2023 Tank Thread (Mod post Page 60)

[GunnarStahl]

Since it seems the Ducks will likely finish bottom 5 this year, I figured we should have a thread for discussing the implications of where the f***s will finish in the standings. As well as what factors could affect where they finish.

Tonight was interesting as all bottom 5 teams earned 2 points sans the Ducks and the Hawks.

Hey Folks,

Want to clear some of the air here, Tank talk is not an issue, please talk tank to your heart’s content here, totally understand how critical it is for that Future Potential Top pick. The issue is posting in the GDT, like you want the team to lose or make posts that you are angry they are winning or won the game, or bashing the team for not tanking.

The main reason is, to respect your fellow members. The GDT is about discussion of the game on a live basis and then post game discussion and opinions. A lot of fans are not rooting for the team to lose, and everyone has their views and opinions towards tanking, and may not want to discuss tanking in the GDT

If you guys have any concerns, feel free to PM me or another mod, and would be happy to explain more in detail.

Thanks!

Leo

Click to read more...

 

[DavidBL]

Yup! And he’s looking mighty fine as well doing it. I’m shocked on how good the goalies are this year. When we brought up Dostal? Everyone couldn’t stop talking about em in the Nachos line at Honda center.

The NHL goalies? Really have improved over the years. It’s not like a few years ago when it was Price, Luongo, Goalie from Boston who had the Hasek mask. I forgot his name. But you get where I am going at

This entire NHL has solid goaltending

Tim Thomas?

 

[JlindiesANA]

Tim Thomas?

Bruins goalie at one point

 

[TheGoodShepard1]

Columbus is in Tampa tomorrow night, but the main event for the evening is Sharks-Coyotes in Tempe. A 3-point outcome from that game would be ideal.

No 3-point game, but the Sharks win 4-2, which is still a positive outcome. Gives them a 3 point buffer of separation over Arizona for 5th, and now they're 1 point behind Montreal in 6th and 3 points behind Vancouver for 7th. Anything that keeps them not only with longer odds for Bedard but out of the race for the big 4 entirely is necessary (especially because given their track record, I could see them being one of the main teams who aggressively pursues Michkov if he starts sliding down the board).

 

[JlindiesANA]

No 3-point game, but the Sharks win 4-2, which is still a positive outcome. Now gives them a 3 point buffer of separation over Arizona for 5th, and now they're 1 point behind Montreal in 6th and 3 points behind Vancouver for 7th. Anything that keeps them not only with longer odds for Bedard but out of the race for the big 4 entirely is necessary (especially because given their track record, I could see them being one of the main teams who aggressively pursues Michkov if he starts sliding down the board).

Agreed whole heartedly,

Sharks winning over Phoenix actually helps us. I believe the goals over one another gives us better standings

OT: I will bet my bottom dollar the Samuelies will spend every last dime on a competitive roster if Anaheim lands Bedard. The Anaheim Ducks use to always spend to the cap during the Niedermayer and Pronger days.

Wouldn’t be shocked of an entire turn of events if Bedard comes here.

 

[Sean Garrity]

Yup! And he’s looking mighty fine as well doing it. I’m shocked on how good the goalies are this year. When we brought up Dostal? Everyone couldn’t stop talking about em in the Nachos line at Honda center.

The NHL goalies? Really have improved over the years. It’s not like a few years ago when it was Price, Luongo, Goalie from Boston who had the Hasek mask. I forgot his name. But you get where I am going at

This entire NHL has solid goaltending

I would say the entire NHL has mediocre goaltending, hence the deployment of more split systems. How many elite goaltenders are there nowadays?

Agreed whole heartedly,

Sharks winning over Phoenix actually helps us. Phoenix has more points than Sharks at the moment.

I will bet my bottom dollar the Samuelies will spend every last dime on a competitive roster of Anaheim lands Bedard. The Anaheim Ducks use to always spend to the cap during the Niedermayer and Pronger days.

Wouldn’t be shocked if an entire turn of events if Bedard comes here.

They spent the money when they had a realistic shot at the cup, that won’t be the case if they get Bedard next year, but likely will within his tenure. There are significant holes on defense, we have no top pairing, no prospect in the system on the verge of entering those spots and those type of players don’t typically hit free agency nor are required via trade.

