WJC: 2023 Team USA Roster Talk

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"We played too loose,” Pecknold said after the game. “We’re giving up too many odd-man rushes. We’re nonchalant about defending and we need to get better.

"We found a way to win on Monday and did not tonight. We got plenty of chances, I thought their goaltender was outstanding. He was the best player on the ice. We’ve got to defend better to be able to win games 2-1 and 3-2.”

Does he have any idea the type of team him and his staff selected? This isn't a win games 2-1 kind of team.



So we haven't practiced or played well according to the coach, but we haven't changed anything during that time, either. Why?
 
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I don't necessarily disagree with anything you said other than I'd say systems coaches are a huge red flag for tournaments, and you gloss over that astute point after making it. You simply don't have time to put in robust systems, you have to coach with agility and simplicity.

But the complaint is always about NCAA Coaches - why would the expectation be that any MJ, USHL or former NHL coach would necessarily be any less systems oriented? If that's a criteria to avoid than its about the individual coach, not where they coach - and certainly not simply because they're an NCAA Coach...

Furthermore, so many of the coaches that get offered up - like, David Carle - are pretty strong system coaches, who happen to coach former NTDP kids and the like. Simply having top talent on their college roster doesn't make them any different or any better...

It's ironic, because a guy who probably never even got a sniff was Dick Umile - who would have congregated his top talent and sent them out to run and gun with regularity. There are coaches like that in every league, including the NCAA, if that's what is preferred. Guy Gadowsky would let his talent wheel with anyone...

The huge trick is taking full season coaches and having them coach a two-week, six- seven- eight-game tournament. That's easier said than done no matter where they come from.

Canada uses MJ coaches and the fans often complain. Sweden had a full-time WJC coach and the fans complained. Its a crapshoot and likely a year-to-year one at that...
 
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But the complaint is always about NCAA Coaches - why would the expectation be that any MJ, USHL or former NHL coach would necessarily be any less systems oriented? If that's a criteria to avoid than its about the individual coach, not where they coach - and certainly not simply because they're an NCAA Coach...

Furthermore, so many of the coaches that get offered up - like, David Carle - are pretty strong system coaches, who happen to coach former NTDP kids and the like. Simply having top talent on their college roster doesn't make them any different or any better...

It's ironic, because a guy who probably never even got a sniff was Dick Umile - who would have congregated his top talent and sent them out to run and gun with regularity. There are coaches like that in every league, including the NCAA, if that's what is preferred. Guy Gadowsky would let his talent wheel with anyone...

The huge trick is taking full season coaches and having them coach a two-week, six- seven- eight-game tournament. That's easier said than done no matter where they come from.

Canada uses MJ coaches and the fans often complain. Sweden had a full-time WJC coach and the fans complained. Its a crapshoot and likely a year-to-year one at that...

I don't think the idea is that people assume any other potential coach wouldn't use system, or they just want run-and-gun, or that a non-NCAA coach wouldn't also potentially fail.

WJC teams have (what should be simplified) systems in place. Having a system isn't the issue; it should be expected. It's when coaches think that a system they've implemented over seasons with a core group of players can and should be lifted and shifted over to a group of different players who come together for only a couple of weeks. Or they refuse to deviate from the implemented system as if they have a whole season to work through the kinks (this is the biggest coaching issue we continually see IMO). You build and implement a system rooted around the format and players you have, and pivot when things aren't working. Pecknold can spend seasons teaching systems to his normal team, especially in a program that is usually one of the older programs who has more mature players that stay with the program for years. He can recruit specific players that would thrive in his system. That's all and well, and that can be very successful. It's a very poor approach for the WJC though, and that's what's disconcerting about all the reports on his WJC staff's approach so far. It's not that he's putting systems in place, it's that he's seemingly trying to put the exact Quinnipiac systems in place.

