WJC: 2023 Team Canada Roster Talk Part 2

[Leviathan899]

These boomers that are arguing with you are absolutely lost. Both of the attempts were done in stride with no clear better option available. Bedard’s in particular was executed to perfection, other than the goalie defended it really well. If you can create a good scoring chance out of nothing from behind the net why not try it. It has nothing to do with showboating and everything to do with the fact that they both had good setups to try it to score.

Therefore it wasn’t executed to perfection. It was no different than a guy taking a shot right into the goalies chest. It’s a low percentage play that is 100% selfish, there is a reason all the players are making backhanded remarks towards it. It looks cheap and proves you’re not 100% taking things serious, or you want to embarrass your opponent. Either way it’s a cute play that has a low conversion rate and is no different than a wrap around, another play which practically died since it led to so few goals. This will too, once it loses its luster. Also, using the term boomer unironically automatically shows you’re immature incapable of formulating a strong argument.

 

[novisor]

I agree.

My only problem is your final paragraph. I agree, it's a pain, but I'm not sure how you split that "hair" your mentioned because, it's either offside or onside, with nothing in between.

I might change the rule to say, "Once the puck has been in the zone for more than 10(?) seconds, there is no review". Of course, people will argue about 10.1 or 10.9 seconds so there is no easy answer.

There has to be a judgment made as to whether a) the offside (could have) meaningfully altered the outcome of the play and b) if the naked eye could determine the offside at game speed and not on the 19th replay slowed down 40x.

 

[ORRFForever]

There has to be a judgment made as to whether a) the offside (could have) meaningfully altered the outcome of the play and b) if the naked eye could determine the offside at game speed and not on the 19th replay slowed down 40x.

That makes it subjective and opens up a can of worms.

I'd prefer the current method to people making judgement calls.

 

[nbwingsfan]

It's more of the insult that gets added to the move. Look I love it when it works but when it doesn't work and you keep trying to embarass your opponent and then lose 5-2 you just look bad. It's what happens with stuff like that. It's like showboating on your way to a TD only to get tackled and fumble the ball and lose posession.

It's a move that shows you have zero respect for your opponent and you think you can just toy with them. You look like a giant loser when you try it multiple times and keep failing at it while losing 5-2.

None of this makes sense.

It’s been proven to be a pretty valuable and high percentage goal opportunity when done correctly. What’s the difference between this and breaking a defensemans ankles from a deke but then having the goalie make the save?

Should we only allow wrist shots from the slot otherwise you’re just “embarrassing your opponent”?

???


Showboating is in the eye of the beholder. I am not sure what point the other posters are trying to make. If they think it's not showboating, God bless em.

Agree to disagree, as you said.

You’re literally saying he’s being “selfish” because he didn’t try to pass the puck.

How does that make even a shred of sense? Wouldn’t that make all shots “selfish”

 

[nbwingsfan]

That's what happens on the ice though, Has nothing to do with how fans feel about it. When you get scored on with a michigan it's f***ing deflating as hell.

I mean if it's such a legit play whey not just keep skating behind the net and trying it every time? Why do anything else but just setup Michigans time and time again?



Oh Bedard was 100% trying to embarrass them. Zero doubt about that in my mind. That's just the type of player he is. Dude has a swagger and he isn't afraid to show it. It's part of what I like about the kid but you gotta bury those. Because you look terrible if you don't and then get your ass handed to you on a platter 5-2.

Why not do the Michigan every single time?

1. Not easy to do

2. There COULD be better plays available

3. Part of the reason it works when pulled off is that it’s a surprise when someone does. If you do it every time Then players/goalies catch on and it can be easy to defend against.

4. End to end goals against ate deflating. Ankle breaking dekes are deflating.

Should we call anyone who dries out the opposition or skates end to to end to score a showboating jerk face too?

 

[nbwingsfan]

Sincere question to all the posters who see no problem with The Michigan (God, I HATE that name)...

If you were Team Canada's coach, would you let the players continue to play like they did on Monday night or force them to buckle down and play "old hard Canadian dump and chase hockey"?

I won't argue with your answer. I'm just curious.

I’d want them to play harder, but I’m sure as hell not going to tell them to play with zero creativity and tell them dump, chase and rebounds are all that’s allowed.

 

[ORRFForever]

None of this makes sense.

It’s been proven to be a pretty valuable and high percentage goal opportunity when done correctly. What’s the difference between this and breaking a defensemans ankles from a deke but then having the goalie make the save?

Should we only allow wrist shots from the slot otherwise you’re just “embarrassing your opponent”?


You’re literally saying he’s being “selfish” because he didn’t try to pass the puck.