 

[JlindiesANA]

I would say the entire NHL has mediocre goaltending, hence the deployment of more split systems. How many elite goaltenders are there nowadays?



They spent the money when they had a realistic shot at the cup, that won’t be the case if they get Bedard next year, but likely will within his tenure. There are significant holes on defense, we have no top pairing, no prospect in the system on the verge of entering those spots and those type of players don’t typically hit free agency nor are required via trade.

May do the trades as well.

You have Gostisbehere available this summer. And Pastrnak. The ducks do have options if they want to spend. You also have your Zellweger and Hinds for the third pairings.

All I’m saying is that Anaheim does have numerous options if they land the trophy of Bedard. The Samuelies has money, and they are scared to spend it like so many hockey fans say on social media. I know it isn’t here, but that’s the rumors on Twitter and Facebook. That Anaheim doesn’t like spending money and we’re a cheap skate.

We aren’t…. We’ve spent money numerous times over the years.

Tangent I know? Sorry, but it’s frustrating

 

[Hockey Duckie]

May do the trades as well.

You have Gostisbehere available this summer. And Pastrnak. The ducks do have options if they want to spend. You also have your Zellweger and Hinds for the third pairings.

All I’m saying is that Anaheim does have numerous options if they land the trophy of Bedard. The Samuelies has money, and they are scared to spend it like so many hockey fans say on social media. I know it isn’t here, but that’s the rumors on Twitter and Facebook. That Anaheim doesn’t like spending money and we’re a cheap skate.

We aren’t…. We’ve spent money numerous times over the years.

Tangent I know? Sorry, but it’s frustrating

Getting Bedard doesn't ring "urgency".

Bedard will have to learn to adapt to the NHL game as an 18-year old. He's an offensive dynamo, but he also likes to cheat when playing defense. We have no idea how well or how fast/slow Bedard will adapt.

Then we look at our blue line. Assume we'll lose three starters in RD Klingberg, LD Kulikov, and RD Shattenkirk. Drysdale lost a whole season of development. There's going to be far too many unknowns on the blue line. Adding one veteran defenseman isn't enough. If you add three veteran defense, then you wonder if you'll be blocking the youth movement for the next 3-5 years (I assume you want to be playoff bound for more than one season, which means you'll be signing veteran players on multi-year contracts).

We still don't know what we have for defense on our blueline b/c the NHL is a totally different and difficult league.

AHL

RD Andersson (good, but too injury prone)​

RD Helleson (meh)​

NCAA

LD/RD LaCombe (senior, signing?)​

LD Thrun (junior as per capfriendly, signing?)​

RD Moore (sophmore)​

CHL

LD/RD Zell (AHL bound next year)​

LD Hinds (AHL bound next year)​

LD Mintyukov (should be AHL bound next year)​

RD Warren (should stay in CHL)​

RD Luneau (should stay in CHL)​

Looking at our D group, we don't have #1D. I see a lot of 2nd pairing D and that could be how things play out by having three sets of 2nd pairing D.

We are just too young and full of unknowns to justify spending a lot cash or assets next season. If we don't find good defensmen, then we'll have a decade of futility like the Oil regardless of our top young guns.

 

[JlindiesANA]

Getting Bedard doesn't ring "urgency".

Bedard will have to learn to adapt to the NHL game as an 18-year old. He's an offensive dynamo, but he also likes to cheat when playing defense. We have no idea how well or how fast/slow Bedard will adapt.

Then we look at our blue line. Assume we'll lose three starters in RD Klingberg, LD Kulikov, and RD Shattenkirk. Drysdale lost a whole season of development. There's going to be far too many unknowns on the blue line. Adding one veteran defenseman isn't enough. If you add three veteran defense, then you wonder if you'll be blocking the youth movement for the next 3-5 years (I assume you want to be playoff bound for more than one season, which means you'll be signing veteran players on multi-year contracts).

We still don't know what we have for defense on our blueline b/c the NHL is a totally different and difficult league.

