WJC: 2023 Team USA Roster Talk

[thethirdhockeyman91]

We suck

 

[William H Bonney]

We're rolling 7 d in a period where we need goals. Chesley couldn't buy a shift in the first 40 but now he's getting shifts. Makes no sense.

 

[SK94]

Crazy how bad you can actually be with this kind of talent. I guess it is often underestimated how much one year can do with young players. Now they look like a U18 team.

 

[SK94]

One of the most pathetic efforts I have ever seen from Team USA in the World Juniors...

 

[William H Bonney]

I'd be pretty shocked if they make it out of the QF barring a really advantageous crossover matchup. They're too poorly coached, too individualistic, too little chemistry, and the '03s have not stepped up at all, which was a necessity on such a young team.

We've fallen apart this game. The wheels have come off. And we've changed nothing. The lines are the same. We're rolling the entire lineup.

 

[jcbio11]

Why don't you guys use the GDT? I was just thinking we could use some American posters in there.

 

[William H Bonney]

Why don't you guys use the GDT? I was just thinking we could use some American posters in there.

Too much trolling / lack of moderation in GDTs. Rarely any good discussion.

 

[jcbio11]

Too much trolling / lack of moderation in GDTs. Rarely any good discussion.

Fair enough.

 

[William H Bonney]

Lol. Pecknold waits until there are only 5 minutes left and down by 3 to coach with any urgency.

 

[William H Bonney]

They didn't play or coach like they understood the urgency or issues with how they've played through the first 2 games. Glad to see them lose as they didn't seem to want to win.

At what point does John Vanbiesbrouck's seat get hot? He was a horrible hire and our junior program has been on a downward slide since he took over, and that's the thing he's most responsible for.

Baco should get a match penalty for that. Dirty f***ing play.

 

[William H Bonney]

Congrats to Slovakia on the deserved win. The Baco dirtbag play there to end it and the team cheering him on even after the review while he's acting a fool for cross checking a guy in the face was pretty classless, though. Act like you've won a game before.

 

[Zero Pucks Given]

 

[Taswell]

One thing that's been really evident across this tourney is how poor the youth goaltender scene is, Suchanek being the exception.

 

[William H Bonney]

One thing that's been really evident across this tourney is how poor the youth goaltender scene is, Suchanek being the exception.

It's an issue I've been calling out the NTDP on for awhile. They put far too many resources into the goalies at the program to have such a low success rate like they do. That program should be putting out a good (at worst) junior goalie every year. Guys should not be getting selected for that program, getting the insane amount of personal coaching and training they do, and then struggle to find playing time after the program. Yet it happens all the time. And that's with the NTDP getting to personally choose their goalies!

Like why the hell did a Dylan St. Cyr or Kaiden Mbereko ever make the NTDP? They had and have zero professional potential. I don't care if they're light years ahead of their peers, pick a goalie with a projectable frame and try to coach them up. They have very little success doing that, but it's wild how much they prioritize players in the program who have like 2-4 year shelf life at best with USAH.

 

[Taswell]

It's an issue I've been calling out the NTDP on for awhile. They put far too many resources into the goalies at the program to have such a low success rate like they do. That program should be putting out a good (at worst) junior goalie every year. Guys should not be getting selected for that program, getting the insane amount of personal coaching and training they do, and then struggle to find playing time after the program. Yet it happens all the time. And that's with the NTDP getting to personally choose their goalies!

Like why the hell did a Dylan St. Cyr or Kaiden Mbereko ever make the NTDP? They had and have zero professional potential. I don't care if they're light years ahead of their peers, pick a goalie with a protectable frame and try to coach them up. They have very little success doing that, but it's wild how much they prioritize players in the program who have like 2-4 year shelf life at best with USAH.

Its not much better up in Canada, and elsewhere. There isn't really any highly touted goaltending prospects being developed anywhere other than Russia, and even that train has slowed down after Vasi, Shesty, Sorokin, and possibly Askarov depending on how he develops. The days of highly touted goalies going into the draft like the Price and MAF eras seems long over.

I wonder how much of it has to do with the cost to play the position from a young age. Equipment only keeps getting more expensive, and when they are young, they are outgrowing it rapidly.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

"At what point does John Vanbiesbrouck's seat get hot ?"

What are the odds Vanbiesbrouck gets replaced by another member of the US ol boys club ? I don't think the circus will end.

