Transfer: 2023 Summer Transfer Rumors and Discussion - Closed Window Edition

[les Habs]

You're right. It's like saying Pedri and Gavi should be available given that the context was Camavinga and Tchouameni. My bad - thanks for your correction!

No, it's not like that either. Even less so. Not sure why you can't comprehend what you're reading.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

You're right. It's like saying Pedri and Gavi should be available given that the context was Camavinga and Tchouameni. My bad - thanks for your correction!

Why would Pedri be available exactly?

 

[les Habs]

-Deco could replace Alemany as Barça's Sporting Director. Not sure what to think about that. One positive is that Deco has been scouting for us in recent years.
-Saw a rumor that Newcastle are interested in Raphinha at 80 million. I'd definitely sell him to make that profit and get his wages off the books.
-The club apparently wants to conclude transfer business before July 1st, but doubt that happens considering how last year went.

Why would Pedri be available exactly?

He's not, but either way don't ask.

 

[bluesfan94]

Why would Pedri be available exactly?

For the same reason Camavinga and Tchouameni would be. Wishful thinking.

No, it's not like that either. Even less so. Not sure why you can't comprehend what you're reading.

So your stance is that Barcelona wouldn't sell their young midfielders if they signed a new, young midfielder but Real Madrid would because reasons?

I'm glad you've provided so much substance to your argument.

If you think that Camavinga and Tchouameni might be available if Real Madrid sign Bellingham because RM also has Valverde (24), Modric (37), Kroos (33), and Ceballos (26), but Gavi and Pedri wouldn't be available if Barca signed Bellingham even though Barca has FdJ (25), Busquets (34), Roberto (31), and Kessie (30), then you're not actually thinking, you're feeling.

 

[Savant]

For the same reason Camavinga and Tchouameni would be. Wishful thinking.

So your stance is that Barcelona wouldn't sell their young midfielders if they signed a new, young midfielder but Real Madrid would because reasons?

I'm glad you've provided so much substance to your argument.

If you think that Camavinga and Tchouameni might be available if Real Madrid sign Bellingham because RM also has Valverde (24), Modric (37), Kroos (33), and Ceballos (26), but Gavi and Pedri wouldn't be available if Barca signed Bellingham even though Barca has FdJ (25), Busquets (34), Roberto (31), and Kessie (30), then you're not actually thinking, you're feeling.

First off, of course it’s wishful thinking. But again who thought Casemiro would be sold at this time last year? Sometimes you need to show some initiative. No one said this wasn’t wishful thinking, but stranger things have happened.

Pedri and Gavi are not competing with Kessie/Roberto/Busquets (and to a lesser extent FDJ) for spots; especially long term.

Camavinga, Tchouameni and Bellingham already have been brought in to replace Modric and Kroos. Valverde is already there. Camavinga is already having to play LB because there is no room for him and Madrid added another guy to put in front of him. No, Madrid do not have to sell, but Barca isn’t buying guys that are coming to potentially block Pedri and Gavi. That’s the difference. Madrid basically is going to be having four guys competing for three spots that all in the same age range and are all going to want minutes. And we know Camavinga doesn’t want to keep playing LB, mainly because Camavinga has said so. When Barca starts playing Pedri at fullback I’ll suggest putting in a bid for him too.

Basically the scenario is Camavinga doesn’t want to play LB, sees Jude come in which takes even more midfield minutes away from him. Maybe he is disgruntled. Madrid also still needs a forward and some defenders so maybe they want to cash in on a midfielder to help fund other areas; selling from a position of strength. Yes the easiest thing is for them to stand Pat, but again you don’t know unless you ask. This is not an equivalent situation to Barcelona though as you are suggesting. Barcelona does not have those potential log jams, in fact the closest equivalency is basically what happened with FDJ last summer and we saw how that worked out. This could certainly be similar. But again; FDJ was the one supposedly on the block, not Gavi or Pedri

 

[bluesfan94]

First off, of course it’s wishful thinking. But again who thought Casemiro would be sold at this time last year? Sometimes you need to show some initiative. No one said this wasn’t wishful thinking, but stranger things have happened.

