2023 NHL Entry Draft

[417]

Elite to me is a consistent 85+P player

At age 23 (24 in Aug) Suzuki wouldve/shouldve shown signs of that by now, which is not the case.... at all.

You dont win the Cup with 70 point players. You win with top players in the game..... Mackinnon, Makar, Rantanen, Kucherov, Hedman, Vasi, Point, Ovi, (Trotz), Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Keith, Kopitar, Doughty etc etc

This is ridiculous.

Let's just take Nathan MacKinnon as one of your examples.

MacKinnon - 95pts
Rantanen - 88pts

The other closest forward on the Avs is Lehkonen who has 49pts

Take away Rantanen from MacKinnon for 3/4 of his season...do you seriously think that MacKinnon would still be on the verge of scoring over 100pts?

You need talent AND to be surrounded with talent to get points...Nick Suzuki and Cole Caufield were 1-2 when Caufield got injured on January 21.

Today March 28th, Caufield is 3rd in scoring and was JUST passed by Kirby Dach the other day.

What are we doing here???

 

[SwiftyHab]

If we don't jump up to 1-2, then as a conslidation prize, id be really happy if FLO's pick falls to 4th or 5th giving us 2 picks in top 5.

 

[amnesiac]

So I guess RNH is elite because he, for the first time in his career, has over 90 points this season at age 29 soon to be 30 in last 2 weeks...Don't see how Suzuki has not shown the he can be an elite center. Using your simplistic definition I am not even sure how many supposed elite centers there are in the league, not many if you remove the one time 90+ point guys.

key word: CONSISTENT

 

[salbutera]

Elite to me is a consistent 85+P player

At age 23 (24 in Aug) Suzuki wouldve/shouldve shown signs of that by now, which is not the case.... at all.

You dont win the Cup with 70 point players. You win with top players in the game..... Mackinnon, Makar, Rantanen, Kucherov, Hedman, Vasi, Point, Ovi, (Trotz), Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Keith, Kopitar, Doughty etc etc

Bergeron & Krejci even Marchand at the time say hello

Oh yeah no team except Habs have made Cup finals w a player earning $10M+… you know “elite players”

 

[amnesiac]

This is ridiculous.

Let's just take Nathan MacKinnon as one of your examples.

MacKinnon - 95pts
Rantanen - 88pts

The other closest forward on the Avs is Lehkonen who has 49pts

Take away Rantanen from MacKinnon for 3/4 of his season...do you seriously think that MacKinnon would still be on the verge of scoring over 100pts?

You need talent AND to be surrounded with talent to get points...Nick Suzuki and Cole Caufield were 1-2 when Caufield got injured on January 21.

Today March 28th, Caufield is 3rd in scoring and was JUST passed by Kirby Dach the other day.

What are we doing here???

buddy.... have you watched Nathan MacKinnon play? Are you seriously suggesting MacKinnon is not an elite talent without Rantanen? and comparing the duo to Suzuki and Caufield. Are you serious now?

What are we doing here? What are YOU doing here?

Bergeron & Krejci even Marchand at the time say hello

Oh yeah not team except Habs have made Cup finals w a player earning $10M+… you know “elite players”

ok so lets bank on winning the Cup like Boston did 12 years ago. We just need a peak Bergeron, peak Chara, and peak Tim THomas who put up close to a 940 SV%. No problem....

Newsflash: Elite players dont all make $10M+ (ie before the become UFA), and I just listed them all in my above post! I didnt think that needed explaining.

You think the Habs have the top end talent: COL, TB, WSH, PIT, CHI, LA had? seriously?

 

[Habs Icing]

If we don't jump up to 1-2, then as a conslidation prize, id be really happy if FLO's pick falls to 4th or 5th giving us 2 picks in top 5.

You're so easy to please.

 

[salbutera]

ok so lets bank on winning the Cup like Boston did 12 years ago. We just need a Bergeron, Chara, and TIm THomas. No problem....

That’s right “good depth” wins the Cup, that’s why many of the elite front loaded teams either struggle to make the playoffs or can’t gain any traction once they make it (Edm, Leafs, Avs for a few years etc.) because their 3rd & 4th lines / 2nd & 3rd pairings / goaltending is sub par

Hockey is the ultimate team game..

 

[amnesiac]

That’s right “good depth” wins the Cup, that’s why many of the elite front loaded teams either struggle make the playoffs or can’t gain any traction once they make it (Edm, Leafs, Avs for a few years etc.) because their 3rd & 4th lines / 2nd & 3rd pairings / goaltending is sub par

Hockey is the ultimate team game..

Good luck with that..... Yknow cus its just so easy to find a goalie to put up a 940 SV% in the playoffs, a Norris winning Dman, and Selke winning 1C.

Hughes will find all that next summer. Sure.

Now back to reality....

 

[salbutera]

Good luck with that. Wont be winning any time soon.

