Red Sox/MLB 2023 Regular Season VII - White Sox clean out the front office

[Smitty93]

Quite an ending to the LLWS, though some questionable pitching decisions by the managers between California not putting in their closer and then giving up a tying grand slam, followed by Curacao choosing to pitch to the best power hitter in the tournament.

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

It's amazing the mental gymnastics the Sox apologists do to excuse away a blunder this f***ing large. The dude is an MVP caliber player every year. They used him to dump the salary of the turd that was David Price. They took back pennies on the dollar just to save themselves a few bucks. It's absurd the bullshit we hear about why they "had" to do it.

I love the defense of it that his WAR is down

What’s the goal of the post Lonnie? To do the same ring around the Rosie that’s been done for 1000 days?

You know the point. You just don’t like getting reminded of reality

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Just rewatched both:

1) Muncy’s was higher off the wall to the point Duvall had to leap for it and Duvall is much taller than yoshida

2) much tougher play off a left handed bat than a right handed bat anyway due to the slice on the ball. Yoshida’s hit the wall at about shoulder height for him, which is about 1 foot 6 inches

What does any of that got to do with how they played it?

Duvall looked just as clown-like as Yoshida on a line drive straight over their heads. Its a tough play.

 

[McGarnagle]

I still don't think Mookie wanted to stay here as a free agent. If he was signed long term or was willing to sign here long term then my response to the trade would be different. I wish they kept him, he's truly one of the top 5 talents in the game. But he didn't want to be here and he was a pending UFA with one year left (that turned out to be a shortened season anyway), so I begrudgingly accept that it had to happen.

 

[CDJ]

What does any of that got to do with how they played it?

Duvall looked just as clown-like as Yoshida on a line drive straight over their heads. Its a tough play.

Because they are different plays- part of why Duvall got turned around and looked “clown like” is because of the slice off a LH bat, something Yoshida didn’t have to deal with

Yoshida’s wasn’t an easy play, just one that’s made by most solid outfielders bigger and faster than him. The ball wasn’t even hooking away from him! It was off the bat of Maldonado! It hit the wall below head-height

I don’t think anybody makes Duvall’s play. Perhaps Mookie because he has a 40 inch vertical and is a freak out there

Yoshida is one of the worst defensive OF in baseball, and even if I grant that you were right about these plays being the same it unfortunately doesn’t change that fact. I wish it would because it would solve a lot of problems. Maybe he can work at it and improve- Xander did at SS late in his career. It’s just doubtful at Masa’s age

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Because they are different plays- part of why Duvall got turned around and looked “clown like” is because of the slice off a LH bat, something Yoshida didn’t have to deal with
Yoshida’s wasn’t an easy play, just one that’s made by most solid outfielders bigger and faster than him. The ball wasn’t even hooking away from him! It was off the bat of Maldonado! It hit the wall below head-height
I don’t think anybody makes Duvall’s play. Perhaps Mookie because he has a 40 inch vertical and is a freak out thereYoshida is one of the worst defensive OF in baseball, and even if I grant that you were right about these plays being the same it unfortunately doesn’t change that fact. I wish it would because it would solve a lot of problems. Maybe he can work at it and improve- Xander did at SS late in his career. It’s just doubtful at Masa’s age

I disagree.

 

[CDJ]

I still don't think Mookie wanted to stay here as a free agent. If he was signed long term or was willing to sign here long term then my response to the trade would be different. I wish they kept him, he's truly one of the top 5 talents in the game. But he didn't want to be here and he was a pending UFA with one year left (that turned out to be a shortened season anyway), so I begrudgingly accept that it had to happen.

People want to pretend it’s a “saving dollars” thing when that couldn’t be further from the truth. Even if he did want to be here the org had checkmated themselves into being on the hook for severe org-building penalties because of how terribly they spent A LOT of money. It would’ve impacted how they could draft, sign amateur free agents, and it would’ve even impacted MLB free agency for them. Too much money sunk into dead arms that were impossible to dump. In hindsight it makes you wonder what the f*** DD was thinking knowing Betts was coming due. Could’ve just not signed Nate or Sale and 40 mill would be available for Betts. It probably wouldn’t be a smart investment come 2030 but it would’ve saved me 4 years of annoyance. Maybe DD thought he owed the pitchers for 2018 I guess. Did he think we would operate like the Cohen Mets? Seeing as nobody had done it that seems silly. And seeing the Mets this year it would be silly to do.