Pedri and Gavi are not competing with Kessie/Roberto/Busquets (and to a lesser extent FDJ) for spots; especially long term.

Camavinga, Tchouameni and Bellingham already have been brought in to replace Modric and Kroos. Valverde is already there. Camavinga is already having to play LB because there is no room for him and Madrid added another guy to put in front of him. No, Madrid do not have to sell, but Barca isn’t buying guys that are coming to potentially block Pedri and Gavi. That’s the difference. Madrid basically is going to be having four guys competing for three spots that all in the same age range and are all going to want minutes. And we know Camavinga doesn’t want to keep playing LB, mainly because Camavinga has said so. When Barca starts playing Pedri at fullback I’ll suggest putting in a bid for him too.

Basically the scenario is Camavinga doesn’t want to play LB, sees Jude come in which takes even more midfield minutes away from him. Maybe he is disgruntled. Madrid also still needs a forward and some defenders so maybe they want to cash in on a midfielder to help fund other areas; selling from a position of strength. Yes the easiest thing is for them to stand Pat, but again you don’t know unless you ask. This is not an equivalent situation to Barcelona though as you are suggesting. Barcelona does not have those potential log jams, in fact the closest equivalency is basically what happened with FDJ last summer and we saw how that worked out. This could certainly be similar. But again; FDJ was the one supposedly on the block, not Gavi or Pedri

If Bellingham went to Barcelona, Barca would have four midfielders 25 and under going forward. If RM brings in Bellingham, Real Madrid would have four midfielders 25 and under going forward.
Gavi/Pedri have been played out of position to get them on the pitch. Camavinga/Valverde has been played out of position to get him on the pitch.
RM would be bringing in Bellingham to replace an old RM legend, who wants a one year extension. Barcelona would be bringing in Bellingham in part to replace an old Barca legend, who got a one year extension.
Real Madrid has a 30+ midfielder with one year left on his contract (Kroos). Barcelona has a 30+ midfielder with one year left on his contract (Roberto).

Were Camavinga or Tchouameni on the block last summer? No, the 30+ midfielder was (Casemiro). Ceballos is going to go, most likely. Kroos and Modric will stay for, at most, one more season.

The only "difference" you brought up is one that wouldn't exist in the counterfactual scenario. Not sure why you can't comprehend what you're reading.

 

[cgf]

We all know Gavi's going to 1.FCU when his contract gets invalidated

 

[les Habs]

So your stance is that Barcelona wouldn't sell their young midfielders if they signed a new, young midfielder but Real Madrid would because reasons?

I'm glad you've provided so much substance to your argument.

If you think that Camavinga and Tchouameni might be available if Real Madrid sign Bellingham because RM also has Valverde (24), Modric (37), Kroos (33), and Ceballos (26), but Gavi and Pedri wouldn't be available if Barca signed Bellingham even though Barca has FdJ (25), Busquets (34), Roberto (31), and Kessie (30), then you're not actually thinking, you're feeling.

Again, not sure why you can’t comprehend what you’re reading apart from a couple of accidental word omissions in my initial post which are pretty easy to logically fill in. I never said Real Madrid would sell their young midfielders if they signed a new, young midfielder. If for some reason you still disagree with that at this point, then go ahead and quote where I said that.

So my argument, which you can’t even put forward correctly, lacks substance and yet you keep replying to it. That makes a lot of sense.

Again, I never said they might be available if Madrid sign Bellingham. My initial post very clearly discusses that the issue with signing Bellingham might be that it leaves one of Bellingham, Camavinga, Tchouameni or Valverde playing out of their preferred/best position and/or with less playing time overall. That doesn’t mean Madrid would sell one of them and yet again I never said that. The issues then that might arise are you have a player unhappy with playing out of position and/or playing a somewhat rotational role. Why might that be an issue? You might have an unhappy player or if your manager can’t handle the situation the team being affected by it. Take just the unhappy player though, they may want to leave the club. That is the “problem” I was very clearly alluding to in my initial post. Now how much of a problem is that for Madrid? Probably not that much of a problem as Madrid could potentially work through the situation or more over they pretty much have no issues offloading players if need be whether they’re good or not and all of those players are good.