I wouldn't mind Drury. He was able to successfully get a bunch of good pros to go to the Worlds. It would be a good step away from the Shero/Burke/Poille clown act.

 

[William H Bonney]

"At what point does John Vanbiesbrouck's seat get hot ?"

What are the odds Vanbiesbrouck gets replaced by another member of the US ol boys club ? I don't think the circus will end.

I wouldn't mind Drury. He was able to successfully get a bunch of good pros to go to the Worlds. It would be a good step away from the Shero/Burke/Poille clown act.

Yeah, he shouldn't have been hired in the first place. And to your point they'd probably just replace him with Brian Burke.

I'd take Drury over JVB in a heartbeat, although I can't imagine any NHL GM leaving the league for USAH unless it's because no one in the league is interested in their services.

I'd love to see them go after a younger guy like Ryan Hardy or someone like that. Hardy has USAH experience (NTDP), he turned the Chicago Steel into a powerhouse in short order, and now he has professional experience with the Leafs organization. He's not the most experienced guy they could get but he's young and from a current era of hockey, which would be a huge bonus. Go after someone who's hungry to either build their name or earn their next opportunity (i.e., NHL GM) rather than the typical USAH executive who just wants a cushy retirement gig.

 

[William H Bonney]

Coaching has been a continual issue for our WJC teams and it's been rearing its ugly head through 2 games here.

What would you be in favor of in trying to remedy that continual issue?

1. Nothing. Coaching is fine.

2. Hire a full time junior coach like a lot of the European programs.

3. Choose more coaches from outside the NCAA (i.e., out of work NHL coaches like we did with Ron Wilson, USHL coaches, etc.)

4. Stick to the NCAA because that's where our options are, but pick better coaches.

5. Hire a non-American.

I'm torn. We don't have much depth outside of the NCAA, which is a huge issue created by USAH. With the current NTDP / USAH setup it'd be hard to make a full time junior coach work and USAH wouldn't do it anyway. And USAH is too much of an ole boys club to go for a non-American, outside of maybe a dual who is more aligned with another country (i.e., when Jon Cooper coached for USAH before making it big) but eager for the opportunity.

I'd love to see something creative but I imagine we'll just get NCAA coach after NCAA coach. If that's the route, I hope we at least get a fresh voice for a change and not another 55+ NCAA lifer. Someone like David Carle.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

I'm not sure if size/toughness is the issue on the backend. They simply can't defend. You accept that wart with Hughes and maybe Hutson but the rest have no excuse, they aren't that good offensively.

 

[95snipes]

It's evident to me you need to split up Gauthier and Cooley. I realize they played together at the program, but Gauthier's proved this year he's more dangerous/effective at center. Keep Cooley/Snuggerud together as they have good chemistry and let Gauthier run his own line. Spread out the scoring and right now it feels like Gauthier is being wasted/marginalized in his current role. Lucius can either play wing or center the 3rd line.

 

[William H Bonney]

It's evident to me you need to split up Gauthier and Cooley. I realize they played together at the program, but Gauthier's proved this year he's more dangerous/effective at center. Keep Cooley/Snuggerud together as they have good chemistry and let Gauthier run his own line. Spread out the scoring and right now it feels like Gauthier is being wasted/marginalized in his current role. Lucius can either play wing or center the 3rd line.

Yeah, this. Gauthier is so much better at center. When at wing he gets too comfortable playing a perimeter game with low percentage shots.

 

[NewHampshire]

I'd love to see them go after a younger guy like Ryan Hardy or someone like that. Hardy has USAH experience (NTDP), he turned the Chicago Steel into a powerhouse in short order, and now he has professional experience with the Leafs organization. He's not the most experienced guy they could get but he's young and from a current era of hockey, which would be a huge bonus.

Shhhh - he's on my shortlist in hopes UNH decides to take hockey seriously again in the near future...

 

[NewHampshire]

It's one game. This is a wild tournament full of short sample size ups and downs. I'm not ready to overreact to a team that breezed past Finland & Sweden and is just 1-0-0-1 in pool play. If a wake up call is coming, now is the time - last year's team was humming along until their wake up call came too late in the tournament for a response. Let's see how they bounce back...

I'm an NCAA guy - obviously - but I see nothing but successive strong, talented and creative coaches suffering at the hands of a short/unpredictable event. I would concede that guys like Pecknold and Sandelin are heavy systems coaches, and perhaps their success comes from the ability to coach over a long sample size, but Leaman was perfect for this tournament (as evidenced by his success - a title & a gaudy winning percentage). I'm not sold on Carle (even as a DU season ticket holder for his first couple of seasons)...