And with a non-NCAA coach, I think generally people bring that up because they're tired of the USAH ole entrenched boys club. They want an "outsider" because they think it means a change of pace, a change of perspective, a change in approach. It's an overreaction perhaps, and certainly unrealistic because we don't have many non-NCAA coaches anyway unless we go to the USHL where it's hopeful NCAA coaches. And it doesn't mean it will be successful of course; I think folks just yearn for non-predictability. Or at least when things aren't going well, they'll try to shake things up instead of tapping the same well over and over.

I think it's a bit at the root of the whole "does USAH have a CHL bias?" debate. I think people claim (implicit) bias in too many CHL player decisions, but I also understand why it feels that way - we're so entrenched with a hyper focus on the NCAA that it's easy for players outside that bubble to get lost because we're so comfortable staying in our bubble. And that kind of thing is why folks yearn for an outsider. They want a setup where the leading scorer in the OHL - who's also 19 - can actually get an invite to the selection camp for a team that is relying on too many 18 year olds to score while also fielding questionable scoring depth.

That said, it would kind of be fun to see Guy Gadowsky (even if he's Canadian) at the WJC with a team that just tried to win every game 7-6 haha.
 
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boucher played great

Who would have thought he'd be leading the team in goals and not PIMs through 2 games. I wouldn't say he was great but he's been noticeable in a good way, and has earned more ice time than a few guys getting more time than him, such as McGroarty, Savage, etc.
 
This is about as disappointing a start through the first two games of a WJC tournament that I can recall. They were unprepared and flat for most of the game against Latvia (relative to my expectations at least) and they came out and played the exact same way against the Slovaks. If the coaching staff doesn't make adjustments and do a better job of getting the team ready to compete from the opening whistle I have serious doubts about the next games and then a likely tough QF match up.

You could harp on the defense as a whole but I've been extremely disappointed with Luke Hughes thus far. He doesn't seem to be putting any thought or effort into things on the defensive side of the game, and it absolutely has to change. Replacing Peart as his partner would be one step in the right direction but he'll have to work and think harder regardless of who he's partnered with.

We're two games into the tournament but I'm just over it with Mberko. I've seen him perform poorly for US teams dating back to his NTDP days and I would rather just see them ride Augustine for better or worse. It's really shocking that there doesn't seem to be any really worthwhile goaltender in either of the '03 or '04 age groups and it definitely seems like this in indicative of a potentially larger issue with US goalie development.

I don't know why the coaching staff didn't shake anything up with the lines by the third but it seems like they have to going into the next game. The '04 line has talent and chemistry but they're missing the final product and with nothing really going for the other lines it seems like making changes is a must. Perhaps move either Blake or Boucher up with Cooley and Snuggerud and then have Gauthier center Brindley and Lucius. I had hoped for a lot more from the latter but not sure who else to expect much from offensively on the left side. McGroarty is reminding me of his play as an underager at the U18s a few years back where he was a non-factor. Duke hasn't been a factor. Connors will be taking a well deserved game off.

It's too early to throw in the towel and hopefully they make me eat my words but I'm about ready to close the book on the US '03 group at the junior level. There just really doesn't seem to be much there and it's really tough to be relying on younger players to drive the offense in this tournament.

In the bigger context it would be nice if things could be shaken up in terms of who calls the shots with USA Hockey at this level and the approach we take, but I doubt there'll be any real pressure to do so regardless of how things go. It reminds me a bit of how the US soccer federation just sort of does whatever they want without much consequence, and this is a way lower profile in the US sports world than that group. I'm sure all those calling the shots now will just do whatever they want indefinitely.
 
This is about as disappointing a start through the first two games of a WJC tournament that I can recall. They were unprepared and flat for most of the game against Latvia (relative to my expectations at least) and they came out and played the exact same way against the Slovaks. If the coaching staff doesn't make adjustments and do a better job of getting the team ready to compete from the opening whistle I have serious doubts about the next games and then a likely tough QF match up.

You could harp on the defense as a whole but I've been extremely disappointed with Luke Hughes thus far. He doesn't seem to be putting any thought or effort into things on the defensive side of the game, and it absolutely has to change. Replacing Peart as his partner would be one step in the right direction but he'll have to work and think harder regardless of who he's partnered with.

