Player Discussion Leo Carlsson

[HanSolo]

Why is anyone offended by IF he comes in as a mopey beanpole? Put down your pitchforks.

I mean. I don't think it's a question of offense as much as it's just reductive and an oversimplification of the problem.

I've seen it argued multiple times that other kids come into the league and don't throw their head back in frustration like him. And maybe it's not common but he was still a teenager not too long ago.

Yeah Leo has to find coping mechanisms and the strength to persevere on his own, but his team and the mentors he's surrounded with could help him through his current funk. His visible frustration clearly comes from expecting more from himself and still struggling. Maybe it'll take a sports psychologist to help him through that. But his reactions should at least be understandable.

It seems he really wants to be the star that matches his second overall billing, but things aren't going well. Part of that might be the way he's being instructed to play, part of that might be what he's taught or not being taught in practice, part of that might be gripping the stick too hard and second guessing every play. No one on this board can really know for sure what combination of those factors are at play here.

But like @AngelDuck said, he's still learning how to play at the highest level of the sport. For some kids it comes naturally. For others, there's a longer adaptation period. What I am left questioning is if the coaches are doing enough to foster his strengths and work on his weaknesses. From what I've read from Cronin's comments on what they're teaching him, I'm not so sure that they are.

 

[JAHV]

I think the visible frustration will ebb as he matures. He clearly cares, which I think is better than the alternative. He wants to be great and is irritated every time he's not. Hopefully he learns to channel that irritation into something productive. Some guys get more focused, some guys get more physical, some guys find another level of motivation.

I think Carlsson can get there, but he needs to put in the offseason work on his strength and conditioning.

 

[Reveille1984]

Maybe mopey beanpole was harsh, okay lol. I don't really care if he's visibly frustrated or not, I'll just say next year will be big for him in terms of of development and expectations.

Hopefully the coaching and training/development staff can get the best out of him, we'll see. He is a big part of our future obviously and everyone wants things to pan out for him. I guess fingers crossed that he has a third year level up similar to Barkov.

 

[Dr Johnny Fever]

And that’s a good thing. The international hockey braintrust of team Sweden, says….. that’s our future 1C in international play. (At least the plan is for that). Get him much needed experience playing team hockey on an elite level. It’s a sign of faith (whether be desperation or true belief) that he is the future of that team.

Most of Leo’s problems can be attributed to either confidence or strength. Always tougher to gain confidence first, but he has the frame that (if)when it clicks it all should click.

He missed the team goal this year for adding muscle (from what I’ve heard here), I assume there will be a talk about that during the exit interview.

It doesn't bother me that he was there but he played exactly one game and was hardly noticeable. It was a short tournament. Every game was a must win. That was the focus of every meeting and every practice. It wasn't a let's develop Leo for the Olympics training camp. He could have stayed home (I'm not saying he should have) and it would have had the exact same impact on his career.

 

[JAHV]

It doesn't bother me that he was there but he played exactly one game and was hardly noticeable. It was a short tournament. Every game was a must win. That was the focus of every meeting and every practice. It wasn't a let's develop Leo for the Olympics training camp. He could have stayed home (I'm not saying he should have) and it would have had the exact same impact on his career.

With the caveat that this is complete speculation, I think this could be really good for him. Even getting selected for the team has to be a boost for his confidence, and getting to play a game (even under adverse circumstances) should boost it even further. And it can't hurt to be around great players for a week, soaking in the intangible stuff that makes them elite. Just by being there helps him develop for high level international hockey, and hopefully that bleeds into his training with the Ducks.

He was the only one from the Ducks selected to this tournament. By definition, he's not getting exposed to peers who are at or above his level. That exposure could help him significantly.

 

[robbieboy3686]

Hey, so, carlsson maybe gets to see how he’s a long way off from being strong enough physically and mentally and maybe puts in some real work this off season.

 

[KelVarnsen]

Maybe mopey beanpole was harsh, okay lol. I don't really care if he's visibly frustrated or not, I'll just say next year will be big for him in terms of of development and expectations.

