2023 NHL Entry Draft

[WeThreeKings]

He is a hard no for me at either one of our first round picks. His J20 stat don't mean too much as it is a weak league where he is at the top of a list of nobodies.

No way any team takes him ahead of Reinbacher imo.

I'd be beyond shocked. Like beyond shocked. They'd have to have seen something that I'm completely blind to.

Especially if they've watched ASP recently. Ick.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

Another Swedish RD is moving up people's draft lists: Tom Willander.

He's played all year in J20, with only 2 games in SHL. 25 pts in 39 gp. Button has him at #16 on his March 28th list, which would put him play for Florida's pick.

Can't say I've watched him though.

He's been ranked mostly 2nd round all year, but he's been offensively dominant in J20 in 2nd half.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Not sure where you wanna go with that.

First, Caufield is 5'7, not 5'10. At 5'10, no way he was drafted 15. He was gone top 5 or 10 at max. Furthermore, Jarvis and Cozens have 21 years old... I really like Cozens, but way too soon to make any judgment.

But, if you want to compare, Clayton Keller was drafted 7. Much better comparison IMO even if it's not perfect. Pretty sure Marner was 5'10 or 11 when he was drafted as well.

So again, not sure where you are going there since 2-3 pages.

Listing random undersized hits is why you are not sure where I'm going with this. And it's not just about height, weight is factored in.

How about listing other undersized hits in the top 10? I'm sure you can find more.

The point? Is Benson an exception like Caufield. I think you think he is. I don't.

 

[Habs Halifax]

But like, Smith has nothing to do with Cozens, he's 6' not 6'3. Cozens is much more of a straight line high-motor/high-speed player. Smith is a deceptive player much more like Zegras in fact if you are looking for a 2019 comparison...

But anyway, the point is that every type of player is a gamble, a small player is not a bigger gamble. Benson could hit, or he could not. Its flawed to say we are looking for "an exception to the rule" there are no rules, just speculation. It's that belief that there exists some type of pattern or scouting rule that you can apply to all players that leads to evaluations outside of the player himself.

My point is if you take Benson, you think he is the next undersized forward hit like Caufield. You're overlooking the point that these are exceptions and few and far in between.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Where do you keep coming up with this Benson=Jarvis shtick? Their games are not comparable whatsoever. Is it because they're both smaller WHL forwards who put up points? They play nothing alike.

If anything, Smith is the one who would likely need to be sheltered based on the way he plays, not Benson. Benson has a very responsible two-way game and is a battler. Smith is weak defensively and doesn't engage, that won't translate to the NHL very well as a center.

I think Benson ends up being a middle undersized forward type like Jarvis. Stop trying to compare their styles. Go look at the guys taken before Caufield when he slipped to us. NHL scouts and GM's know exactly what I am talking about and Benson is ranked very close to where Caufield was in his draft year. I think Benson slips and maybe this time around, the scouts are right. Caufield is an exception where they were wrong. I see a lot of fans overlooking the odds/probability factor because we can google the past hits as examples. Sure, go and spend the right amount of time to quantify it.

I bet you Smith is taken before Benson in this draft. Idiot NHL scouts eh?

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

I think Benson ends up being a middle undersized forward type like Jarvis. Stop trying to compare their styles. Go look at the guys taken before Caufield when he slipped to us. NHL scouts and GM's know exactly what I am talking about and Benson is ranked very close to where Caufield was in his draft year. I think Benson slips and maybe this time around, the scouts are right. Caufield is an exception where they were wrong. I see a lot of fans overlooking the odds/probability factor because we can google the past hits as examples. Sure, go and spend the right amount of time to quantify it.

I bet you Smith is taken before Benson in this draft. Idiot NHL scouts eh?

Connor Bedard dropping down lists as we speak.

 

[SOLR]

I think Benson ends up being a middle undersized forward type like Jarvis. Stop trying to compare their styles. Go look at the guys taken before Caufield when he slipped to us. NHL scouts and GM's know exactly what I am talking about and Benson is ranked very close to where Caufield was in his draft year. I think Benson slips and maybe this time around, the scouts are right. Caufield is an exception where they were wrong. I see a lot of fans overlooking the odds/probability factor because we can google the past hits as examples. Sure, go and spend the right amount of time to quantify it.

I bet you Smith is taken before Benson in this draft. Idiot NHL scouts eh?

Benson is nothing like Caufield. Caufield has serious defensive limitations, to this day. Benson is not that at all.

Something to consider, as demographics in the hockey world get progressively worse the average size of players will go down. I think we are already starting to see this.

 

[TomKosto]

By the way, Boqvist is still only 22 years old and plays 22+ mins/ night on a terrible Columbus team. It's tad early to throw the towel on him IMO.

Clb is doing so bad, in parts, because they have a guy like him playing that much. Never was impressed by him when I see the Jackets play. We have enough offensive mind D with suspect defensive play, don't need an other one. I would look at offense first.