AHL

RD Andersson (good, but too injury prone)​

RD Helleson (meh)​

NCAA

LD/RD LaCombe (senior, signing?)​

LD Thrun (junior as per capfriendly, signing?)​

RD Moore (sophmore)​

CHL

LD/RD Zell (AHL bound next year)​

LD Hinds (AHL bound next year)​

LD Mintyukov (should be AHL bound next year)​

RD Warren (should stay in CHL)​

RD Luneau (should stay in CHL)​

Looking at our D group, we don't have #1D. I see a lot of 2nd pairing D and that could be how things play out by having three sets of 2nd pairing D.

We are just too young and full of unknowns to justify spending a lot cash or assets next season. If we don't find good defensmen, then we'll have a decade of futility like the Oil regardless of our top young guns.

Good points all around. Sure we may not have a Karlsson or Marner. But we do have Cam Fowler who’s on a nice number 1 for us.

He’s here for the longevity with the future, could Anaheim build around him? Or is Anaheim wanting to scrap it all and just build an entirely new team

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Good points all around. Sure we may not have a Karlsson or Marner. But we do have Cam Fowler who’s on a nice number 1 for us.

He’s here for the longevity with the future, could Anaheim build around him? Or is Anaheim wanting to scrap it all and just build an entirely new team

Cam is our #1D, but his actual placement is a 2nd pairing offensive D. He's most effect when paired with a defensive D b/c Cam's game is a finesse game. Shattenkirk is a better physical defender than Cam.

Cam isn't a player you build around. He's like Rico, a very good support player. For the future, it appears we are going to be building around OFD's Drysdale and Mintyukov. The dark horses are NCAA Ds LaCombe and Thrun. Hinds will be an important defensive D piece and he should be getting stronger when he adds more mass to his frame.

 

[JlindiesANA]

Cam is our #1D, but his actual placement is a 2nd pairing offensive D. He's most effect when paired with a defensive D b/c Cam's game is a finesse game. Shattenkirk is a better physical defender than Cam.

Cam isn't a player you build around. He's like Rico, a very good support player. For the future, it appears we are going to be building around OFD's Drysdale and Mintyukov. The dark horses are NCAA Ds LaCombe and Thrun. Hinds will be an important defensive D piece and he should be getting stronger when he adds more mass to his frame.

So what are we doing with all these D prospects. We also have Warren waiting in the wings as well. Same with Luneau….. could we possibly trade Fowler before his contract is up once these prospects make the jump?

Where do you see Fowler going over the next few years. He’s still signed here.

His salary jumps to 7.5 million next year also from 4.75 this year.

 

[DavidBL]

So what are we doing with all these D prospects. We also have Warren waiting in the wings as well. Same with Luneau….. could we possibly trade Fowler before his contract is up once these prospects make the jump?

Where do you see Fowler going over the next few years. He’s still signed here.

His salary jumps to 7.5 million next year also from 4.75 this year.

Those prospects have a lot to prove in 3 years to justify moving Fowler.

 

[Sean Garrity]

May do the trades as well.

You have Gostisbehere available this summer. And Pastrnak. The ducks do have options if they want to spend. You also have your Zellweger and Hinds for the third pairings.

All I’m saying is that Anaheim does have numerous options if they land the trophy of Bedard. The Samuelies has money, and they are scared to spend it like so many hockey fans say on social media. I know it isn’t here, but that’s the rumors on Twitter and Facebook. That Anaheim doesn’t like spending money and we’re a cheap skate.

We aren’t…. We’ve spent money numerous times over the years.

Tangent I know? Sorry, but it’s frustrating

Good points all around. Sure we may not have a Karlsson or Marner. But we do have Cam Fowler who’s on a nice number 1 for us.

He’s here for the longevity with the future, could Anaheim build around him? Or is Anaheim wanting to scrap it all and just build an entirely new team

So what are we doing with all these D prospects. We also have Warren waiting in the wings as well. Same with Luneau….. could we possibly trade Fowler before his contract is up once these prospects make the jump?

Where do you see Fowler going over the next few years. He’s still signed here.

His salary jumps to 7.5 million next year also from 4.75 this year.

I like your enthusiasm, but Ghost isn’t a top pairing defenseman and neither is Fowler on a contender. The prospects who may project as potential top pairing guys are at a minimum 2-3 years away. Bedard doesn’t change any significant projection of this team in the next 2-3 years.