Hopefully the coaching and training/development staff can get the best out of him, we'll see. He is a big part of our future obviously and everyone wants things to pan out for him. I guess fingers crossed that he has a third year level up similar to Barkov.

And right there is the rub. I don't have the faith in the development and coaching staff to help develop and push him to the highest level. Anxiously waiting to eat crow on the ability of the organization's development program under PV and Cro.

 

[ZegrassyKnoll]

Really don't like to see us going down the Gibson body language road with Leo. He gets annoyed when he doesn't score, but it's not like he's f***ing Kovalev out there. No shortage of effort. And his attitude has been reported as fantastic in every outlet.

"Mopey beanpole"? Get out of here with that crap.

A REAL franchise C would cheer ecstatically after missing a shot

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Not strictly true. San Jose was doing it it with Will Smith for a while but I don't think for as long as Anaheim did it with Leo.

Differences between Smith and Carlsson.

D+1 league
Will Smith spent his D+1 season in the NCAA, where they mostly play on the weekends and spend the other days working out, resting, and going to school.
Leo spent his D+1 in the NHL, with an irregular schedule for working out and resting. And Leo was forced to play through injuries.

Team quality
Smith went to an esteemed NCAA program in Boston College. That 2023-24 season, BC had a massive influx of top end talent in the trio of Leonard-Smith-Perreault. BC won the Hockey East tourney and lost in the Frozen Four championship game.

Leo went to a rebuild team that lacked support at the highest level of play as an actual center for the season.

First Pro Year Position
Smith is currently slotted at 2RW, according to Daily Faceoff, but has played 2C this season.
Leo was thrusted into the 1C position, but he has not played as a full time centerman in his SHL pro career (2 years).

If Leo stayed at the SHL level, then he stays with the team, Orebro, that developed him into the #2 pick in 2024. Orebro was a playoff team in Leo's draft year, meaning it has talented personnel to be around Leo the following season. In the playoffs, Leo was their 2nd best scorer with 9 pts (1g, 8a) in only 13 games. They were already planning on making Leo the 1C and high-end winger prospect Lekkerimaki was heading to Orebro. At the very least, Carlsson gets to develop his offense as a 1C with Orebro in the SHL.

I believe Leo would have been best served sticking with Orebro in his D+1 season and then coming over to NA. But Verbeek wanted to rush his prospects to the NHL just so he can body-build them to death as first year pros to circumvent the natural progression of muscle growth, i.e., get prime man strength before the age of 21. Which is what happened to both Carlsson and Luneau. We finished in the bottom-3 with Leo last year. Did we really need Leo to come over to Anaheim in his D+1 season?

Under Cronin, the org is only developing how to defend as team and hope it gets lucky on its quick counter. We did see Carlsson show off his defensive side at the 4 Nations, but that's it.

Here's a quote from Silverberg about playing mostly as a defensive forward and could not mentally reset into an offensive mode for the World Championships:

But how could it turn out like it did in the World Cup?​

​

– I know damn well, actually. I think I was a little mentally broken. We had missed the playoffs several years in a row. I had had a defensive role in Anaheim, where I just played simply: one touch, edge out – not offensive. I couldn’t switch to the WC. I wanted to contribute more offensively, but had a hard time getting into situations and the puck wasn’t bouncing my way.​

Leo has been playing two years in a losing program as a defensive forward first. Where and when is this offense going to be developed?

 

[JonathnTaylorTavares]

It would be nice to see cellys from the rookies after icings, just to remind us they are grateful to be there

 

[duckpuck]

I agree with this. And conditioning has been a problem too in addition to muscle.

He seems tired to me at times and it affects his battle level. It’s not that he’s not trying, it’s that other guys are in better shape than he is and are able to go max capacity there entire shift and the entire game. Whereas Leo can only do it in 15 second spurts rigjt now

Bottom line is the next 2 offseasons are really important for Leo’s training

He definitely looks tired to me. He is visibly and noticeably worn out at the end of shifts. And he is always one of the first ones to head to the bench for a change. You'll notice Zegras will push it if he things he can get a scoring chance (probably to a fault sometimes), but Leo rarely stays out if he has the option to get off the ice.

