Transfer: 2023 Summer Transfer Rumors and Discussion - Closed Window Edition

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maclean

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Gundo's a great get for Arsenal. Not as physical as Xhaka but quicker, smarter, and more technical.

Gundogan would be huge, but considering the competition I'll keep from getting too excited until it's on paper
 

Duchene2MacKinnon

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Well plenty of players slipped after the WC, and many of those didn’t make the Final. The top two young talents on this forum saw their numbers essentially fall off a cliff though I didn’t see anyone post about it.
Who’s this?

In any case, don’t think has over stated Kounde’s decline in play. I think it’s a safe bet he doesn’t like playing there and it’s effecting his play. He hasn’t been trash, just not his usual elite self.
 

cgf

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Gundogan would be huge, but considering the competition I'll keep from getting too excited until it's on paper

The german reports make it sound like your favorites for him and it's been a while since we heard anything about the Barca interest.

Who’s this?

In any case, don’t think has over stated Kounde’s decline in play. I think it’s a safe bet he doesn’t like playing there and it’s effecting his play. He hasn’t been trash, just not his usual elite self.

Musiala & Bellingham's production has dropped off...although Bellingham's 3 goals in his last 2 matches may have bumped him back up around where he was pre-WM. And with Musiala it was the coaching change that really exacerbated it.

He was a little less fresh after the WM under Nagelsmann, but under Tuchel he's really been diminished in favor of the vets and hasn't scored a goal since Nagelsmann was fired.
 
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maclean

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The german reports make it sound like your favorites for him and it's been a while since we heard anything about the Barca interest.

Oh believe me I read the reports every day about what a shoe-in we are. The emotional struggle is real :laugh: But the window doesn't open for over three weeks, that is an ETERNITY
 
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S E P H

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I still think his wages keep that from happening, and I’m fine with that.
You think Arsenal is going to outcompete Barca for wages? I can't see Arsenal overpaying, especially considering they destroyed themselves with the wage structure when the previous regime implemented crazy numbers for the likes of Aube, Sokaratis, Kolasinac, etc.
 

maclean

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You think Arsenal is going to outcompete Barca for wages? I can't see Arsenal overpaying, especially considering they destroyed themselves with the wage structure when the previous regime implemented crazy numbers for the likes of Aube, Sokaratis, Kolasinac, etc.

Barcelona is in a bit of a pickle for wages right now and there's a distinct possibility that Gundogan can be had on a free so it's not entirely out of the question, but I would hardly focus on that, any edge we have is in Arteta and I don't know, maybe his family's happy in England (as hard as that is to imagine)
 
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les Habs

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Hopefully Barca conclude transfer busy quickly, especially any player sales. We need to get the finances in order just get the new contracts for some current players within the budget. Then after that I’d say we’ll see.
 

S E P H

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Arsenal linked to a bunch of players today and yesterday (Besides Rice/Caicedo/Gundogan)

- Raheem Sterling, LW
- Xavi Simons, CAM (PSV)
- Ansu Fati, LW
- Ferland Mendy, LB
- Sacha Boey, RB (Galatasaray)
- Mohamed Simakan, CB (Leipzig)
- Martin Zubimendi, CDM (Real Sociedad)
- Ruben Neves, CDM
- Moussa Diaby, RW (another link)
- Wilfried Zaha, LW (too lazy, I can't see Arteta wanting him)
- Mohammed Kudus, ST (Ajax)

Departures
- Martin Odegaard to Bayern
- Reiss Nelson to West Ham, Fulham, Brighton, or AC Milan
- Granit Xhaka to Leverkusen
- Keiran Tierney to Newcastle United
- Florian Balogun to AC Milan
 

robertmac43

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Mar 31, 2015
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Departures
- Martin Odegaard to Bayern
- Reiss Nelson to West Ham, Fulham, Brighton, or AC Milan
- Granit Xhaka to Leverkusen
- Keiran Tierney to Newcastle United
- Florian Balogun to AC Milan
Outside of Odegaard I could see any of these happening.
 

maclean

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Yeah, no way Odegaard goes. Without him we may as well sell everyone and do an NHL-stlye rebuild
 

S E P H

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Outside of Odegaard I could see any of these happening.
I didn't include the rumour about Joao Cancedo joining us because I am not sure how that is possible lol. I would figure that Odegaard would be in the same level of hilarity as well, he's rumoured to PSG and Barca as well, but I can't see any of that happening...well not yet anyway.

