Red Sox/MLB 2023 Regular Season VI: Hunt for the Wild Card is on

[RoccoF14]

I remember the days when Red Sox fans pissed and moaned about the Yankees buying championships.

I’d nominate this for Post of the Year if I hadn‘t already put that thread on ignore..

 

[KrejciMVP]

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Blame for this weekend?

How can it be anyone but the players?

 

[KrejciMVP]

Blame for this weekend?

How can it be anyone but the players?

you can vote that

 

[RockLobster]

I mean listing Bloom as an option for the question exactly as stated is kinda dumb. That's not an endorsement of him throughout his tenure, mind you but he shouldn't be an option for the question of blame for the weekend.

That said, I still maintain my original thought: he's gotten the farm back into a somewhat respectable place, so I'll give him this offseason to see what he does. If he flounders again then he's got to go.

 

[Johnnyduke]

That said, I still maintain my original thought: he's gotten the farm back into a somewhat respectable place, so I'll give him this offseason to see what he does. If he flounders again then he's got to go.

I can respect the one more year opinion. Some people are afraid to even state that. For me I said all along this needed to be a playoff contender till the end. When you have a playoff contending team and do absolutely nothing at the deadline, fall out of contention while you wait for injured players to come back after botching the trade deadline last year? That's enough for me to conclude this guy just simply doesn't have it at the big league level. He does not make enough good moves for the big league roster. He's scared shitless to do anything really. Whether that's a full sell off or adding a significant piece or two to augment the big league team. It's never about just building a farm system. That is only one aspect of being a GM.

 

[KrejciMVP]

I mean listing Bloom as an option for the question exactly as stated is kinda dumb. That's not an endorsement of him throughout his tenure, mind you but he shouldn't be an option for the question of blame for the weekend.

That said, I still maintain my original thought: he's gotten the farm back into a somewhat respectable place, so I'll give him this offseason to see what he does. If he flounders again then he's got to go.

pretty sure its for roster construction and perceived trade deadline failure. The poll says its Bloom at fault by a big margin, It's over for him

 

[EverettMike]

Blame for this weekend?

How can it be anyone but the players?

Genuinely wondering the same thing.

Is the suggestion that Bloom made them all quit because he didn't make a big move?

That's still on them. They're professionals.

I can respect the one more year opinion. Some people are afraid to even state that. For me I said all along this needed to be a playoff contender till the end. When you have a playoff contending team and do absolutely nothing at the deadline, fall out of contention while you wait for injured players to come back after botching the trade deadline last year? That's enough for me to conclude this guy just simply doesn't have it at the big league level. He does not make enough good moves for the big league roster. He's scared shitless to do anything really. Whether that's a full sell off or adding a significant piece or two to augment the big league team. It's never about just building a farm system. That is only one aspect of being a GM.

If this roster isn't significantly better next year I'll be ready to move on from him. Even if they completely collapse down the stretch I will be okay. I think ownership made a conscious decision to do a short reset here and that meant getting under the luxury penalty number.

No more excuses next year, especially since they have young talent contributing on cheap contracts.

 

[CDJ]

They finally have the cheap, cost-controlled franchise cornerstones with some more on the way, they absolutely must supplement them with proven talent going into next year

 

[RockLobster]

I can respect the one more year opinion. Some people are afraid to even state that. For me I said all along this needed to be a playoff contender till the end. When you have a playoff contending team and do absolutely nothing at the deadline, fall out of contention while you wait for injured players to come back after botching the trade deadline last year? That's enough for me to conclude this guy just simply doesn't have it at the big league level. He does not make enough good moves for the big league roster. He's scared shitless to do anything really. Whether that's a full sell off or adding a significant piece or two to augment the big league team. It's never about just building a farm system. That is only one aspect of being a GM.

I'm not saying that rebuilding or building a farm system is the ONLY job a GM has (or in this case a President of Baseball Operations lol), but our farm was pretty barren of legitimate pieces that could either become MLB talent or used to get MLB talent when he came in to the job.

It is my opinion that it's not only hard, but damn near impossible for a GM to balance being competitive every year while also building a farm system. So, to be clear, I'm not saying it is impossible, just almost impossible to do it.

Again, I don't care whether it's Bloom, Dombrowski, or whoever may be the hottest rising FO Exec out there, whoever took the job was stepping in to a job that had to immediately trade their best player (Betts) because ownership didn't want to pay him. They had bloated contracts like Price and Sale on the team, one of them minimizing the return for Betts.