We're two games into the tournament but I'm just over it with Mberko. I've seen him perform poorly for US teams dating back to his NTDP days and I would rather just see them ride Augustine for better or worse. It's really shocking that there doesn't seem to be any really worthwhile goaltender in either of the '03 or '04 age groups and it definitely seems like this in indicative of a potentially larger issue with US goalie development.

I don't know why the coaching staff didn't shake anything up with the lines by the third but it seems like they have to going into the next game. The '04 line has talent and chemistry but they're missing the final product and with nothing really going for the other lines it seems like making changes is a must. Perhaps move either Blake or Boucher up with Cooley and Snuggerud and then have Gauthier center Brindley and Lucius. I had hoped for a lot more from the latter but not sure who else to expect much from offensively on the left side. McGroarty is reminding me of his play as an underager at the U18s a few years back where he was a non-factor. Duke hasn't been a factor. Connors will be taking a well deserved game off.

It's too early to throw in the towel and hopefully they make me eat my words but I'm about ready to close the book on the US '03 group at the junior level. There just really doesn't seem to be much there and it's really tough to be relying on younger players to drive the offense in this tournament.

In the bigger context it would be nice if things could be shaken up in terms of who calls the shots with USA Hockey at this level and the approach we take, but I doubt there'll be any real pressure to do so regardless of how things go. It reminds me a bit of how the US soccer federation just sort of does whatever they want without much consequence, and this is a way lower profile in the US sports world than that group. I'm sure all those calling the shots now will just do whatever they want indefinitely.

Agree with every single word here. Well written. And nice to have you back in the mix, Cagney.
 
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The big issue is that we never perform with these age groups who are more average. It should not be the case anymore. We get success only when it is with our top age groups. Even with them they were able to get outcoached in U18s with the 01s and 04s. It is not like Canada or even Finns always have a great age group, but they are better to find a way. The 03s have always been one of the most average age groups but then you could argue that there are players outside of NTDP. Ty Voit as an example is a scoring leader in the OHL and he didn't even get a look at camp. NTDP is great but we need to get rid of bias towards graduates. That said, I have to say the 04s have been a big letdown so far in this tournament. They are the next age group on line who should be able to bring the gold and I expected that they would be able to carry this team already this year.
 
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could really use Voit TBH
Yeah, adding a small, offense only forward would cure what ails them. To be fair, I think Voit should have gotten more consideration but the main issue with this team is they are loose and so far poorly coached. The coaching staff thinks they are playing 4-D chess with their scheme but it's not panning out. It doesn't help we don't really have the goaltending to compensate.
 
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Yeah, he shouldn't have been hired in the first place. And to your point they'd probably just replace him with Brian Burke.

I'd take Drury over JVB in a heartbeat, although I can't imagine any NHL GM leaving the league for USAH unless it's because no one in the league is interested in their services.

I'd love to see them go after a younger guy like Ryan Hardy or someone like that. Hardy has USAH experience (NTDP), he turned the Chicago Steel into a powerhouse in short order, and now he has professional experience with the Leafs organization. He's not the most experienced guy they could get but he's young and from a current era of hockey, which would be a huge bonus. Go after someone who's hungry to either build their name or earn their next opportunity (i.e., NHL GM) rather than the typical USAH executive who just wants a cushy retirement gig.
Finished my thoughts in a sense about Drury. Why would he leave the Rangers ? Helped build a good team with Gorton. I like the idea of a younger hungry team executive that has a pulse on young players. Clearly the coaches don‘t have that pulse nor know how to manage their players during a game.

Sometimes I think USA hockey gets lucky when they hire a Dean Blais or a Nate Leaman. Then USA hockey turns around n hires duds. Cyclical chaos. I‘d bet JVB is pretty satisfied with himself. He‘s dropping the ball. Under his watch USA hockey should have more Gold Medals. Too much talent to not be winning more U20 WJCs.
 