I disagree.

Everybody else agrees including every analyst and all the metrics so I’m ok with that.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

People want to pretend it’s a “saving dollars” thing when that couldn’t be further from the truth. Even if he did want to be here the org had checkmated themselves into being on the hook for severe org-building penalties because of how terribly they spent A LOT of money. It would’ve impacted how they could draft, sign amateur free agents, and it would’ve even impacted MLB free agency for them. Too much money sunk into dead arms that were impossible to dump. In hindsight it makes you wonder what the f*** DD was thinking knowing Betts was coming due. Could’ve just not signed Nate or Sale and 40 mill would be available for Betts. It probably wouldn’t be a smart investment come 2030 but it would’ve saved me 4 years of annoyance. Maybe DD thought he owed the pitchers for 2018 I guess. Did he think we would operate like the Cohen Mets? Seeing as nobody had done it that seems silly
Everybody else agrees including every analyst and all the metrics so I’m ok with that.

As long as you know everybody else...

 

[KrejciMVP]

It's amazing the mental gymnastics the Sox apologists do to excuse away a blunder this f***ing large. The dude is an MVP caliber player every year. They used him to dump the salary of the turd that was David Price. They took back pennies on the dollar just to save themselves a few bucks. It's absurd the bullshit we hear about why they "had" to do it.

reminds of the brady mental gymnastics.

 

[CDJ]

Rangers giving off 2011 Sox vibes

Edit: Chapman and Bichette left the game w injuries for the jays

 

[Donnie Shulzhoffer]

People want to pretend it’s a “saving dollars” thing when that couldn’t be further from the truth. Even if he did want to be here the org had checkmated themselves into being on the hook for severe org-building penalties because of how terribly they spent A LOT of money. It would’ve impacted how they could draft, sign amateur free agents, and it would’ve even impacted MLB free agency for them. Too much money sunk into dead arms that were impossible to dump. In hindsight it makes you wonder what the f*** DD was thinking knowing Betts was coming due. Could’ve just not signed Nate or Sale and 40 mill would be available for Betts. It probably wouldn’t be a smart investment come 2030 but it would’ve saved me 4 years of annoyance. Maybe DD thought he owed the pitchers for 2018 I guess. Did he think we would operate like the Cohen Mets? Seeing as nobody had done it that seems silly


Everybody else agrees including every analyst and all the metrics so I’m ok with that.

Enjoy the spreadsheet.

I watch humans

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

People want to pretend it’s a “saving dollars” thing when that couldn’t be further from the truth. Even if he did want to be here the org had checkmated themselves into being on the hook for severe org-building penalties because of how terribly they spent A LOT of money. It would’ve impacted how they could draft, sign amateur free agents, and it would’ve even impacted MLB free agency for them. Too much money sunk into dead arms that were impossible to dump. In hindsight it makes you wonder what the f*** DD was thinking knowing Betts was coming due. Could’ve just not signed Nate or Sale and 40 mill would be available for Betts. It probably wouldn’t be a smart investment come 2030 but it would’ve saved me 4 years of annoyance. Maybe DD thought he owed the pitchers for 2018 I guess. Did he think we would operate like the Cohen Mets? Seeing as nobody had done it that seems silly


Everybody else agrees including every analyst and all the metrics so I’m ok with that.

Don't care

You find a way to pay your 25 yr old, home grown MVP and WS winner

 

[Johnnyduke]

Sales' gonna pitch a gem.

It's gonna be a sparkling inning

 

[Johnnyduke]

I still don't think Mookie wanted to stay here as a free agent. If he was signed long term or was willing to sign here long term then my response to the trade would be different. I wish they kept him, he's truly one of the top 5 talents in the game. But he didn't want to be here and he was a pending UFA with one year left (that turned out to be a shortened season anyway), so I begrudgingly accept that it had to happen.

I hate to keep saying this but the interview he did at Fenway this weekend was telling. I think the conclusion of him not wanting to stay in Boston was the result of him simply knowing he was never gonna get the contract he got from the Dodgers. This built up for years. The Red Sox could have been more aggressive years prior to the trade. This was not simply Mookie not wanting to be here. I get the impression Mookie likes the color green. And the Red Sox could have and should have delivered.