When Sale has been healthy he's largely been a very effective pitcher, but the problem is that he's just too injury prone right now and makes too much money for what he's returning to the team.

All that to say that again, it is my opinion that it doesn't matter who took the job when Bloom took it, they were stepping in to a dogshit situation. THAT is why I'm more comfortable than others in giving him one more year. He's helped guide a front office to building up a decent farm, at least to the point where I am NOW curious to see what he can do with it. To me he gets this offseason to see what team he puts together and how they start next year. After that depending on what happens, everything is fair game to me. [shrug]

 

[Johnnyduke]

Genuinely wondering the same thing.

Is the suggestion that Bloom made them all quit because he didn't make a big move?

That's still on them. They're professionals.

True but you could also make an argument that this is the group of professionals he assembled. Maybe with a different mix the quit factor wouldn't be there.

 

[KrejciMVP]

True but you could also make an argument that this is the group of professionals he assembled. Maybe with a different mix the quit factor wouldn't be there.

and if the Red Sox made some moves and swept Toronto, Bloom fans would be outraged if he wasn't on the poll. All the credit, deflect the blame

 

[EverettMike]

True but you could also make an argument that this is the group of professionals he assembled. Maybe with a different mix the quit factor wouldn't be there.

I feel the same way, but generally over the course of a season or more. Guys throwing a tantrum after the trade deadline is primarily on them, not the GM. You're professionals. Act like it.

 

[Johnnyduke]

I'm not saying that rebuilding or building a farm system is the ONLY job a GM has (or in this case a President of Baseball Operations lol), but our farm was pretty barren of legitimate pieces that could either become MLB talent or used to get MLB talent when he came in to the job.

It is my opinion that it's not only hard, but damn near impossible for a GM to balance being competitive every year while also building a farm system. So, to be clear, I'm not saying it is impossible, just almost impossible to do it.

Again, I don't care whether it's Bloom, Dombrowski, or whoever may be the hottest rising FO Exec out there, whoever took the job was stepping in to a job that had to immediately trade their best player (Betts) because ownership didn't want to pay him. They had bloated contracts like Price and Sale on the team, one of them minimizing the return for Betts.

When Sale has been healthy he's largely been a very effective pitcher, but the problem is that he's just too injury prone right now and makes too much money for what he's returning to the team.

All that to say that again, it is my opinion that it doesn't matter who took the job when Bloom took it, they were stepping in to a dogshit situation. THAT is why I'm more comfortable than others in giving him one more year. He's helped guide a front office to building up a decent farm, at least to the point where I am NOW curious to see what he can do with it. To me he gets this offseason to see what team he puts together and how they start next year. After that depending on what happens, everything is fair game to me. [shrug]

I just think some people are completely exaggerating the situation Bloom took over. They went to the ALCS the first full season after trading Mookie Betts. That was with not even getting a great return for Betts. They had a winning record when Dombrowski was fired, had a COVID year reset and then right back in the ALCS. A 6 game ALCS where they easily could have been in the WS.

Building up a farm system has not prevented Chaim Bloom from building off of that and keeping this team in playoff contention the last two years. Instead he has not done enough at the big league level. Back to back total failures at the trade deadline. Sitting around with his thumbs up his cheeks while the team fades away in back to back years. He didn't sell when he could have last year, didn't do it this year and in neither year decided to help the big league team either. He just decided to do absolutely nothing.

He has had plenty of opportunities/scenarios to improve the big league team while not dealing away the entire farm system. Anybody could GM like Chaim Bloom. Draft players, hope they develop and throw a bunch of slop at the big league team. We should expect more than that and he should be expected to do more.

Duran
Bello
Casas

Again, what is the common denominator here? It's not Chaim Bloom. And I can't let it slide that we had #DodgersEast rammed down our throat when this guy was hired. We are anything but DodgersEast. Andrew Friedman at least has a set of balls and is fairly aggressive.

 

[Chevalier du Clavier]

No Verdugo.

 

[Johnnyduke]

View attachment 734210
No Verdugo.

The club gave him the night off so he can go have dinner with Christian Arroyo. What are the hot spots in Worcester?

 

[McGarnagle]

This Verdugo thing is one of the weirdest Sox personnel situations I can remember. They've had malcontents before, but they were public malcontents (Manny, Jay Payton, etc.). But not only was Verdugo's benching kind of out of nowhere, they're very hush-hush about it and we only have traces of rumors about it.