 

[TheGoodShepard1]

Light schedule tonight in the NHL, but for tank implications, the Sharks are in LA on the second night of a B2B. Let’s see if they can get some points and potentially move out of the top 5 with a win

 

[Hockey Duckie]

So what are we doing with all these D prospects. We also have Warren waiting in the wings as well. Same with Luneau….. could we possibly trade Fowler before his contract is up once these prospects make the jump?

Where do you see Fowler going over the next few years. He’s still signed here.

His salary jumps to 7.5 million next year also from 4.75 this year.

Fowler stays for the remainder of his contract. Although Cam's salary differs from the cap hit (AAV), it's the AAV that matters with cap situations. We need veterans on the NHL roster and not put several rookies on the blue line because that will lead to obvious disaster.

The org can take their time developing D-men. Look at Drysdale, this is his third year and he's sidelined for the whole season. We can slowly bring prospects up to the NHL when they are ready. When I say the NCAA guys are dark horses is because they are four years removed from their draft year while being in a program aimed at building their bodies and focus on playing defense.

GM Verbeek made a critique that both Mintyukov and Zellweger have to learn how to play defense because what they can get away with at the CHL level is not possible in the NHL. We don't know how long that will take for both players.

Moore, Luneau, and Warren will stay in their respective leagues next year and then move to the AHL to continue development.

Right now, we know Andersson is our most known and best defensive prospect who can thrive against men. His problem is that he's made out of glass, which really doesn't help the NHL club.

With prospects, we cannot expect them to make the jump to the NHL quickly. We are spoiled when Zegras, Drysdale, and McTavish made the NHL jump so quickly in their young NHL careers.

 

[DuckDuckGetz]

My new theory: Pat is keeping Eakins on for as long as possible to ensure that no other NHL team will ever hire him and he’ll be forced to take the San Diego job again

 

[JlindiesANA]

I like your enthusiasm, but Ghost isn’t a top pairing defenseman and neither is Fowler on a contender. The prospects who may project as potential top pairing guys are at a minimum 2-3 years away. Bedard doesn’t change any significant projection of this team in the next 2-3 years.

I’m trying to find some type of hope for the next few seasons. This year has been very rough being a fan

 

[Hockey Duckie]

I’m trying to find some type of hope for the next few seasons. This year has been very rough being a fan

I would focus on the AHL Gulls if you're looking for hope b/c there should be a slew of prospects heading to the Gulls.

LD/RD LaCombe (Possible NHL)​

LD Thrun (Possible NHL)​

LD/RD Zellweger​

LD Hinds​

LD Minty​

C Gaucher​

RW Pastujov​

G Alexander​

At the NHL level, we should be looking at improvements with RW Terry, C Z, C McTavish, RD Drysdale, and C Lundy. We need at least two of the three C's to take another step forward in development.

 

[Terry Yake]

flyers win again and are now 13 pts ahead of the ducks with the same amount of games played. if they keep winning regularly it'll be safe to cross them off the list of teams to keep an eye on

sharks unfortunately lost and remain 6 pts ahead of the ducks

 

[JlindiesANA]

I would focus on the AHL Gulls if you're looking for hope b/c there should be a slew of prospects heading to the Gulls.

LD/RD LaCombe (Possible NHL)​

LD Thrun (Possible NHL)​

LD/RD Zellweger​

LD Hinds​

LD Minty​

C Gaucher​

RW Pastujov​

G Alexander​

At the NHL level, we should be looking at improvements with RW Terry, C Z, C McTavish, RD Drysdale, and C Lundy. We need at least two of the three C's to take another step forward in development.

Are we automatically including Bedard, Fantili, Carlsson? Or are they staying down in your opinion when we draft.

 

[JlindiesANA]

flyers win again and are now 13 pts ahead of the ducks with the same amount of games played. if they keep winning regularly it'll be safe to cross them off the list of teams to keep an eye on

sharks unfortunately lost and remain 6 pts ahead of the ducks

4 pts between Chicago and Anaheim as well for the last spot. And two points difference with CBJ.

I still think Anaheim will take last place. Their schedule is brutal…. And I’ll double down on it

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Are we automatically including Bedard, Fantili, Carlsson? Or are they staying down in your opinion when we draft.

Good question. Here's my opinion...