There are other great fits in the NCAA ranks - Nightengale, Carvel, Hastings among them. The only other fits that would know the talent pool, and coaching in the age group, better than the NCAA guys would be the NTDP coaches taking turns.

That said, I think the nature of the tournament lends itself to taking your chances with a hire - and if you don't win the tournament, opening yourself up to criticism based on short sample sizes. Its the nature of the beast.

I won't even begin to judge Pecknold's performance until this time tomorrow. If the team doesn't respond to their talent level and play with energy then there is cause for concern. I still like their chances to win the group...

 

[William H Bonney]

I'm not sure if size/toughness is the issue on the backend. They simply can't defend. You accept that wart with Hughes and maybe Hutson but the rest have no excuse, they aren't that good offensively.

You need some balance. And they didn't try for any. Part of that was the '03 American class isn't great. But they also seemed dead set on this type of defense and didn't really try to evaluate different options. I would disagree on size, though. Even if they were dead set on going with mobile puck movers, a guy like Buium would have at least provided a lot of size and length, which can go a long way in recovering from / neutralizing mistakes, better gaps, etc.

They're playing a game liable to burn any defensive core structured the way they are, though, given the lack of chemistry and sustained offensive zone play. The team's passing has been horrid, the defense has been committing a lot of unforced turnovers, and their neutral zone play and offensive zone entries have been poor. They're playing with fire and getting burned.

Another issue is the pairings. It's mine boggling why Peart and not Behrens is with Hughes. One, Hughes and Behrens have a lot of successful history playing together. And two, Peart has been trash in his WJC appearances.

 

[William H Bonney]

It's one game. This is a wild tournament full of short sample size ups and downs. I'm not ready to overreact to a team that breezed past Finland & Sweden and is just 1-0-0-1 in pool play. If a wake up call is coming, now is the time - last year's team was humming along until their wake up call came too late in the tournament for a response. Let's see how they bounce back...

I'm an NCAA guy - obviously - but I see nothing but successive strong, talented and creative coaches suffering at the hands of a short/unpredictable event. I would concede that guys like Pecknold and Sandelin are heavy systems coaches, and perhaps their success comes from the ability to coach over a long sample size, but Leaman was perfect for this tournament (as evidenced by his success - a title & a gaudy winning percentage). I'm not sold on Carle (even as a DU season ticket holder for his first couple of seasons)...

There are other great fits in the NCAA ranks - Nightengale, Carvel, Hastings among them. The only other fits that would know the talent pool, and coaching in the age group, better than the NCAA guys would be the NTDP coaches taking turns.

That said, I think the nature of the tournament lends itself to taking your chances with a hire - and if you don't win the tournament, opening yourself up to criticism based on short sample sizes. Its the nature of the beast.

I won't even begin to judge Pecknold's performance until this time tomorrow...

I don't necessarily disagree with anything you said other than I'd say systems coaches are a huge red flag for tournaments, and you gloss over that astute point after making it. You simply don't have time to put in robust systems, you have to coach with agility and simplicity. That doesn't mean a systems coach can't be really successful here, but not if they're just trying to put in their normal systems in place. It's been worrisome how much we've heard about Pecknold and his staff putting in place their exact Quinnipiac systems, like on the PK. It doesn't work. They don't have the time nor do they have the same players.

It reminds me of when Brian Burke and John Tortorella always wanted to approach the senior tournaments like they thought they could just wear down teams as if they got to play them in a 7 game series, not single matchups where you're supposed to be building your own team, not wearing down the opposition. That system or approach might work in the format the coach/staff is used to, but this isn't that format and treating it as such increases the odds of failure.

It's too early to write off Pecknold but so far it's been a failure. They looked bad in the opener, too. Had they played any other team in the group besides Latvia in that one, they'd be 0-2 right now. And he hasn't changed anything up, which is his next test. If they roll into the Swiss game with all the same lines, I'm beyond worried. And if they play anything like they have in the first 2 games, they'll likely lose to the Swiss.

Hastings has coached here before. He was the coach when they won silver in 2019. Carvel is another name I think we'll see get tapped soon. Nightingale is an interesting one. With his early success at MSU, and his ties to the NTDP, I wouldn't be surprised to see him get a shot soon, too. I remember when the USAH nepotism got the NTDP coaches chances at the WJC. David Quinn was a spectacular failure haha.