It's possible this is a strict instruction from the coaching staff, so it might not be him. But Leo seems like he loses energy much quicker than other guys, and certainly much quicker than a guy who you'd like to be your 1C. Hopefully that's something he can work on this offseason.

The lack of strength leads to the lack of conditioning and/or looking tired. It is all in the same bucket. He's been 19/20 competing against guys who are a lot older and more developed. To be expected.

Not everyone can put on muscle. Hopefully he can.

 

[stevo61]

The lack of strength leads to the lack of conditioning and/or looking tired. It is all in the same bucket. He's been 19/20 competing against guys who are a lot older and more developed. To be expected.

Not everyone can put on muscle. Hopefully he can.

Columbus fan invading. Kinda kept an eye on some of your guys as we've drafted so close together for a few years now so it's kind of just a curiosity/what if thing.

Everyone can put on muscle but for Anaheim's sake they need to work with him from the ground up. Monitor his workouts but as importantly as that is the diet. Kid has gotta eat, lots of guys labeled as hard gainers simply don't consume the food needed to grow. Gym is the stimulus, food is the fuel and sleep is the recovery/growth. I think its a matter of when and not if. It can happen fast too, Kent Johnson lost a lot of last year with a shoulder injury so he got to focus on the off ice stuff and is a new player this year, I'd expect the same from Leo when it clicks for him.

 

[ohcomeonref]

I mean. I don't think it's a question of offense as much as it's just reductive and an oversimplification of the problem.

I've seen it argued multiple times that other kids come into the league and don't throw their head back in frustration like him. And maybe it's not common but he was still a teenager not too long ago.

Yeah Leo has to find coping mechanisms and the strength to persevere on his own, but his team and the mentors he's surrounded with could help him through his current funk. His visible frustration clearly comes from expecting more from himself and still struggling. Maybe it'll take a sports psychologist to help him through that. But his reactions should at least be understandable.

It seems he really wants to be the star that matches his second overall billing, but things aren't going well. Part of that might be the way he's being instructed to play, part of that might be what he's taught or not being taught in practice, part of that might be gripping the stick too hard and second guessing every play. No one on this board can really know for sure what combination of those factors are at play here.

But like @AngelDuck said, he's still learning how to play at the highest level of the sport. For some kids it comes naturally. For others, there's a longer adaptation period. What I am left questioning is if the coaches are doing enough to foster his strengths and work on his weaknesses. From what I've read from Cronin's comments on what they're teaching him, I'm not so sure that they are.

Dude has to live in the gym this summer and be mentally ready. I'm not going to say next year is make-or-break but we'd better see something more than what he's been doing.

 

[SoCal Dreaming]

Maybe he got tired of the load management from last year and didn't want to do the same on his off-season. He is still a kid. Could also be the early albeit small success gave him the mentality he could play as is without gaining more weight or muscle. It's all speculation on my part.

Hopefully, the struggles he is experiencing now leads to him being more dedicated on his fitness.

 

[Deuce22]

Holy overreaction, Batman! Comparing Leo's production to other highly drafted forwards is a lack of awareness. He's playing for Greg Cronin. None of young Ducks are producing offensively (LaCombe is 3 years older). I thought he was fine against USA, played hard and got right back up and competed after getting leveled. Sweden's coach seemed to trust him more than Cronin does.

 

[HanSolo]

Holy overreaction, Batman! Comparing Leo's production to other highly drafted forwards is a lack of awareness. He's playing for Greg Cronin. None of young Ducks are producing offensively (LaCombe is 3 years older). I thought he was fine against USA, played hard and got right back up and competed after getting leveled. Sweden's coach seemed to trust him more than Cronin does.

To play devil's advocate as a Leo believer, he does need to start strength training and packing on muscle mass. That helped Terry a ton after being on the brink of looking like he'd never put it together. With what Leo tries to do, he needs to be able to deflect contact better and be more confident navigating traffic. He'll also likely have less to second guess about his game if his conditioning improves. He's already fast. If he can sustain numerous high speed bursts over the course of a 15-20 minute set of shifts that should help him.