I would not want to lose Nelson and Balogun in the same window, especially with Patino and Nwaneri also potentially being rumoured out.
 
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bluesfan94

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I didn't include the rumour about Joao Cancedo joining us because I am not sure how that is possible lol. I would figure that Odegaard would be in the same level of hilarity as well, he's rumoured to PSG and Barca as well, but I can't see any of that happening...well not yet anyway.

I would not want to lose Nelson and Balogun in the same window, especially with Patino and Nwaneri also potentially being rumoured out.
Why? Combined, they played 11 matches for us this season.
 

S E P H

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Why? Combined, they played 11 matches for us this season.
That's a ton of youth talent leaving and a reduction of potential homegrown players. You keep making this same argument that losing youth has zero impact and that's just not true. Saka, Nelson, Iwobi, ESR, and Willock all came from the youth academy (Szczesny/Fabregas in the past). I don't care about losing any of these players, but I want to hold onto them, gain a solid fee, and then let go on their way if they want to leave or if there is no spot on them.

If Saka ever wanted to leave, he would make Arsenal a cool 100 million pounds. The point is if we allowed Saka to leave when he was 19 years old for 30 million, then Arsenal as a business would be rubbish since they would've lost 70 million just a couple of seasons later. You can't keep making Gnarby mistakes if you want to be a big club and sell him for 8 million and three seasons later he becomes a 50 million player. Iwobi and Willock got Arsenal smooth fees and Nelson (if he does leave) will be another one. Patino and Nwaneri are the other two that can eventually bring the Arsenal another 40 to 50 million if they develop to what we think their talent level is at. It's all about cycling and losing them when they're 18-22 years old means we are developing them for other teams and losing 90% of what they can eventually be. That money can then be reinvested into players that can help win now, but constantly losing players like Aaron Ramsey on frees or Gnarby is horrible for a sport that requires as much money as this one now does.

The other situation is if transfer targets like Kudus and Diaby are even better than Balogun at this point? The former two will require much higher wages than Floran or any other youth player. Balogun isn't really all that different from Kudus and you can say is the better player. Promise him playing time and get rid of Nketiah (be ruthless, don't sell better players). Folarin just had 20 goals in 35 game campaign.
 

phisherman

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Apr 17, 2015
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That's a ton of youth talent leaving and a reduction of potential homegrown players. You keep making this same argument that losing youth has zero impact and that's just not true. Saka, Nelson, Iwobi, ESR, and Willock all came from the youth academy (Szczesny/Fabregas in the past). I don't care about losing any of these players, but I want to hold onto them, gain a solid fee, and then let go on their way if they want to leave or if there is no spot on them.

If Saka ever wanted to leave, he would make Arsenal a cool 100 million pounds. The point is if we allowed Saka to leave when he was 19 years old for 30 million, then Arsenal as a business would be rubbish since they would've lost 70 million just a couple of seasons later. You can't keep making Gnarby mistakes if you want to be a big club and sell him for 8 million and three seasons later he becomes a 50 million player. Iwobi and Willock got Arsenal smooth fees and Nelson (if he does leave) will be another one. Patino and Nwaneri are the other two that can eventually bring the Arsenal another 40 to 50 million if they develop to what we think their talent level is at. It's all about cycling and losing them when they're 18-22 years old means we are developing them for other teams and losing 90% of what they can eventually be. That money can then be reinvested into players that can help win now, but constantly losing players like Aaron Ramsey on frees or Gnarby is horrible for a sport that requires as much money as this one now does.

The other situation is if transfer targets like Kudus and Diaby are even better than Balogun at this point? The former two will require much higher wages than Floran or any other youth player. Balogun isn't really all that different from Kudus and you can say is the better player. Promise him playing time and get rid of Nketiah (be ruthless, don't sell better players). Folarin just had 20 goals in 35 game campaign.
Nelson would be on a free.