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I’m as pessimistic as the next guy. But winning our next 2 games gets us the 1 seed. Which means we should play a game for a medal.
 
Finished my thoughts in a sense about Drury. Why would he leave the Rangers ? Helped build a good team with Gorton. I like the idea of a younger hungry team executive that has a pulse on young players. Clearly the coaches don‘t have that pulse nor know how to manage their players during a game.

Sometimes I think USA hockey gets lucky when they hire a Dean Blais or a Nate Leaman. Then USA hockey turns around n hires duds. Cyclical chaos. I‘d bet JVB is pretty satisfied with himself. He‘s dropping the ball. Under his watch USA hockey should have more Gold Medals. Too much talent to not be winning more U20 WJCs.
Blais went from hero to goat though. The individual coach is important but so is team construction and execution. Our up and down performance at tournaments like this is really a commentary on the USNTDP in my opinion. I think we're at the stage where it's past it's apex and needs to be revaluated. It doesn't help that USA Hockey like so many similar bodies is a good old boy network.
 
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We're two games into the tournament but I'm just over it with Mberko. I've seen him perform poorly for US teams dating back to his NTDP days and I would rather just see them ride Augustine for better or worse. It's really shocking that there doesn't seem to be any really worthwhile goaltender in either of the '03 or '04 age groups and it definitely seems like this in indicative of a potentially larger issue with US goalie development.
Hmmmm...there IS a 3rd option available...Andrew Oke is 6-0 in his last 6 games in the high-scoring OHL with a 2.17GAA and a .917 save percentage over the last month and a half. Oh ya, from all accounts he also had a great camp with the Red Wings. He plays against other team's stars like Othman, Mesar, Sapovaliv on a weekly basis and completely outplayed Canada's #1 goalie (Gaudreau) in his last start in Sarnia. As I said in previous posts I'm of course biased because I'm a Saginaw fan but from what I've seen from the US goalies last year and this year, there's zero reason for him to be a healthy scratch when he will be one of the top goalies in the OHL next year on a great Saginaw team and should be the #1 option for the US next year. The CHL bias is real and it's an absolute joke that guys like Pastujov and Voit aren't on this team and that Oke is sitting every game in streetclothes.
 
Blais went from hero to goat though. The individual coach is important but so is team construction and execution. Our up and down performance at tournaments like this is really a commentary on the USNTDP in my opinion. I think we're at the stage where it's past it's apex and needs to be revaluated. It doesn't help that USA Hockey like so many similar bodies is a good old boy network.
Could the up and down performance simply reflect the fortunes of stronger and weaker birth years, relative to other countries? Shouldn't it almost be expected?
 
Could the up and down performance simply reflect the fortunes of stronger and weaker birth years, relative to other countries? Shouldn't it almost be expected?
That can play a part. The U.S. isn't at the stage where every year is a golden generation. That said, something stinks at USA Hockey. The NTDP, the selection process for teams, the questionable coaching depth, goaltending going from a position of strength to a weakness, in game tactics, etc. This year's team (so far) is really a microcosm of all of these issues.

Hmmmm...there IS a 3rd option available...Andrew Oke is 6-0 in his last 6 games in the high-scoring OHL with a 2.17GAA and a .917 save percentage over the last month and a half. Oh ya, from all accounts he also had a great camp with the Red Wings. He plays against other team's stars like Othman, Mesar, Sapovaliv on a weekly basis and completely outplayed Canada's #1 goalie (Gaudreau) in his last start in Sarnia. As I said in previous posts I'm of course biased because I'm a Saginaw fan but from what I've seen from the US goalies last year and this year, there's zero reason for him to be a healthy scratch when he will be one of the top goalies in the OHL next year on a great Saginaw team and should be the #1 option for the US next year. The CHL bias is real and it's an absolute joke that guys like Pastujov and Voit aren't on this team and that Oke is sitting every game in streetclothes.
In past years Oke would likely be the starter. The U.S. used to rely on more of a CHL presence but with the advent of the USNTDP which is integrated with the USHL/NCAA those numbers have dipped. I think that's a problem.
 