=== Bedard ===

If we land Bedard, then he makes the jump to the NHL next year. There is nothing left for Bedard to prove at the CHL level. The bonus here is that Bedard already has chemistry with McTavish as they've been a duo at the WJC-18 and WJC-20 (cancelled and summer editions). It'll also balance out the top two lines, and reconnect Z with Terry.

Potential top two lines in 2023-24

Rico-McTavish-Bedard​

Z-Strome-Terry​

=== Fantilli and Carlsson ===

If we land Fantilli or Carlsson, then I expect them to play another year in their respective leagues before they come over. Fantilli can follow the Michigan group before him in playing an extra season in the NCAA before joining their respective NHL clubs in D Power, C Beniers, LW Johnson. D Hughes is probably doing the same thing after this season ends for Michigan. The extra year in college will help Fantilli grow physically, which is needed if you're to survive at the NHL level as a center. The NCAA usually plays on weekends to allow its players to have a set schedule for body building and resting.

As for Carlsson, let him continue to develop at the SHL. The SHL is better than the AHL. Since Carlsson is on a competitive SHL team, Orebro, then it's best to let Carlsson develop in a winning environment in a higher level than the AHL than be a part of a chaotic rebuild team like the Ducks in 2023-24.

 

[JlindiesANA]

Good question. Here's my opinion...

=== Bedard ===

If we land Bedard, then he makes the jump to the NHL next year. There is nothing left for Bedard to prove at the CHL level. The bonus here is that Bedard already has chemistry with McTavish as they've been a duo at the WJC-18 and WJC-20 (cancelled and summer editions). It'll also balance out the top two lines, and reconnect Z with Terry.

Potential top two lines in 2023-24

Rico-McTavish-Bedard​

Z-Strome-Terry​

=== Fantilli and Carlsson ===

If we land Fantilli or Carlsson, then I expect them to play another year in their respective leagues before they come over. Fantilli can follow the Michigan group before him in playing an extra season in the NCAA before joining their respective NHL clubs in D Power, C Beniers, LW Johnson. D Hughes is probably doing the same thing after this season ends for Michigan. The extra year in college will help Fantilli grow physically, which is needed if you're to survive at the NHL level as a center. The NCAA usually plays on weekends to allow its players to have a set schedule for body building and resting.

As for Carlsson, let him continue to develop at the SHL. The SHL is better than the AHL. Since Carlsson is on a competitive SHL team, Orebro, then it's best to let Carlsson develop in a winning environment in a higher level than the AHL than be a part of a chaotic rebuild team like the Ducks in 2023-24.

Thanks for explaining it all. You write so thoroughly detailed it’s pretty remarkable.

Follow up question? What are we doing with all this money in the off season. We are third in the league with cap space already. We have Shattenkirk 3.9 million off the books, Klingberg 7 million, Stolarz money and Kulikov 2.25 million.

I mean that’s like a dream come true for a new GM. Are we signing anyone? Where do we go from here. That’s a boatload of cash available

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

Thanks for explaining it all. You write so thoroughly detailed it’s pretty remarkable.

Follow up question? What are we doing with all this money in the off season. We are third in the league with cap space already. We have Shattenkirk 3.9 million off the books, Klingberg 7 million, Stolarz money and Kulikov 2.25 million.

I mean that’s like a dream come true for a new GM. Are we signing anyone? Where do we go from here. That’s a boatload of cash available

Qe sign terry and zegras to new contracts. First and foremost

 

[JlindiesANA]

Qe sign terry and zegras to new contracts. First and foremost

Yah it’s not going to be that bad. We got I think 13.9 million available. And 12+ million off the books this off season.

This team is absolutely loaded with cash to spend. I don’t know what we are going to do with it all.

Verbeek has the easiest job in the entire league with basically 26 million dollars to use this off season. Any GM would love to have that luxury

 

[CrazyDuck4u]

Yah it’s not going to be that bad. We got I think 13.9 million available. And 12+ million off the books this off season.

This team is absolutely loaded with cash to spend. I don’t know what we are going to do with it all.

Verbeek has the easiest job in the entire league with basically 26 million dollars to use this off season. Any GM would love to have that luxury

I really think he signs a well known forward.. He might throw money at Pask..