On the other hand I don't think this team is doing an adequate job in how they're telling/coaching him to play. The gist of what Cronin said is the focus is on defense but also on a style of play that is constantly attacking the net with the puck on his stick. Which explains why we see him trying to bull past multiple defenders so often. I've complained about this before but given Leo's current strength and conditioning, the team should really be emphasizing his ability to create space for himself and find lanes to shoot or make a play. Obviously with his speed we'd want him to be a good net rusher from time to time but this is a playmaker first and we're essentially trying to convert him into a pure power forward when he's not built for it. These repeated trial or attrition attempts to bull his way to the net are only going to increase his risk of injury while not optimizing the tools in his kit and just straight up ignoring them. And, from my view, it's only compounding his frustration as he often comes in with speed and nice moves but gets knocked off the puck either with a hit or stick check right at the moment he'd be able to make a play and it only compiles the number of times plays are dying on his stick, which adds to the frustration.

TLDR: Leo needs to get out of his own head and work out in the offseason, but the coaching staff is doing him exactly zero favors in the meantime.

 

[HanSolo]

Differences between Smith and Carlsson.

D+1 league
Will Smith spent his D+1 season in the NCAA, where they mostly play on the weekends and spend the other days working out, resting, and going to school.
Leo spent his D+1 in the NHL, with an irregular schedule for working out and resting. And Leo was forced to play through injuries.

Team quality
Smith went to an esteemed NCAA program in Boston College. That 2023-24 season, BC had a massive influx of top end talent in the trio of Leonard-Smith-Perreault. BC won the Hockey East tourney and lost in the Frozen Four championship game.

Leo went to a rebuild team that lacked support at the highest level of play as an actual center for the season.

First Pro Year Position
Smith is currently slotted at 2RW, according to Daily Faceoff, but has played 2C this season.
Leo was thrusted into the 1C position, but he has not played as a full time centerman in his SHL pro career (2 years).

If Leo stayed at the SHL level, then he stays with the team, Orebro, that developed him into the #2 pick in 2024. Orebro was a playoff team in Leo's draft year, meaning it has talented personnel to be around Leo the following season. In the playoffs, Leo was their 2nd best scorer with 9 pts (1g, 8a) in only 13 games. They were already planning on making Leo the 1C and high-end winger prospect Lekkerimaki was heading to Orebro. At the very least, Carlsson gets to develop his offense as a 1C with Orebro in the SHL.

I believe Leo would have been best served sticking with Orebro in his D+1 season and then coming over to NA. But Verbeek wanted to rush his prospects to the NHL just so he can body-build them to death as first year pros to circumvent the natural progression of muscle growth, i.e., get prime man strength before the age of 21. Which is what happened to both Carlsson and Luneau. We finished in the bottom-3 with Leo last year. Did we really need Leo to come over to Anaheim in his D+1 season?

Under Cronin, the org is only developing how to defend as team and hope it gets lucky on its quick counter. We did see Carlsson show off his defensive side at the 4 Nations, but that's it.

Here's a quote from Silverberg about playing mostly as a defensive forward and could not mentally reset into an offensive mode for the World Championships:

But how could it turn out like it did in the World Cup?​

​

– I know damn well, actually. I think I was a little mentally broken. We had missed the playoffs several years in a row. I had had a defensive role in Anaheim, where I just played simply: one touch, edge out – not offensive. I couldn’t switch to the WC. I wanted to contribute more offensively, but had a hard time getting into situations and the puck wasn’t bouncing my way.​

Leo has been playing two years in a losing program as a defensive forward first. Where and when is this offense going to be developed?

Hindsight is obviously 20/20 but I've come to agree that he should've spent a season in Sweden. Problem is I think his conditioning issues wouldn't have been any better. Would that have been a huge problem? I don't know. But the question of whether Leo is being developed properly as it stands now is a valid one.

 

[robbieboy3686]

Dude has to live in the gym this summer and be mentally ready. I'm not going to say next year is make-or-break but we'd better see something more than what he's been doing.

+10000

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Hindsight is obviously 20/20 but I've come to agree that he should've spent a season in Sweden. Problem is I think his conditioning issues wouldn't have been any better. Would that have been a huge problem? I don't know. But the question of whether Leo is being developed properly as it stands now is a valid one.