Well Habs made the finals just 2-years ago - same number as Avs & more than Edm, Leafs etc. combined

 

[amnesiac]

Well Habs made the finals just 2-years ago - same number as Avs & more than Edm, Leafs etc. combined

and like numerous "Cinderella" teams to have made the Cup finals int he past (DAL, VGK, NYR, NSH, SJ), they didnt stand a chance against the best in the Finals.... And if you notice, none of those teams continued to be contenders after that. They were all one offs. Cup winners are consistent contenders.

You wanna build a team based on that? have fun. You wont win a Cup anytime soon.... Its the absolute worst way to try to win the Cup.

 

[417]

buddy.... have you watched Nathan MacKinnon play? Are you seriously suggesting MacKinnon is not an elite talent without Rantanen? and comparing the duo to Suzuki and Caufield. Are you serious now?

No, that's CLEARLY NOT what I was suggesting...that's what you chose to understand.

Of course MacKinnon is an elite talent without Rantanen...I was talking about PRODUCTION.

Are you suggesting that MacKinnon would still be at 95pts if he spent all season playing with Lehkonen Evan Rodrigues all season?

The overall health of a team factors into the production.

I'm not sure why this needs to be explained.

What are we doing here? What are YOU doing here?

Using commong sense.

ok so lets bank on winning the Cup like Boston did 12 years ago. We just need a Bergeron, Chara, and TIm THomas. No problem....

Newsflash: Elite players dont all make $10M+, and IjJust listed them all in my above post! The Habs have nothing close to that.

Who said anything about the Cup?

I was talking about Nick Suzuki's production...stay on script my guy.

If you're expecting Nick Suzuki to have 82+ pts playing with RHP. Ylonen. Hoffman, Belzile all year...I don't know what to tell you.

 

[salbutera]

and like numerous "Cinderella" teams to have made the Cup finals int he past (DAL, VGK, NYR, NSH, SJ), they didnt stand a chance against the best in the Finals.

You wanna build a team based on that? have fun. You wont win a Cup anytime soon.

TBay did squat in the playoffs w top end talent, till Brisebois took control and overpaid for solid depth.

Good depth across the lineup + health wins Cups. Kadri played an enormous role in Avs winning last year, and I fully expect them to struggle without him these playoffs - lack of good depth

 

[RabbleMasterBlaster]

There is ZERO indication that the conflict in Ukraine has negatively effected Russian hockey players AT ALL.

So you're saying you want to take me on the bet?

 

[Habs Halifax]

and like numerous "Cinderella" teams to have made the Cup finals int he past (DAL, VGK, NYR, NSH, SJ), they didnt stand a chance against the best in the Finals.... And if you notice, none of those teams continued to be contenders after that. They were all one offs. Cup winners are consistent contenders.

You wanna build a team based on that? have fun. You wont win a Cup anytime soon.... Its the absolute worst way to try to win the Cup.

I don't think any Habs fan wants to build a one and done cup chase roster.

The dilemma is are we building like the Bruins, Rangers, Canes or do we get lucky like the Oilers and Leafs and Pens/Blackhawks from years prior with lottery wins at the right time.

What is your plan if we don't get Bedard or Michkov? Try to keep tanking and get annoyed with the current Habs and MSL who are trying to move up the standings? How you going to stop that if you were the GM? Trade Suzuki, Caufield, Dach like how the Hawks traded Debrincat and Dach?

 

[amnesiac]

No, that's CLEARLY NOT what I was suggesting...that's what you chose to understand.

Of course MacKinnon is an elite talent without Rantanen...I was talking about PRODUCTION.

Are you suggesting that MacKinnon would still be at 95pts if he spent all season playing with Lehkonen Evan Rodrigues all season?

Fine, yes production is relative. Of course.... But they eye test tells all.

Bottom line is the Habs dont have it. And the only way theyll get it (like almost all elite talent) is through the draft.

Thats all Im saying.

 

[CanadienShark]

buddy.... have you watched Nathan MacKinnon play? Are you seriously suggesting MacKinnon is not an elite talent without Rantanen? and comparing the duo to Suzuki and Caufield. Are you serious now?

What are we doing here? What are YOU doing here?


ok so lets bank on winning the Cup like Boston did 12 years ago. We just need a peak Bergeron, peak Chara, and peak Tim THomas who put up close to a 940 SV%. No problem....

Newsflash: Elite players dont all make $10M+ (ie before the become UFA), and I just listed them all in my above post! I didnt think that needed explaining.

You think the Habs have the top end talent: COL, TB, WSH, PIT, CHI, LA had? seriously?

Peak Bergeron? He wasn't even their #1C at the time.

 

[rahad]

I mean they were on a 7 game winless streak less than 2 weeks ago, and now theyre putting Primeau in nets tonight..... I guarantee Hughes/Gorton are doing everything to lose now.

The AHL plugs have been playing better then our Vets... Don't be so sure. The AHL players on our team will doeverything to give a win to Primeau.