 

[Fenway]

Sean McDonough didn't mince words on WEEI broadcast after Mookie Betts homered.

"It's a trade that can never be defended and a stain that will never be erased, the trade of Mookie Betts by the Red Sox."

I had 3 people PM me that Sean didn't say that......

Here is the proof

Mookie Betts puts the Dodgers ahead 4-0 with a two-run blast - Boston Baseball

Mookie Betts puts the Dodgers ahead 4-0 with a two-run blast as heard on WEEI.

omny.fm

 

[Johnnyduke]

I had 3 people PM me that Sean didn't say that......

Here is the proof

Mookie Betts puts the Dodgers ahead 4-0 with a two-run blast - Boston Baseball

Mookie Betts puts the Dodgers ahead 4-0 with a two-run blast as heard on WEEI.

omny.fm

I can only imagine who the 3 were

 

[Fenway]

I can only imagine who the 3 were

 

[Fenway]

Red Sox won it all in 1918 with Babe Ruth - Ruth was moved before the 1920 season
Red Sox won it all in 2018 with Mookie Betts - Betts was moved before the 2020 season

Remember a big part of the Betts trade was unloading David Price.

On a personal level, NESN between 1984 and 2001 under John Harrington became the best RSN in the US because he would sign off on anything we needed. Our studios at Fenway Park were the old WMEX/WITS radio studios but we made it work and salaries behind the scenes were equal to New York, LA, and Chicago.

FSG took over in 2002 and since then contract negotiations have not been fun.

 

[LSCII]

What’s the goal of the post Lonnie? To do the same ring around the Rosie that’s been done for 1000 days?

No goal, just amazed at how people are still trying to defend the indefensible. But hey, Henry and Company made a lot of money and padded their coffers while fielding non-competitive teams that had no shot at actually winning a title, so we got that going for us.

 

[DKH]

Sir, I am not a part of this thread's Civil War. Miraculously and against all odds.

Who’s at War I don’t have access to everyone

What are the sides

 

[LSCII]

Red Sox won it all in 1918 with Babe Ruth - Ruth was moved before the 1920 season
Red Sox won it all in 2018 with Mookie Betts - Betts was moved before the 2020 season

Remember a big part of the Betts trade was unloading David Price.

On a personal level, NESN between 1984 and 2001 under John Harrington became the best RSN in the US because he would sign off on anything we needed. Our studios at Fenway Park were the old WMEX/WITS radio studios but we made it work and salaries behind the scenes were equal to New York, LA, and Chicago.

FSG took over in 2002 and since then contract negotiations have not been fun.

To ownership, that was the biggest part, which is criminal. They used their best asset to dump a salary of a complete turd that they went out of their way to sign, despite him not wanting to come here and not being the kind of player that thrives in this kind of high pressure environment.

 

[CDJ]

No goal, just amazed at how people are still trying to defend the indefensible. But hey, Henry and Company made a lot of money and padded their coffers while fielding non-competitive teams that had no shot at actually winning a title, so we got that going for us.

They were likely a bad Laz Diaz call away from playing a game 7 to get into the World Series the season before last. Saying that team had no shot is disingenuous at best.

I remember this season because we traded for the best hitter moved at the deadline, the poopy pants gang got mad the Sox “did nothing”, and then the same poopy pants gang got mad when the nothing ended up walking in free agency. That whole sequence of events was art tbh

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Don't care

You find a way to pay your 25 yr old, home grown MVP and WS winner

Dont care.

Not my money. Ensure the penalties!

 

[Johnnyduke]

It's necessary to provide proper context when you try and make an argument. The argument about the 2021 deadline is that Schwarber was hurt when they acquired him on July 30 and he didn't play until August 13th. In that general timeframe leading up to deadline and then immediately after the Red Sox went 4-12 in a 16 game stretch that severely weakened their playoff positioning. They rebounded and made a run but it was absolutely a valid criticism at the time. We don't need revisionist history on that one. It would also be fantastic if we could drop this poopy pants gang charade! Just the absolute worst.

 

[Johnnyduke]

4.5 out with about a month to go. With the GM checking his playoff probability percentages I am wondering if they would make a decision on shutting Bello down at some point. What's the point in waiting until you are mathematically eliminated? Play the percentages, give the kid some rest to protect him.

Phillies 72-58, comfortably in the playoffs. Wonder if they can make another run!