 

[TomKosto]

I think Benson ends up being a middle undersized forward type like Jarvis. Stop trying to compare their styles. Go look at the guys taken before Caufield when he slipped to us. NHL scouts and GM's know exactly what I am talking about and Benson is ranked very close to where Caufield was in his draft year. I think Benson slips and maybe this time around, the scouts are right. Caufield is an exception where they were wrong. I see a lot of fans overlooking the odds/probability factor because we can google the past hits as examples. Sure, go and spend the right amount of time to quantify it.

I bet you Smith is taken before Benson in this draft. Idiot NHL scouts eh?

Why do you keep comparing those 2? Not the same kind of player at all.... Benson is 5f10 160lbs. It's pretty much the same size Marner was in junior (he was 5ft11 160 when drafted) and their style of play are close. Caufield dropped to us because he was seen as an unidimentional, bad skating AND small prospect, not only because he was undersize. I have a feeling Toronto are happy they didn't go for the bigger Zacha/Hanifin/Meier/Provorov.

 

[Mrb1p]

I think Benson ends up being a middle undersized forward type like Jarvis. Stop trying to compare their styles. Go look at the guys taken before Caufield when he slipped to us. NHL scouts and GM's know exactly what I am talking about and Benson is ranked very close to where Caufield was in his draft year. I think Benson slips and maybe this time around, the scouts are right. Caufield is an exception where they were wrong. I see a lot of fans overlooking the odds/probability factor because we can google the past hits as examples. Sure, go and spend the right amount of time to quantify it.

I bet you Smith is taken before Benson in this draft. Idiot NHL scouts eh?

Jarvis is younger than Caufield and hes already a top 9 winger, you realize he hasnt hit his ceiling yet? You also realize that hes good? And that Benson is a better prospect than he ever was?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Jarvis is younger than Caufield and hes already a top 9 winger, you realize he hasnt hit his ceiling yet? You also realize that hes good? And that Benson is a better prospect than he ever was?

Jarvis is a middle 6F and at this point in time, that's who he is. Of course he will improve as he matures more but we are talking little gains. You usually know who they are at age 21.

Benson is a better prospect than who Jarvis was? Is that a fact or an opinion?

I don't hate Benson. I just don't think he will be a hit like Caufield. I do think he becomes a middle 6F type like Jarvis. And I'm not talking about style of player.

 

[Mrb1p]

Jarvis is a middle 6F and at this point in time, that's who he is. Of course he will improve as he matures more but we are talking little gains. You usually know who they are at age 21.

Benson is a better prospect than who Jarvis was? Is that a fact or an opinion?

I don't hate Benson. I just don't think he will be a hit like Caufield. I do think he becomes a middle 6F type like Jarvis. And I'm not talking about style of player.

Why do you keep having such strong opinions on things you clearly have minimal grasp?

 

[Hins77]

Not so familiar with the context but what Reinbacher has done that good recently to climb the ladder that high ?

Finishing the year as useful and productive Dman in swiss league is showing an intetessting developpement curve. Swiss league is a really tough one. He looks good also at the last WJC

 

[RationalExpectations]

I think Benson ends up being a middle undersized forward type like Jarvis. Stop trying to compare their styles. Go look at the guys taken before Caufield when he slipped to us. NHL scouts and GM's know exactly what I am talking about and Benson is ranked very close to where Caufield was in his draft year. I think Benson slips and maybe this time around, the scouts are right. Caufield is an exception where they were wrong. I see a lot of fans overlooking the odds/probability factor because we can google the past hits as examples. Sure, go and spend the right amount of time to quantify it.

I bet you Smith is taken before Benson in this draft. Idiot NHL scouts eh?

To be fair regarding Caufield in 2019, are ANA and MIN really worse off with Zegras and Boldy ? DET with Seider ?

 

[TomKosto]

Finishing the year as useful and productive Dman in swiss league is showing an intetessting developpement curve. Swiss league is a really tough one. He looks good also at the last WJC

I think because there's not much RD in the first round in this draft factored his rise. I have a hard time seeing a top15 defenseman in him, but he seems like a safe bet to be an all around top4. Would not be that mad if we drafted him, but I would like to go for the huge upside (Benson).

 

[PavelBrendl]

Listing random undersized hits is why you are not sure where I'm going with this. And it's not just about height, weight is factored in.

How about listing other undersized hits in the top 10? I'm sure you can find more.

The point? Is Benson an exception like Caufield. I think you think he is. I don't.

I don’t see why you keep saying that Caufield is an exception due to his size. He’s short, yeah. But he’s not a twig. And it’s not the dead puck era anymore.

Benson will likely play in the NHL at around 175-180 lbs. 7 of the top 20 point producers in the NHL are right around that mark. Kucherov, Point, Panarin, Pettersson, Keller, Marner and Hughes are all “undersized”.

There are 2 teams in the NHL whose average forward weight is below 190 lbs. They’re both playoff teams, and one of them has already broken 100 pts.