As for the rest of it, Sergi isn’t exclusively a midfielder and Kessie isn’t remotely 30.

My advice, if you can’t comprehend what you’re reading, ask for clarification so you can possibly post to the point and not some made up argument that you brought to the conversation.

 

[Savant]

If Bellingham went to Barcelona, Barca would have four midfielders 25 and under going forward. If RM brings in Bellingham, Real Madrid would have four midfielders 25 and under going forward.
Gavi/Pedri have been played out of position to get them on the pitch. Camavinga/Valverde has been played out of position to get him on the pitch.
RM would be bringing in Bellingham to replace an old RM legend, who wants a one year extension. Barcelona would be bringing in Bellingham in part to replace an old Barca legend, who got a one year extension.
Real Madrid has a 30+ midfielder with one year left on his contract (Kroos). Barcelona has a 30+ midfielder with one year left on his contract (Roberto).

Were Camavinga or Tchouameni on the block last summer? No, the 30+ midfielder was (Casemiro). Ceballos is going to go, most likely. Kroos and Modric will stay for, at most, one more season.

The only "difference" you brought up is one that wouldn't exist in the counterfactual scenario. Not sure why you can't comprehend what you're reading.

your point here is basically saying that tomato and watermelon are both red so they must taste the same. It’s a bad point. LH said everything else I was going to here so will leave it at that.

 

[bluesfan94]

your point here is basically saying that tomato and watermelon are both red so they must taste the same. It’s a bad point. LH said everything else I was going to here so will leave it at that.

Yes and your point is that even though they are both red, they aren't actually both red because one is light red and one is dark red.

Again, not sure why you can’t comprehend what you’re reading apart from a couple of accidental word omissions in my initial post which are pretty easy to logically fill in. I never said Real Madrid would sell their young midfielders if they signed a new, young midfielder. If for some reason you still disagree with that at this point, then go ahead and quote where I said that.

Okay, sure. Then what was the supposedly obvious point you thought you were making? The whole conversation was regarding the sale of Tchouameni or Camavinga because Real Madrid would have too many midfielders after signing Bellingham. I said that you need more than three midfielders in a season. SEPH mentioned people riding the bench. That apparently is an obvious point to you, unless it applies to Barcelona. Or your take is simply that Madrid won't play Tchouameni and Camavinga. Which is even dumber vis-a-vis the Barcelona comparison given that Tchoua and Cama have played more games than Gavi and Pedri. Well, Tchoua has played the same as Gavi.

So I guess the question is why you think riding the bench is an obvious point when it comes to Tchouameni and Camavinga when they play more than your starlets? Feelings, not thinking.

So my argument, which you can’t even put forward correctly, lacks substance and yet you keep replying to it. That makes a lot of sense.

Yes, typically when someone makes a nonsensical argument, you poke holes in it to either get the person to respond with some substance or to admit they're feeling, not thinking. That's why the first line in response was a question. Well, actually my first response was correcting my own statement because I thought you were upset I only mentioned one Barca player whereas I mentioned two Real Madrid players. Then I asked a question to try to understand your stance, which is still woefully lacking.

Again, I never said they might be available if Madrid sign Bellingham.

I assume you are capable of reading the rest of the board and the context of the conversation.

My initial post very clearly discusses that the issue with signing Bellingham might be that it leaves one of Bellingham, Camavinga, Tchouameni or Valverde playing out of their preferred/best position and/or with less playing time overall.

Sure. It's a nonsense point given that no team ever plays just three midfielders, but I guess you made it.

As for the rest of it, Sergi isn’t exclusively a midfielder and Kessie isn’t remotely 30.

you're right. He's 26, that's my mistake. Not sure where I got 30 from. Same age as Ceballos, so the mistake only makes the parallel better. Sergi isn't exclusively a midfielder, correct. Neither is Valverde, or, evidently, Camavinga.