How does that make even a shred of sense? Wouldn’t that make all shots “selfish”

He was selfish because he tried a showboat trick play instead of being a team player. Same with Fantilli.

It blew up in their faces when they failed, pissed off the Czechs and then the Czechs played good old fashioned hockey and kicked our ass. I just hope we learned our lesson.

 

[rielledup]

That's what happens on the ice though, Has nothing to do with how fans feel about it. When you get scored on with a michigan it's f***ing deflating as hell.

I mean if it's such a legit play whey not just keep skating behind the net and trying it every time? Why do anything else but just setup Michigans time and time again?



Oh Bedard was 100% trying to embarrass them. Zero doubt about that in my mind. That's just the type of player he is. Dude has a swagger and he isn't afraid to show it. It's part of what I like about the kid but you gotta bury those. Because you look terrible if you don't and then get your ass handed to you on a platter 5-2.

Not everyone is confident enought to try it or good enough at it to try it, and it depends on the situation and how much time and space you have to try it.

I mean there isn't anywhere for me to go from here if you are 100% convinced that Bedard was trying to embarrass them, guess we'll have to leave it at that

 

[rielledup]

Sincere question to all the posters who see no problem with The Michigan (God, I HATE that name)...

If you were Team Canada's coach, would you let the players continue to play like they did on Monday night or force them to buckle down and play "old hard Canadian dump and chase hockey"?

I won't argue with your answer. I'm just curious.

The two things aren't mutually exclusive. You could dump the puck in and create a turnover off of an aggressive forecheck and find yourself in a good position to attempt the Michigan.

But no, this team has too much talent to resort to consistently dumping and chasing, why would you want that? What's even the point of having such a skilled team if you aren't going to let them use that skill?

He was selfish because he tried a showboat trick play instead of being a team player. Same with Fantilli.

It blew up in their faces when they failed, pissed off the Czechs and then the Czechs played good old fashioned hockey and kicked our ass. I just hope we learned our lesson.

You talk about people being dug in, and yet you are about as dug in as someone could possibly be.

 

[ORRFForever]

You talk about people being dug in, and yet you are about as dug in as someone could possibly be.

Yes. We all are. That's why I said it.

 

[prongertheman9]

Therefore it wasn’t executed to perfection. It was no different than a guy taking a shot right into the goalies chest. It’s a low percentage play that is 100% selfish, there is a reason all the players are making backhanded remarks towards it. It looks cheap and proves you’re not 100% taking things serious, or you want to embarrass your opponent. Either way it’s a cute play that has a low conversion rate and is no different than a wrap around, another play which practically died since it led to so few goals. This will too, once it loses its luster. Also, using the term boomer unironically automatically shows you’re immature incapable of formulating a strong argument.

The execution was perfect but the outcome wasn’t. I’m not a fan of Michigan’s in general but there are A+ setups and I thought Bedard had one. In a vacuum I don’t think there is anything wrong or showboaty about trying one in the right situation - it’s just another way to score, an increasing common one. Were they a microcosm of the of the larger problem that the team was playing like individuals? Yea probably - but that is a different conversation. People are making a mountain out of a mole hill here about what should be looked at as 2 regular failed scoring chances. It’s not like they are on breakaways trying to zoro - they are behind the net and seeminglly creating viable scoring opportunities where no other blatantly superior option exists.

 

[PaulD]

Showboating has to do with the intention of the player doing the play that you think is showboating. You obviously have no way of knowing what Bedards intentions were

And neither do you.

We have opinions. And they differ .

Move on

Cheers

 

[nbwingsfan]

He was selfish because he tried a showboat trick play instead of being a team player. Same with Fantilli.

It blew up in their faces when they failed, pissed off the Czechs and then the Czechs played good old fashioned hockey and kicked our ass. I just hope we learned our lesson.

How is this a “show boat trick play”? It’s worked on it’s fair share of opportunities.

Do you make these same comments when I player dekes through the device se, embarrassing them, but doesn’t score?

Players should only focus on shots on net in the fear that it might “piss off” the other team if they embarrass them through skill?

 

[ORRFForever]

How is this a “show boat trick play”? It’s worked on it’s fair share of opportunities.

Do you make these same comments when I player dekes through the device se, embarrassing them, but doesn’t score?

Players should only focus on shots on net in the fear that it might “piss off” the other team if they embarrass them through skill?

I don't want to keep arguing this, nb. We will never agree.

Let's just hope Canada finds the right recipe to win Gold.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

I have no issue with the Michigan attempts. Both were done well and had a chance of going in. The goalie and defenseman reacted well to the attempt.

 

[MM917]

Sincere question to all the posters who see no problem with The Michigan (God, I HATE that name)...