And if Patino and Nwaneri want to leave there's nothing to stop them. Just have to hope that they tack on a big sell on clause for Patino.

With Arsenal's academy producing more good youth and Arsenal being in a title contender situation it's going to be more difficult to keep a hold of any youth player that wants immediate first team football. Will probably have more Musah situations than Iwobi/Willock ones unless they are really special.
 
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bluesfan94

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That's a ton of youth talent leaving and a reduction of potential homegrown players. You keep making this same argument that losing youth has zero impact and that's just not true. Saka, Nelson, Iwobi, ESR, and Willock all came from the youth academy (Szczesny/Fabregas in the past). I don't care about losing any of these players, but I want to hold onto them, gain a solid fee, and then let go on their way if they want to leave or if there is no spot on them.
I'm not saying it has zero impact. I'm saying that you can't just keep youth. The bolded is exactly what is happening. We've held onto Nelson. There's no spot for him other than 5th winger, maybe. He wants to go somewhere he'll play. We can get a solid fee for him. He'd otherwise leave on a free. Balogun is at peak value. He doesn't want to be a backup or go out on loan. Okay, get a good fee for him. They did this with Willock, too. Nwaneri can leave on a free, I believe, so not much you can do there. Patino has said he doesn't want to go out on loan and he's frankly not good enough to be playing often for the senior team.
If Saka ever wanted to leave, he would make Arsenal a cool 100 million pounds. The point is if we allowed Saka to leave when he was 19 years old for 30 million, then Arsenal as a business would be rubbish since they would've lost 70 million just a couple of seasons later. You can't keep making Gnarby mistakes if you want to be a big club and sell him for 8 million and three seasons later he becomes a 50 million player.
Sure. Which is why you structure deals to have sell on clauses and/or buy backs. On the other hand, there's no guarantee a player continues to improve just because you keep him. That's video game thinking. For example, keeping Balogun as the backup striker won't increase his value. It'll decrease it. Not to mention contract status.
Patino and Nwaneri are the other two that can eventually bring the Arsenal another 40 to 50 million if they develop to what we think their talent level is at. It's all about cycling and losing them when they're 18-22 years old means we are developing them for other teams and losing 90% of what they can eventually be.
Right, but you can't force them to stay, either. Plus, for every 18-22 year old who makes it based on their talent level, there are three that don't. Look at Azeez, or Flores, or Zelalem, or JRA, or Akpom, or Afobe
That money can then be reinvested into players that can help win now, but constantly losing players like Aaron Ramsey on frees or Gnarby is horrible for a sport that requires as much money as this one now does.
Ramsey left on a free because he was oft-injured and past it. That's completely different than anything else you're talking about here. Gnabry and Bennacer are the examples. Wilshere is the counter example. The four players you've mentioned played 11 games total for Arsenal. Next season they wouldn't be starters or, other than possibly Balogun, the main backup. Sell them, get a good fee and sell-on percentage, use the money. There are more Hale End products coming through. Butler-Oyedeji, Lewis-Skelley, Walters, etc. There are plenty of Hale End products still in the squad. Saka, Nketiah, ESR.
The other situation is if transfer targets like Kudus and Diaby are even better than Balogun at this point? The former two will require much higher wages than Floran or any other youth player. Balogun isn't really all that different from Kudus and you can say is the better player. Promise him playing time and get rid of Nketiah (be ruthless, don't sell better players). Folarin just had 20 goals in 35 game campaign.
Just to be clear, you're not okay with selling Balogun because he's a Hale End product but you're okay with selling Nketiah? Make it make sense. Balogun put up 14 non-penalty goals in a league where Lacazette, who clearly wasn't good enough, has 26. I like Balogun a lot. But he doesn't have the versatility of Kudus, plays a different position than Diaby, and doesn't want to be a backup. So sell him and get good money.
 

S E P H

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Nelson would be on a free.