My advice, if you can’t comprehend what you’re reading, ask for clarification so you can possibly post to the point and not some made up argument that you brought to the conversation.

The irony is that I asked you what your point was, and in typical you fashion, you responded with a condescending Cule attitude and further obfuscated.

Your whole point is that Madrid has four midfielders 25 and younger so it would be a problem but Barcelona signing a young midfielder wouldn't be the same problem, despite it meaning that Barcelona would have four midfielder 25 and younger. And Savant is desperately agreeing with you because he needs some flotsam to cling to in this shipwreck of a Liverpool season and midfield.

 

[les Habs]

Yes and your point is that even though they are both red, they aren't actually both red because one is light red and one is dark red.

Okay, sure. Then what was the supposedly obvious point you thought you were making? The whole conversation was regarding the sale of Tchouameni or Camavinga because Real Madrid would have too many midfielders after signing Bellingham. I said that you need more than three midfielders in a season. SEPH mentioned people riding the bench. That apparently is an obvious point to you, unless it applies to Barcelona. Or your take is simply that Madrid won't play Tchouameni and Camavinga. Which is even dumber vis-a-vis the Barcelona comparison given that Tchoua and Cama have played more games than Gavi and Pedri. Well, Tchoua has played the same as Gavi.

So I guess the question is why you think riding the bench is an obvious point when it comes to Tchouameni and Camavinga when they play more than your starlets? Feelings, not thinking.

Yes, typically when someone makes a nonsensical argument, you poke holes in it to either get the person to respond with some substance or to admit they're feeling, not thinking. That's why the first line in response was a question. Well, actually my first response was correcting my own statement because I thought you were upset I only mentioned one Barca player whereas I mentioned two Real Madrid players. Then I asked a question to try to understand your stance, which is still woefully lacking.

I assume you are capable of reading the rest of the board and the context of the conversation.

Sure. It's a nonsense point given that no team ever plays just three midfielders, but I guess you made it.

you're right. He's 26, that's my mistake. Not sure where I got 30 from. Same age as Ceballos, so the mistake only makes the parallel better. Sergi isn't exclusively a midfielder, correct. Neither is Valverde, or, evidently, Camavinga.

The irony is that I asked you what your point was, and in typical you fashion, you responded with a condescending Cule attitude and further obfuscated.

Your whole point is that Madrid has four midfielders 25 and younger so it would be a problem but Barcelona signing a young midfielder wouldn't be the same problem, despite it meaning that Barcelona would have four midfielder 25 and younger. And Savant is desperately agreeing with you because he needs some flotsam to cling to in this shipwreck of a Liverpool season and midfield.

LOL. I literally explained it to you and you’re still asking me to explain it while again saying I said something I didn’t say two more times now. What is that now, five times you’ve claimed I said something I didn’t say. Better yet, after being told to quote me to demonstrate what you’ve claimed I said, you still haven’t done it.

As for the rest of it, irrelevance, a lack of context, a complete lack of reading comprehension, plenty of misrepresentation based on literally nothing and just a poor argument. And if you’re looking at total matches played in your irrelevant comparison then you‘re already not understanding @S E P H ’s obvious and valid point as well as mine, but then you’ve amply demonstrated that multiple times now.

 

[S E P H]

I should write that if there is a team(s) that can make everyone happy like being a world-class talent that comes on as a sub, it would be at Real Madrid and Barca (City forcing themselves into that same category). Tchouameni or Camavinga could totally be fine being subs for next year or so waiting for Kroos, Valverde, and Modric to all eventually retire or move on.

I think it does beg the question though, on Perez the Great's side, why would they sell Tchouameni or Camavinga before selling the likes of Kroos, Valverde, or Cebellos? I am fine with that because Arsenal needs CMs and Valverde would be as close to perfection as possible. But, I am not sure Camavinga gets on the squad considering how impressive Valverde has been this campaign. The most likely situation is that Tchouameni or Camavinga riding the bench would cause them to be unsettled and unhappy to the point they want a move out. Buying the shiny new toy in Bellingham does make matters worse.