 

[Johnnyduke]

This Verdugo thing is one of the weirdest Sox personnel situations I can remember. They've had malcontents before, but they were public malcontents (Manny, Jay Payton, etc.). But not only was Verdugo's benching kind of out of nowhere, they're very hush-hush about it and we only have traces of rumors about it.

Given that his development has stalled and he's not gonna get any better (just my opinion) time to try and move on from him I guess.

Move #1 in the offseason should be to trade Justin Turner. I like Turner a lot. But if he can't play in the field it's time to move Devers to full time DH role. He got his money as a 3rd baseman so he shouldn't care about just being a DH with the occasional start at 3rd. Teams will have interest in Turner on a one year deal as a DH.

 

[RockLobster]

I just think some people are completely exaggerating the situation Bloom took over. They went to the ALCS the first full season after trading Mookie Betts. That was with not even getting a great return for Betts. They had a winning record when Dombrowski was fired, had a COVID year reset and then right back in the ALCS. A 6 game ALCS where they easily could have been in the WS.

Building up a farm system has not prevented Chaim Bloom from building off of that and keeping this team in playoff contention the last two years. Instead he has not done enough at the big league level. Back to back total failures at the trade deadline. Sitting around with his thumbs up his cheeks while the team fades away in back to back years. He didn't sell when he could have last year, didn't do it this year and in neither year decided to help the big league team either. He just decided to do absolutely nothing.

He has had plenty of opportunities/scenarios to improve the big league team while not dealing away the entire farm system. Anybody could GM like Chaim Bloom. Draft players, hope they develop and throw a bunch of slop at the big league team. We should expect more than that and he should be expected to do more.

Duran
Bello
Casas

Again, what is the common denominator here? It's not Chaim Bloom. And I can't let it slide that we had #DodgersEast rammed down our throat when this guy was hired. We are anything but DodgersEast. Andrew Friedman at least has a set of balls and is fairly aggressive.

I'm just saying that Bloom's start was unorthodox in that we had the COVID shortened year. The 2021 ALCS was an obvious outlier, but like many I would have liked to have seen them do something to try and shore themselves up for the 2022 year.

When 2022 went off the rails, yes I would have liked him to have sold and he/they did not. I would have liked them to have bought a little more this year, but I wouldn't have wanted Scherzer or Verlander at the prices they went at. If we were giving up one of our top prospects, I'd have wanted a younger pitcher coming back.

At the end of the day, we're (rather respectfully thus far) on opposite ends on this. I'm not so enamored with him that I cannot see the faults, but I also think that what he does this offseason ultimately determines my opinion on him. He's got pieces that he did not have before to go out in the trade market, he should hopefully have the checkbook open, so I'm fine with one more go at the helm to make some noticeable improvement in the team.

 

[RockLobster]

Given that his development has stalled and he's not gonna get any better (just my opinion) time to try and move on from him I guess.

Move #1 in the offseason should be to trade Justin Turner. I like Turner a lot. But if he can't play in the field it's time to move Devers to full time DH role. He got his money as a 3rd baseman so he shouldn't care about just being a DH with the occasional start at 3rd. Teams will have interest in Turner on a one year deal as a DH.

JT's opting out isn't he? How are we going to move him?

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

View attachment 734210
No Verdugo.

No Duran either. The quest to turn our star player into a platoon hitter continues!! At least Casas is in there.

 

[CDJ]

View attachment 734210
No Verdugo.

LHP

to Cora this is their ideal lineup against LHP


which is f***in stupid because his best player isn’t in it

JT's opting out isn't he? How are we going to move him?

Probably yeah, he can secure another multi-year deal. I bet the Sox will have the opportunity to keep him if they want to, they just may have issues with wanting to do it with Yoshida/Devers both ideally being DH’s

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Limet up, Bleier out. Interested to see how he looks.

 

[GordonHowe]

I don't follow the Sox much anymore.

But, what's the deal with the Alex Verdugo scratches?

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

LHP

to Cora this is their ideal lineup against LHP


which is f***in stupid because his best player isn’t in it


Probably yeah, he can secure another multi-year deal. I bet the Sox will have the opportunity to keep him if they want to, they just may have issues with wanting to do it with Yoshida/Devers both ideally being DH’s

I hope they bring JT back. Would be tough to lose him seeing he’s a big piece of the clubhouse and a nice RH bat. I think he’s shown he can play some 3B/2B/1B — don’t expect anything magical. Mostly a RH DH.

Urias can handle 3B. Could see some lineups with Devers DHing, Urias at 3B and Turner a day off — if they bring him back.