And if Patino and Nwaneri want to leave there's nothing to stop them. Just have to hope that they tack on a big sell on clause for Patino.

With Arsenal's academy producing more good youth and Arsenal being in a title contender situation it's going to be more difficult to keep a hold of any youth player that wants immediate first team football. Will probably have more Musah situations than Iwobi/Willock ones unless they are really special.
Shoot, didn't miss that we might lose Nelson on a free. Again, I am totally fine with losing them, but you can't keep losing them on small deals. The problem is that those sell-on clauses will likely reduce some teams' willingness to accept the deal. Like if you sell Patino for 18 million and then ask for a 40% sell-on clause, a team might laugh at you. A buy-back clause is probably more likely, but then you have to negotiate a fee with a club to what both parties think he is worth some years down the line. The other problem and what we saw from Gnarby is that there is way less chance of a player being sold again if you're selling him to PSG, Barca, Bayern, City, or anybody else. We can put all the 60% sold clause as we want if we sell Nwaneri to City, but if he develops into a player we all think he can become, there is no chance he'd want to leave until he's past his prime.
 

bluesfan94

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Nelson would be on a free.

And if Patino and Nwaneri want to leave there's nothing to stop them. Just have to hope that they tack on a big sell on clause for Patino.

With Arsenal's academy producing more good youth and Arsenal being in a title contender situation it's going to be more difficult to keep a hold of any youth player that wants immediate first team football. Will probably have more Musah situations than Iwobi/Willock ones unless they are really special.
I thought Nelson had an option year left for next season, but if not, even more to my point.

Top talent only breaks through at elite clubs if they're truly elite. The example is City. Basically the only youth player they've brought through recently is Foden. Sure, Rico Lewis has played a bit, but he's hardly a starter. They lost players like Sancho, Lavia, Nmecha, etc. This is a good sign (and I know you're not disagreeing)

Shoot, didn't miss that we might lose Nelson on a free. Again, I am totally fine with losing them, but you can't keep losing them on small deals. The problem is that those sell-on clauses will likely reduce some teams' willingness to accept the deal. Like if you sell Patino for 18 million and then ask for a 40% sell-on clause, a team might laugh at you. A buy-back clause is probably more likely, but then you have to negotiate a fee with a club to what both parties think he is worth some years down the line. The other problem and what we saw from Gnarby is that there is way less chance of a player being sold again if you're selling him to PSG, Barca, Bayern, City, or anybody else. We can put all the 60% sold clause as we want if we sell Nwaneri to City, but if he develops into a player we all think he can become, there is no chance he'd want to leave until he's past his prime.
We sold Gnabry to Werder Bremen after Gnabry rejected a contract offer because he wanted to play more. We also won't be selling Nwaneri at all, as he hasn't signed a professional contract. We've offered him one, but money talks. Also, Patino isn't being sold to a PSG/Barca/etc. Patino will likely be sold to a mid-to-lower table team in England or Spain. Balogun going to AC Milan definitely doesn't mean he won't be sold.
 
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S E P H

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Sure. Which is why you structure deals to have sell on clauses and/or buy backs. On the other hand, there's no guarantee a player continues to improve just because you keep him. That's video game thinking. For example, keeping Balogun as the backup striker won't increase his value. It'll decrease it. Not to mention contract status.
Right, but you can't force them to stay, either. Plus, for every 18-22 year old who makes it based on their talent level, there are three that don't. Look at Azeez, or Flores, or Zelalem, or JRA, or Akpom, or Afobe
I keep mentioning these four because these are the highest potential of any in our systems (and four we might lose in one window). We had John-Jules who also had supreme talent, but it seems he hasn't really developed all too well since then and why I haven't ever mentioned him. Arsenal also have Ibrahim and M'Hand who are known as being very talented as well but are probably less likely to reach their potential (which is why I haven't mentioned them). I've been very narrow in players I keep noting and that is for good reason (which you alluded to, many don't ever develop). I don't think it is "video game thinking" to say that those four have great potential and a good chance to become EPL-level players. Do I think Nwaneri can develop into an SMS-level talent? Yes, but I also believe there is a chance he becomes as impactful as Solly March as well.