Is size a benefit? Yes. But it’s being proven time and time again that the best hockey players are still succeeding without it.

 

[Michoulicious]

Jarvis is a middle 6F and at this point in time, that's who he is. Of course he will improve as he matures more but we are talking little gains. You usually know who they are at age 21.

Benson is a better prospect than who Jarvis was? Is that a fact or an opinion?

I don't hate Benson. I just don't think he will be a hit like Caufield. I do think he becomes a middle 6F type like Jarvis. And I'm not talking about style of player.

No strong opinion ob Benson, but at 21y old Jarvis can still improve tremendously. Saying "we know who they are at 21" is not right.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don’t see why you keep saying that Caufield is an exception due to his size. He’s short, yeah. But he’s not a twig. And it’s not the dead puck era anymore.

Benson will likely play in the NHL at around 175-180 lbs. 7 of the top 20 point producers in the NHL are right around that mark. Kucherov, Point, Panarin, Pettersson, Keller, Marner and Hughes are all “undersized”.

There are 2 teams in the NHL whose average forward weight is below 190 lbs. They’re both playoff teams, and one of them has already broken 100 pts.

Is size a benefit? Yes. But it’s being proven time and time again that the best hockey players are still succeeding without it.

Not willing to carry this forward any more. I stand firm on what I said. I have high standards for undersized players and Caufield measures up to it. Keep listing guys that are hits but you're overlooking the point.

 

[PavelBrendl]

Not willing to carry this forward any more. I stand firm on what I said. I have high standards for undersized players and Caufield measures up to it. Keep listing guys that are hits but you're overlooking the point.

“Hits”. The thing is that you keep insisting that smaller players who find success are an exception. They are not. I don’t see any other point here.

You like Caufield but you don’t like Benson. Ok. No discussion to be had.

 

[Habs Halifax]

No strong opinion ob Benson, but at 21y old Jarvis can still improve tremendously. Saying "we know who they are at 21" is not right.

At age 21, you usually do have a good indication. Jarvis has middle 6F value written all over it. I'm willing to bet Benson slips a bit like Caufield did. Maybe not as much but I do see him slipping from 5 and being taken closer to 10. My target would be others cause I do think the 5-10 range is a waive and there is no undisputed BPA. Maybe that changes after the U18's.

I'm not the type to think fans know more than actual NHL scouts. They were wrong with Caufield but there were also some good hits on teams that passed up on Caufield as well. Size don't matter anymore is not accurate.

So yeah... Is Benson the exception type hit as a legit top 6F or top line forward like Caufield or does he fall in the middle 6F or 2nd line value like Jarvis. Yeah, Jarvis is not done maturing but I'll take the odds that he does not become some top 6F stud.

 

[Habs Halifax]

“Hits”. The thing is that you keep insisting that smaller players who find success are an exception. They are not. I don’t see any other point here.

You like Caufield but you don’t like Benson. Ok. No discussion to be had.

You can build a playoff pretender if you wish. I don't think you realize that for every hit you can cherry pick, there are a bunch of others who don't make it. You clearly don't understand how to quantify the probability or you understand it but choose to ignore it.

I like Caufield yes but he was someone that slipped due to size and the scouts were wrong. Some teams that let him pass buy did hit though. I see what you see in Benson but I'm not going to peg him as another type the scouts may be wrong again on. I do think he slips a bit and gets taken 8-10 range ish.

Benson is not the undisputed BPA at 5 in this draft. It sucks cause if we are picking 5 and Michkov don't slip, we are looking at another waive like we had with KK and Slaf picks.

 

[TomKosto]

Why always talking about Jarvis and not Panarin, Kane, Marner, Point, Hughes, Kucherov who are all small and comparable in size to Benson? Marner's name come a lot as a comparaison in draft profiles for Benson, yet you always comeback to Jarvis?

 

[PavelBrendl]

Why always talking about Jarvis and not Panarin, Kane, Marner, Point, Hughes, Kucherov who are all small and comparable in size to Benson? Marner's name come a lot as a comparaison in draft profiles for Benson, yet you always comeback to Jarvis?

Panarin, Kane, Marner, Point, Hughes and Kucherov are exceptions.

The almighty Seth Jarvis is the rule.

 

[ginomini]

“Hits”. The thing is that you keep insisting that smaller players who find success are an exception. They are not. I don’t see any other point here.

You like Caufield but you don’t like Benson. Ok. No discussion to be had.

I keep trying to say that, there is nonsuch thing as exceptions or odds in the draft.
ALL players have rather low chances to “hit“, even in the top of the draft. Small players DO NOT bust more often than big players. But anyway I dont think we will get that point across…

 

[TomKosto]

Panarin, Kane, Marner, Point, Hughes and Kucherov are exceptions.

The almighty Seth Jarvis is the rule.

Seth Jarvis still did 40pts as a rookie at 19-20yo, it's pretty good. Kind of a down year in his second season, which happens all the time, but he still good and can improve. It's like you're done at 21yo, kinda weird.