Hmmmm...there IS a 3rd option available...Andrew Oke is 6-0 in his last 6 games in the high-scoring OHL with a 2.17GAA and a .917 save percentage over the last month and a half. Oh ya, from all accounts he also had a great camp with the Red Wings. He plays against other team's stars like Othman, Mesar, Sapovaliv on a weekly basis and completely outplayed Canada's #1 goalie (Gaudreau) in his last start in Sarnia. As I said in previous posts I'm of course biased because I'm a Saginaw fan but from what I've seen from the US goalies last year and this year, there's zero reason for him to be a healthy scratch when he will be one of the top goalies in the OHL next year on a great Saginaw team and should be the #1 option for the US next year. The CHL bias is real and it's an absolute joke that guys like Pastujov and Voit aren't on this team and that Oke is sitting every game in streetclothes.

I mean I'm all for any goalie other than Mbereko but you're talking about a 6 game sample size, man, while conveniently leaving out the other 3 games this year and Oke's stats last year. I sure hope that Oke has established himself as a top goalie in the CHL ahead of the next WJC, but let's not act like they're leaving a surefire #1 on the sidelines.

If there was a CHL bias against Oke they would have left him home.
 
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Hmmmm...there IS a 3rd option available...Andrew Oke is 6-0 in his last 6 games in the high-scoring OHL with a 2.17GAA and a .917 save percentage over the last month and a half. Oh ya, from all accounts he also had a great camp with the Red Wings. He plays against other team's stars like Othman, Mesar, Sapovaliv on a weekly basis and completely outplayed Canada's #1 goalie (Gaudreau) in his last start in Sarnia. As I said in previous posts I'm of course biased because I'm a Saginaw fan but from what I've seen from the US goalies last year and this year, there's zero reason for him to be a healthy scratch when he will be one of the top goalies in the OHL next year on a great Saginaw team and should be the #1 option for the US next year. The CHL bias is real and it's an absolute joke that guys like Pastujov and Voit aren't on this team and that Oke is sitting every game in streetclothes.

Was wondering the same thing about Mbereko and a possible anti-CHL , pro-NTDP bias but then in looking at both major junior and college hockey I was surprised at how few American goalies in the '03 and '04 groups are having standout seasons or playing a lot for that matter.

Other than Braden Holt and the aforementioned Oke the pickings seem slim.
 
Was wondering the same thing about Mbereko and a possible anti-CHL , pro-NTDP bias but then in looking at both major junior and college hockey I was surprised at how few American goalies in the '03 and '04 groups are having standout seasons or playing a lot for that matter.

Other than Braden Holt and the aforementioned Oke the pickings seem slim.
While there is a pro-USNTDP "legacy" bias your point stands. It's not a great crop of young American goaltenders in development right now.
 
While there is a pro-USNTDP "legacy" bias your point stands. It's not a great crop of young American goaltenders in development right now.

About the best in terms of numbers is Michigan State recruit Luca Di Pasquo, an '03 playing in the BCHL for Penticton. If I had to guess that has something to do with the Vees team in front of him since he's 19-2.
 
About the best in terms of numbers is Michigan State recruit Luca Di Pasquo, an '03 playing in the BCHL for Penticton. If I had to guess that has something to do with the Vees team in front of him since he's 19-2.
I guess the point I was making is a ton of money and effort is spent by USA Hockey developing goaltending talent and the results aren't really there currently. To be fair though the position overall has taken a hit. You see it from the NHL level down.
 
I guess the point I was making is a ton of money and effort is spent by USA Hockey developing goaltending talent and the results aren't really there currently. To be fair though the position overall has taken a hit. You see it from the NHL level down.

Haven't followed the USHL as closely as in year's past and was surprised to see how many goalies are from either Canada or Europe.

I imagine some of that is leftover from Ontario shutting down two years ago but I guess it should give a boost to US college hockey.
 

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