Don't think because I don't want to lose them - all of them at one time - is because I believe all of them will become 70 million players. Highly likely that is not the case, but I want to keep the Arsenal's business model alive and well to refund fees towards other players. I do want to note though that it is always better to keep the better player, we surely got a solid fund for Fabregas (which was around 34 million Euros), but Arsenal then bought players of AOC, Arteta, Gervinho, BFG, Andre Santos, Chu-young Park, and Joel Campell (got Yossi Benayoun on loan). The best of the bunch was Arteta and BFG, but did sell high on AOC for around 40 million Euros years later. None of them really had the same impact as Fabregas did (Benayoun was supremely underrated though) and that deal set Arsenal back big time.
Just to be clear, you're not okay with selling Balogun because he's a Hale End product but you're okay with selling Nketiah? Make it make sense. Balogun put up 14 non-penalty goals in a league where Lacazette, who clearly wasn't good enough, has 26. I like Balogun a lot. But he doesn't have the versatility of Kudus, plays a different position than Diaby, and doesn't want to be a backup. So sell him and get good money.
I totally agree that both of them have different impacts, I never meant to say that Kulus is a bad player because that is far from the case. But what does he bring that Jesus doesn't? Both play a similar way and why Arsenal is linked with him, however, in terms of strikers I am a big believer that you gotta have different strengths for #9. Get a Firmino False 9 type of bloke, but be able to have a poacher on the bench for games when Roberto tactics aren't working. Balogun provides something unique that Gabriel nor Eddie possesses. Plus as I mentioned before Kulus is rumoured to want 250K wages, while Balogun is on 80k. Again I am fine with selling Balogun and Nelson, but it seems we might lose a ton of talent this season besides just them which includes players that can replace Nelson and ESR like Patino and Nwaneri.
 

phisherman

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I keep mentioning these four because these are the highest potential of any in our systems (and four we might lose in one window). We had John-Jules who also had supreme talent, but it seems he hasn't really developed all too well since then and why I haven't ever mentioned him. Arsenal also have Ibrahim and M'Hand who are known as being very talented as well but are probably less likely to reach their potential (which is why I haven't mentioned them). I've been very narrow in players I keep noting and that is for good reason (which you alluded to, many don't ever develop). I don't think it is "video game thinking" to say that those four have great potential and a good chance to become EPL-level players. Do I think Nwaneri can develop into an SMS-level talent? Yes, but I also believe there is a chance he becomes as impactful as Solly March as well.

Don't think because I don't want to lose them - all of them at one time - is because I believe all of them will become 70 million players. Highly likely that is not the case, but I want to keep the Arsenal's business model alive and well to refund fees towards other players. I do want to note though that it is always better to keep the better player, we surely got a solid fund for Fabregas (which was around 34 million Euros), but Arsenal then bought players of AOC, Arteta, Gervinho, BFG, Andre Santos, Chu-young Park, and Joel Campell (got Yossi Benayoun on loan). The best of the bunch was Arteta and BFG, but did sell high on AOC for around 40 million Euros. None of them really had the same impact as Fabregas did (Benayoun was supremely underrated though) and that deal set Arsenal back big time.

I totally agree that both of them have different impacts, I never meant to say that Kulus is a bad player because that is far from the case. But what does he bring that Jesus doesn't? Both play a similar impact and why Arsenal is linked with him, however, in terms of strikers I am a big believer that you gotta have different strengths for #9. Get a Firmino False 9 type of bloke, but be able to have a poacher on the bench for games when Roberto tactics aren't working. Balogun provides something unique that Gabriel nor Eddie possesses. Plus as I mentioned before Kulus is rumoured to want 250K wages, while Balogun is on 80k. Again I am fine with selling Balogun and Nelson, but it seems we might lose a ton of talent this season besides just them which includes players that can replace Nelson and ESR like Patino and Nwaneri.
Balogun and Patino don't want to be loaned out again AND want to play every week. They can't do that with this current Arsenal team.

And you're assuming Arsenal will actually sign Kudus.
 