I also hope ,we grab him with our #5-7 pick. We did not have a game breaking talent for a long time.
Most of the player, will take 2-3 years, before reaching the NHL. So 3 years, is not much. Only Bedard and Fantilli are NHL ready. The rest need 1-3 years.

Montreal have also been rushing kid into the NHL. So maybe, him coming to the NHL after 3 years is a blessing.

I doubt very seriously any GM picks a player that high who may not come for many years, if at all.
Don't get me wrong I love this player and his upside but most GM's know they have a limited amount of time to get their franchise turned around and competitive. A guy like Will Smith could help the Habs much sooner.
It's a tough call either way.

Will Smith is 1-3 years from reaching the NHL. He won't be playing with the habs next year. You will have Will only one years earlier.

 

[Habs Halifax]

The AHL plugs have been playing better then our Vets... Don't be so sure. The AHL players on our team will doeverything to give a win to Primeau.

I also hope ,we grab him with our #5-7 pick. We did not have a game breaking talent for a long time.
Most of the player, will take 2-3 years, before reaching the NHL. So 3 years, is not much. Only Bedard and Fantilli are NHL ready. The rest need 1-3 years.

Montreal have also been rushing kid into the NHL. So maybe, him coming to the NHL after 3 years is a blessing.


Will Smith is 1-3 years from reaching the NHL. He won't be playing with the habs next year. You will have Will only one years earlier.

Flyers will avoid shooting the puck cause they know they might make a mistake and find a Primeau hole.

Or the Habs are shopping Primeau to the Flyers in a Primeau+ trade for Hart?

 

[amnesiac]

I don't think any Habs fan wants to build a one and done cup chase roster.

The dilemma is are we building like the Bruins, Rangers, Canes or do we get lucky like the Oilers and Leafs and Pens/Blackhawks from years prior with lottery wins at the right time.

What is your plan if we don't get Bedard or Michkov? Try to keep tanking and get annoyed with the current Habs and MSL who are trying to move up the standings?

I would tank again next season for sure, yes, hope for a top pick, and then go with that. They cant stay very bad for very long.

Its bad enough they dont have the top end elite talent up front (as of now), but also, most Cup winners have a Norris type franchise Dman. Unless Lane Hutson is the steal of the draft (and put on 20+lbs), the Habs will be lacking that too.

My worry is the Habs are going to be the Minnesota Wild. Good not great for the next 15 years. Maybe more.

Can you imagine?

 

[417]

Fine, yes production is relative. Of course.... But they eye test tells all.

The eye test looked fine before every single player other than Nick Suzuki started getting injured.

It's EXTREMELY difficult to maintain a PPG pace when you're literally the only legitimate threat out there.

You become easy to game plan against.

I think you're being very harsh with Suzuki.

Eye test tells me he's quite easily a PPG player but he's not a miracle worker either.

Bottom line is the Habs dont have it. And the only way theyll get it (like almost all elite talent) is through the draft.

Thats all Im saying.

Yeah I don't disagree with this argument on the whole, I was just responding to your suggestion that Nick Suzuki doesn't have it because of his point totals this season,

His point totals this season have been heavily influenced by all of the attrition that has surrounded him.

 

[InglewoodJack]

For one, Michkov is putting up Ovi like numbers here. Not NIK ZHERDEV numbers. Way to generalize.

are those Alex Ovechkin numbers or Alex Avtsin numbers?

 

[Tyson]

The AHL plugs have been playing better then our Vets... Don't be so sure. The AHL players on our team will doeverything to give a win to Primeau.

I also hope ,we grab him with our #5-7 pick. We did not have a game breaking talent for a long time.
Most of the player, will take 2-3 years, before reaching the NHL. So 3 years, is not much. Only Bedard and Fantilli are NHL ready. The rest need 1-3 years.

Montreal have also been rushing kid into the NHL. So maybe, him coming to the NHL after 3 years is a blessing.


Will Smith is 1-3 years from reaching the NHL. He won't be playing with the habs next year. You will have Will only one years earlier.

What guarantee do you have that Michkov will ever come over? I agree he is elite in talent but no GM is taking a player with so many unknowns.

 

[amnesiac]

Peak Bergeron? He wasn't even their #1C at the time.

Krejci was their playoff producer, fine. But dont pretend like Bergeron's Selke winning talent wasnt just as valuable.

are those Alex Ovechkin numbers or Alex Avtsin numbers?

Experts say Ovi.

 

[CanadienShark]

Krejci was their playoff producer, fine. But dont pretend like Bergeron's Selke winning talent wasnt just as valuable.


Experts say Ovi.

Kesler was the Selke winner then. Datsyuk before that. Bergeron didn't win his first Selke until a year later.

They were 1A-1B, but I think people are misremembering Bergeron as always being an elite #1C. He grew into that role later.

 

[26Mats]

What guarantee do you have that Michkov will ever come over? I agree he is elite in talent but no GM is taking a player with so many unknowns.

When is the last time a Russian star didn't eventually come over? Vladislav Tretiak?