give AO a bone...
 
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Dominance said:
I was genuinely shocked to see Canada’s coach changed our lines after Monday’s debacle.

Anyways, this will be an interesting third period. Successful or not, if Team USA puts together a good comeback push it could be something they rally around going forward.
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Sometimes that added pressure of being on Canada in a hockey tournament can force a coach to do something they might not want to do. Probably not often enough though as I've seen enough Canadian coaches ride their original lineup into an unsuccessful tournament.
 
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