S E P H

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Balogun and Patino don't want to be loaned out again AND want to play every week. They can't do that with this current Arsenal team.

And you're assuming Arsenal will actually sign Kudus.
Well, I definitely want Kudus if Nelson and Balogun are gone. We've been linked with him for the past 2-3 windows so I think there is some smoke there. Though, I believe there are much better targets out there.

If that's the case concerning them, we gotta put buy-back clauses. It still sucks to potentially lose those two and another two on top of that. Arsenal bottled this season due to depth and all we're losing so far is just depth, cheap depth I might as well add.
 

bluesfan94

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I keep mentioning these four because these are the highest potential of any in our systems (and four we might lose in one window). We had John-Jules who also had supreme talent, but it seems he hasn't really developed all too well since then and why I haven't ever mentioned him. Arsenal also have Ibrahim and M'Hand who are known as being very talented as well but are probably less likely to reach their potential (which is why I haven't mentioned them). I've been very narrow in players I keep noting and that is for good reason (which you alluded to, many don't ever develop). I don't think it is "video game thinking" to say that those four have great potential and a good chance to become EPL-level players. Do I think Nwaneri can develop into an SMS-level talent? Yes, but I also believe there is a chance he becomes as impactful as Solly March as well.

Don't think because I don't want to lose them - all of them at one time - is because I believe all of them will become 70 million players. Highly likely that is not the case, but I want to keep the Arsenal's business model alive and well to refund fees towards other players. I do want to note though that it is always better to keep the better player, we surely got a solid fund for Fabregas (which was around 34 million Euros), but Arsenal then bought players of AOC, Arteta, Gervinho, BFG, Andre Santos, Chu-young Park, and Joel Campell (got Yossi Benayoun on loan). The best of the bunch was Arteta and BFG, but did sell high on AOC for around 40 million Euros years later. None of them really had the same impact as Fabregas did (Benayoun was supremely underrated though) and that deal set Arsenal back big time.
That's fair enough. I personally don't think Balogun will be a 70M player ever. Same with Nelson. Nelson is already 23, he's fairly one footed, and his highest goal output was years ago at Hoffenheim. Patino and Nwaneri certainly could. For what it's worth, I think Myles Lewis-Skelley is the gem of the Hale End, tbh. And I'm high on Cozier-Duberry. My point about video game thinking is assuming that you need to hold onto youth and that they'll necessarily improve.

The thing is that two are on frees, Nelson and Nwaneri. You can't really control that especially when you've made contract offers to both. Patino has said he wants to go. Balogun has hinted at it. I'm all for keeping starters, but I don't think that any of the four would be huge impact players. Balogun is really the only person who could have that. And Fabregas also wanted to leave.
I totally agree that both of them have different impacts, I never meant to say that Kulus is a bad player because that is far from the case. But what does he bring that Jesus doesn't?
Kudus is being brought in to cover for Jesus and Saka and maybe Odegaard too.

Basically, this is the two deep I foresee:

Martinelli - Jesus - Saka
Trossard - Nketiah - Kudus/Diaby

Rice-Odegaard-Caicedo
ESR-Vieira-Jorginho

Zinchenko-Gabriel-Saliba-White
Tomi-Kiwior-White-Fresneda

Ramsdale
Turner​

Then you have extras: Marquinhos, El Neny, Hein, Sambi
Outgoings: Patino, Nelson, Partey, Balogun, Xhaka, Tierney, Holding, Cedric, Mari, Runarsson, AMN, Pepe, Tavares, Trusty
Incomings: Kudus/Diaby, Rice, Caicedo, Fresneda.

Nelson, Trusty, and AMN are on frees.
 
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Evilo

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Balogun has scored the most goal by a first year player in L1 since... Zlatan.

Oh and to start some fun.... Ansu Fati is an HFBoards legend... too...
 
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les Habs

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Balogun has scored the most goal by a first year player in L1 since... Zlatan.

Oh and to start some fun.... Ansu Fati is an HFBoards legend... too...

Well yeah, but Fati also has had multiple major injury issues and nobody is talking him up since then.
 
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