For most it's 20/20, but I was an advocate for keeping Leo with Orebro when we drafted him, especially since we're a rebuild team with a rookie NHL head coach and greenish GM. On top of that, our AHL situation sucked as well. My thought during the 2024 summer was: "Orebro got Leo to be picked #2 overall, so why not continue that great development?"

The SHL plays 56 games in the same amount of time the NHL plays 82 games. Which means the training is spread out more evenly. I trust their overall development, especially on the bigger sheet of ice. The bigger sheet of ice means more skating on the ice and improved endurance as a centerman, not a LW.

Anaheim's situation is trying to make boys into 'men of their physical prime' in half the time. We have only one youth who didn't go to the NCAA route that's built like man in their prime in Mac. Mac is the exception to the youth corps. (There is a case for Zellweger too, but due to his diminutive stature, you can't tell.) Terry didn't breakout until his D+7 season, but also spent three seasons in the NCAA. Carlsson is in his D+2 season. LaCombe is in his D+6, just turned 24 years old, and spent four seasons in the NCAA bulking up. LaCombe added more bulk over the summer, but nothing outrageous.

Notice, the emphasis is to get bigger and stronger physically. Where is the skill development? We see LaCombe showing off his skills, but why aren't Minty and Zell doing the same things often. Maybe it's because LaCombe developed so much in his four years in college that he just needed some time to adapt to the NHL speed and game play. It's very possible that no actual skill was developed under Cronin for LaCombe, but Cronin did mentally screw LaCombe up that he sought help over the summer.

 

[Reveille1984]

For most it's 20/20, but I was an advocate for keeping Leo with Orebro when we drafted him, especially since we're a rebuild team with a rookie NHL head coach and greenish GM. On top of that, our AHL situation sucked as well. My thought during the 2024 summer was: "Orebro got Leo to be picked #2 overall, so why not continue that great development?"

The SHL plays 56 games in the same amount of time the NHL plays 82 games. Which means the training is spread out more evenly. I trust their overall development, especially on the bigger sheet of ice. The bigger sheet of ice means more skating on the ice and improved endurance as a centerman, not a LW.

Anaheim's situation is trying to make boys into 'men of their physical prime' in half the time. We have only one youth who didn't go to the NCAA route that's built like man in their prime in Mac. Mac is the exception to the youth corps. (There is a case for Zellweger too, but due to his diminutive stature, you can't tell.) Terry didn't breakout until his D+7 season, but also spent three seasons in the NCAA. Carlsson is in his D+2 season. LaCombe is in his D+6, just turned 24 years old, and spent four seasons in the NCAA bulking up. LaCombe added more bulk over the summer, but nothing outrageous.

Notice, the emphasis is to get bigger and stronger physically. Where is the skill development? We see LaCombe showing off his skills, but why aren't Minty and Zell doing the same things often. Maybe it's because LaCombe developed so much in his four years in college that he just needed some time to adapt to the NHL speed and game play. It's very possible that no actual skill was developed under Cronin for LaCombe, but Cronin did mentally screw LaCombe up that he sought help over the summer.

Yeah, at least if he stayed with Orebro he could have kept building confidence, skill, and technique if anything.

It had to be jarring after building a bunch of momentum in the SHL, sprouting up to 6'3" and being drafted 2OA to then be vaulted straight to the NHL at 18, put into a load balancing program and playing every second or third game. He hasn't really played at any sort of elite level since then basically, on top of some injury issues for good measure.

My biggest fear is Cronin gets a third year in 25/26 due to Gibson/Dostal carrying the team to a .500 record, and we continue to pump out a factory of 3Cs in the place of previous high tier prospects (Leo/Zegras/Cutter/McTavish). I have zero faith in the current coaching staff to develop any player's offensive skillset.

 

[goosemooseduck]

Well, ESPN panel of 50 broadcasters, analysts, reporters and editors, rated him 61st out of 91 players at 4 Nations Face-Off. So, seems that many still see a lot of upside and future potential.