If you were Team Canada's coach, would you let the players continue to play like they did on Monday night or force them to buckle down and play "old hard Canadian dump and chase hockey"?

I won't argue with your answer. I'm just curious.

They shouldn't play dump and chase, although I am also not sure why that is considered old hard Canadian style, our best teams never played that way not sure why they would.

I don't necessarily want them to try the hot dog plays every time but I don't think that play had any impact on the outcome of the game.

 

[ORRFForever]

They shouldn't play dump and chase, although I am also not sure why that is considered old hard Canadian style, our best teams never played that way not sure why they would.

I don't necessarily want them to try the hot dog plays every time but I don't think that play had any impact on the outcome of the game.

I didn't phrase it properly but I'm sure you know what I mean.

This is a BIG team. Wear the other teams down with our size and put them away with our skill. That is the winning recipe.

More Mark Messier, less Meadowlark Lemon.

 

[MM917]

I didn't phrase it properly but I'm sure you know what I mean.

This is a BIG team. Wear the other teams down with our size and put them away with our skill. That is the winning recipe.

Yes I agree with that.

I was just taking issue with the dump and chase idea, I don't think this team, or any Canada team, should ever give up possession like that. They have so much more talent than everyone else they need to maintain control at all times.

It was their worst possible game with terrible luck and a horrible call. Everything went wrong and they still ran circles around the Czechs. Play that game 10 more times Canada wins 10 times. I know it is frustrating to lose especially to a team as bad as the Czechs but Canada should be fine if they just stick to playing their game.

 

[ORRFForever]

Yes I agree with that.

I was just taking issue with the dump and chase idea, I don't think this team, or any Canada team, should ever give up possession like that. They have so much more talent than everyone else they need to maintain control at all times.

It was their worst possible game with terrible luck and a horrible call. Everything went wrong and they still ran circles around the Czechs. Play that game 10 more times Canada wins 10 times. I know it is frustrating to lose especially to a team as bad as the Czechs but Canada should be fine if they just stick to playing their game.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Regarding the Michigan, all I can say is, it's a really good thing for these kids there are no Scott Stevens type players on the ice. I don't think they realize how vulnerable they are to a monster hit while trying that move.

 

[canuck2010]

These boomers that are arguing with you are absolutely lost. Both of the attempts were done in stride with no clear better option available. Bedard’s in particular was executed to perfection, other than the goalie defended it really well. If you can create a good scoring chance out of nothing from behind the net why not try it. It has nothing to do with showboating and everything to do with the fact that they both had good setups to try it to score.

"These boomers". What an asshole of a thing to say. Do you always ascribe opinions that you disagree agree with to boomers?

 

[GermanSpitfire]

I just find it hilarious that Canada lost and instead of arguing over bad goaltending, or blown defensive coverages, or lack of discipline - you know, the REAL reason Canada lost.

People are arguing about two shot attempts over the whole game. Get a grip.

 

[Mathieukferland]

Sincere question to all the posters who see no problem with The Michigan (God, I HATE that name)...

If you were Team Canada's coach, would you let the players continue to play like they did on Monday night or force them to buckle down and play "old hard Canadian dump and chase hockey"?

I won't argue with your answer. I'm just curious.

I’m curious if you see an issue with a tweener shot; another move that has become popular recently. Is that showboating, or just inventive?

 

[TheGroceryStick]

I just find it hilarious that Canada lost and instead of arguing over bad goaltending, or blown defensive coverages, or lack of discipline - you know, the REAL reason Canada lost.

People are arguing about two shot attempts over the whole game. Get a grip.

Kinda looks like debating about lack of discipline and selfishness (those 2 shot attempts being part of it)

Taking nothing away from Czech(iunno what to call em now) they played unreal and will be a hard out in this tourney.
But the optimist in me says "take the slap on the mouth early, get back to work and prove it was just a bad night... you're the better team"

I guess we'll see.

 

[jj cale]

I just find it hilarious that Canada lost and instead of arguing over bad goaltending, or blown defensive coverages, or lack of discipline - you know, the REAL reason Canada lost.

People are arguing about two shot attempts over the whole game. Get a grip.

You're entirely correct, two players trying the Michigan are far from the reason we lost. To me, there is nothing inherently wrong in the play, it's a play like any other and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't like any other play. But we've got it out of our system now and we should be concentrating in this next game and going forward working on the things that really matter that you and some other posters mentioned here.

Leave the Michigan out tonight and other way too fancy stuff , focus on just playing the right way and getting it right, the Canadian way. As the late great Kenny Rogers once said................You never count you're money when you're sitting at the table, they'll be time enough for counting when the dealings done.

Canada was counting before the dealing was done last game.