 

[les Habs]

Messi's camp is saying he had permission but PSG changed after they didnt win last game... Seems fishy. Either way he hasnt wanted to be there and it shows.

Well as I posted yesterday based on what I heard, he only had permission if they had won or drawn the match. Like I also said yesterday, that’s pretty dumb. They shouldn’t have given him permission at this stage in the season, even a month ago, regardless of the result. That said it seems more logical that they gave him permission but that it changed rather than his permission was based on the result.

It was a joke, but the parallels between them both joining a non-competitive/disappointing club for stupid money, throwing their toys on the pram, and the ties to Saudi Arabia are pretty funny. And I’ll say it’s “interesting” to see the contrasting reactions to it, not just here.

What non-competitive club did Messi join?

I know he's 'only' suspended two weeks but I'd be surprised if Messi ever suits up again for PSG.

I completely agree.

Bellingham?

Sure why not


He has already done that when he joined Marketing St Germain

So he joined PSG for money and nothing else?

On a related note, not that it was an option, but really would have liked to have seen him at City instead of PSG.

 

[maclean]

He has already done that when he joined Marketing St Germain

Is it that hard to see why Messi felt like he had no choice but to leave Barcelona?

 

[Jersey Fresh]

What non-competitive club did Messi join?

“Non-competitive/disappointing”

 

[Corto]

Camavinga is already having to play LB because there is no room for him and Madrid added another guy to put in front of him.

You see, I don't think this is true. He's playing LB as Mendy's gone into the Lands or Perpetual Injury and Alaba just sort of doesn't cut it at LB. Nacho is okay sometimes, and sometimes gets destroyed by Chukwuedze.

Camavinga is at LB because he's RM currently best LB.
But if they bring in a world class LB, he'll be in the midfield, and he'll have a spot there IMO.
He's getting better and better, and Tchouameni's dip in form post-WC definitely has Camavinga ahead of him at the moment.

I think RM will phase out Modric/Kroos, change up the system a bit, and run with a talented, athletic midfield, with all these guys. They won't be as press resistant, they won't have the passing, but they just might overwhelm teams with their own press and guys like Bellingham and Valverde bombing forward.

I think RM wants Jude long term cause they see him as an absolutely elite midfielder.
But whether that makes them that much better short term...? Probably not.
They NEED fullbacks and a forward/striker. Benz is getting older and older, missing more and more time, and they are completely toothless without him - or someone to at least offset him if he needs rest/is injured.

 

[luiginb]

Yeah I also think RM is going for that France World Cup Champions midfield style, with athleticism > technique

 

[Scandale du Jour]

You see, I don't think this is true. He's playing LB as Mendy's gone into the Lands or Perpetual Injury and Alaba just sort of doesn't cut it at LB. Nacho is okay sometimes, and sometimes gets destroyed by Chukwuedze.

Camavinga is at LB because he's RM currently best LB.
But if they bring in a world class LB, he'll be in the midfield, and he'll have a spot there IMO.
He's getting better and better, and Tchouameni's dip in form post-WC definitely has Camavinga ahead of him at the moment.

I think RM will phase out Modric/Kroos, change up the system a bit, and run with a talented, athletic midfield, with all these guys. They won't be as press resistant, they won't have the passing, but they just might overwhelm teams with their own press and guys like Bellingham and Valverde bombing forward.

I think RM wants Jude long term cause they see him as an absolutely elite midfielder.
But whether that makes them that much better short term...? Probably not.
They NEED fullbacks and a forward/striker. Benz is getting older and older, missing more and more time, and they are completely toothless without him - or someone to at least offset him if he needs rest/is injured.

Yeah, we badly need a central forward and new fullbacks.

 

[Power Man]

Is it that hard to see why Messi felt like he had no choice but to leave Barcelona?

He has given 0 effort at PSG, it’s obvious he went for the money

 

[bluesfan94]

LOL. I literally explained it to you and you’re still asking me to explain it while again saying I said something I didn’t say two more times now. What is that now, five times you’ve claimed I said something I didn’t say. Better yet, after being told to quote me to demonstrate what you’ve claimed I said, you still haven’t done it.

As for the rest of it, irrelevance, a lack of context, a complete lack of reading comprehension, plenty of misrepresentation based on literally nothing and just a poor argument. And if you’re looking at total matches played in your irrelevant comparison then you‘re already not understanding @S E P H ’s obvious and valid point as well as mine, but then you’ve amply demonstrated that multiple times now.

Are you hard of reading? You keep saying I said you said something when in reality, I keep saying that it was placed in the context of the conversation. Now, perhaps you don’t understand what context means or perhaps you don’t understand how conversations work. I can’t help you with those basics.

But yes, keep just tossing things aside and providing zero of your own argument. At least you get to look down your nose while saying stupid shit. For more "context," Gavi has played 2,258 league minutes (3,239 total), Camavinga has played 1,689 league minutes (3,006 total), Pedri has played 1,893 league minutes (2,626 total), and Tchouameni has played 1,815 league minutes (2,450 total). So the barca players have played a few more minutes than the Real Madrid players, although apparently it's a massive difference.

What'll actually happen is Ceballos will leave, Kroos and Modric will continue to play less, and there will be plenty of minutes for the clear succession plan of Camavinga, Tchouameni, Valverde, and Bellingham. Just like there would be plenty of minutes for Bellingham, Pedri, Gavi, and FdJ. The parallels are so blatant but I guess some people can't see them.

Or let's contextualize this another way. Both Camavinga and Tchouameni came to RM when RM had Modric, Kroos, Casemiro, Valverde, and Ceballos. Now, Casemiro left at the end of the window where Tchouameni came (showing that RM is clearly moving on from its older midfielders), but the idea that Bellingham will come and unsettle these guys when they knew what the midfield was like when they came is so goofy. It's wishcasting.

Maybe they will leave. But it won't be because they aren't playing enough. It'll be because they're more attracted to a new project or the new manager doesn't like them or for the money or something like that.

Now if you can please stop saying stupid stuff and making me be on Real Madrid's side, I would really appreciate it.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

He has given 0 effort at PSG, it’s obvious he went for the money

He little choice though... City already finalized their transfers by the time Messi hit the market. Plus PSG had all his buddies. That's really why he went. His buddies have since existed ADM/Paredes, leaving Neymar.

 

[Gecklund]

Yeah, we badly need a central forward and new fullbacks.

We will give ya Martial, AWB, AND Malacia for Valverde!

 

[Spring in Fialta]

He little choice though... City already finalized their transfers by the time Messi hit the market. Plus PSG had all his buddies. That's really why he went. His buddies have since existed ADM/Paredes, leaving Neymar.

Meh, as much as everyone (including me) love to shit on PSG, him having little choice doesn't absolve him from the way he's conducted himself at PSG. I can understand an adjustment period but at this point it's pretty clear that Messi's done little for them than take their money and (figuratively) laugh. I'm sure they don't help themselves at all but this looks like it was match made in hell.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Meh, as much as everyone (including me) love to shit on PSG, him having little choice doesn't absolve him from the way he's conducted himself at PSG. I can understand an adjustment period but at this point it's pretty clear that Messi's done little for them than take their money and (figuratively) laugh. I'm sure they don't help themselves at all but this looks like it was match made in hell.

I mean he hasnt faked any injuries or bad mouthed them publicly. Is there a lack of effort on the field possibly but since he's arrived he's been at the top of their list of best players.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I mean he hasnt faked any injuries or bad mouthed them publicly. Is there a lack of effort on the field possibly but since he's arrived he's been at the top of their list of best players.

Faking injuries or bad mouthing publically is a ridiculously low standard. The consistent lack of effort from a guy of his stature is a really bad look for him, though.