WinterLion
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- Oct 1, 2017
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2023 NHL Entry Draft
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WinterLion
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- Oct 1, 2017
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It would be very convenient if he was a guy we liked... I get the feeling he will be in the 3rd tier (top 10 ish) on draft day...
ginomini
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- May 25, 2014
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Quick question for those who watch a lot of NCAA hockey. How do Beniers and Fantilli compare in their draft years?
Kinda similar players and both were critiqued for the same reasons during their drfat years (Physically mature for their age, questionable hockey IQ, too much north-south, etc.)
Fantilli is obviously much more dominant at the same age, but Beniers developped very well after beign drafted.
Kinda similar players and both were critiqued for the same reasons during their drfat years (Physically mature for their age, questionable hockey IQ, too much north-south, etc.)
Fantilli is obviously much more dominant at the same age, but Beniers developped very well after beign drafted.
Playmaker09
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- Sep 11, 2008
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I don't think they're that similar.
Beniers was a polished two-way C. ROR with a little more quickness, less power. His NHL transition was always going to be easy.
Fantilli is MacKinnon-lite. It'll take him a couple of years to put it all together at the NHL level. I think he needs another year in the NCAA for sure (I know that Beniers also did).
McGees
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- Jun 15, 2016
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SOLR
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I see you are new here. Yes, I watch every prospect when they get to 15 up. For Kivi, like Bedard, like McDavid, the guys that get a lot of attention at 12-13, I generally catch some glimpses at that age.
Kivi was a spectacular 13-14 years old but he's been losing his edge with his pears from 15. There are lots of premature players that don't really scale later. I still think he's an NHL player and probably a very good one with this IQ, but at this point, he's getting out of the top 10 for 2024.
5 game point streak for Wood. I managed to catch the first period last night. I think he'll annihilate the NCAA next year.
SOLR
Registered User
He's a bit too X for these guys. Having a hard time judging how well he will scale from there, the skating and quickness aren't quite there yet (normal).
SlafySZN
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- May 21, 2022
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Farrell was a 5’9 forward with 56 points in 44 games in the USHL incredibly talented and we drafted him in the 4th round, he definitely should’ve gone way higher knowing how he developed. I’ve never seen Perron but i would be curious as to what they’ve seen that makes them so high on him.
KevSkillz4
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- Apr 11, 2016
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So the only concern about Matthew Wood it"s his skating right? because he produce really well at NCAA level and he have good skillset.
2024 must be quite the legendary draft, if there's already 10 players better than a 16-year old defenceman holding his own at the same team as last years 1st overall pick.
Statwatchers think he's suddenly bad now because didn't make the WJC team due to questionable coaching decisions, or because he isn't PPG+ in the U20's or scoring in Liiga. Yet in reality he's keeping up good progression from last year, even though he's been out a lot due to sickness, injury, and international tournaments. He's still only played a handful of games in Liiga, in a role that he's never had before (3rd pair defenseman without powerplay minutes, with more defensive zone faceoffs than offensive zone) but he's still managing it just fine. We have to remember that this is still tough professional hockey, a league that doesn't regularly see any 16-year old players, let alone any16-year old defencemen who don't have a particularly strong physique to support them.
All he has to do for now is to just stay healthy, and get some good practice and experience from Liiga and earn the trust of his coach so that he can get some powerplay minutes in, and become more confident with his abilities. I don't care how good you look at 15, 16, or even 18, but how do you look at 25? That's where the smarts and skills come in.
He still has a mountain to climb to even make it to the NHL in the first place, but when someone is that smart and talented at such a young age, I wouldn't bet against them. Fortunately much like another former TPS prospect from a few years back, we're also talking about an exceptionally mature young man in Kiviharju, who too will likely be wearing a letter on his jersey early on in his professional career.
MarkovsKnee
Global Moderator
Yeah, his skating is really bad though. I have no idea how you get as far in hockey as he has and have that poor of skating. It worries me. His feet look like their weighted down with cement bricks.
He's DND for me in top 15. After that I'm more open to it.
KevSkillz4
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- Apr 11, 2016
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If Habs acquire another 1st pick (late), I think Wood will be a very good gamble. His production and talent are too good to don"t consider him in late 1st round. Top 15, i"d rather have Barlow, Yager, Moore, Heidt, Cristall, Perreault, Leonard, Ritchie, Gulalyev or Reinbacher.... for sure. But at 24-32 spot... Wood will be a target for me.
SOLR
Registered User
Nobody is watching the stats. He's 5'9'' and many scouts are starting to doubt how he will physically scale. 5'9'' who are slow have scaling issues....he didn't make the team because he didn't belong.
Stop throwing accusations, they are ridiculous. There is a real problem for Kivi here, not saying he can't address it, but he needs to focus all his energies on his skating before next year, or he won't be top 10 despite having a top 3 IQ right there with Celebrini.
There's plenty of good quality Ds next year, that's the other factor pushing Kivi down. Not sure if Veeti Vaisainen is not better already...
Dickinson, Mews, Levshunov, Marrelli, Badinka, Chromiak, Jiricek #2, etc. etc. it's a stronger D crop than this year. The overall 2024 looks weaker. Huge draft for Quebec, huge quality crop.
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SOLR
Registered User
He's a giant, so here's a guy that has a big advantage physically. His skillset is good, heavy shot (duh), but he will need plenty of time to get quicker.
Yes. He's one of the worst skaters in the draft, at least technically speaking.
The word you're looking for is talent. He just gets it, and always has so far as I can tell. He's always gone note for note with this generation (except for Bedard of course), and now he's doing it against players 3 years older on average.
When the coach himself states that "he wanted a different team composure", (that ended up being stuck in it's own defensive zone all tournament long thanks to not having any defensemen who are actually good at transitioning the puck up the ice), I'll accept his (albeit flawed) reasoning instead of just dismissing the player as simply not being good enough. There's no way you could watch that Finnish team, or the current TPS team and think that Jimi Suomi is somehow a better hockey player than Kiviharju.
Obsessing over size instead of skill never seems to get out of fashion no matter how many sub 6" elite defencemen the league churns out. Let's hope that the rest of GM's and scout follow your reasoning over mine, and that the Habs end next year with a future elite defenseman on their powerplay for the next 10 years
E: translation of an interview by the Finnish U20 coach, Tomi Lämsä on leaving Kiviharju out of the team:
- He was ill at the start of training and was not able to join the team at that stage. He didn't arrive until the Canada game. His time with the team and training was really short, Lämsä began his response in an interview with Discovery.
- The main reason is the way the team wanted to be constructed role-wise. Aron's strengths come in the power play. Of course he is extremely reliable and has a good understanding of the game, but at the moment Topias Vilen and Aleksi Heimosalmi are our powerplay defencemen. Then you always need a penalty killer at the other end. The role came to the fore, Lämsä commented.
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SOLR
Registered User
Do the past two Norris winners count?
Anyway, this is getting off-topic and I'd rather not derail the thread any further.
Age mostly, but also they typically have to speed up their schooling somewhat depending on what the local school ages are. Brady is a late birthday.
Many USNTDP grads do a year in the USHL before going to the NCAA, though most make the jump right away.
If you have a regular birthday and you're in the NCAA in your d year, you either skipped a grade or otherwise accelerated your schooling.
SOLR
Registered User
The Norris shows you nothing - you can't make an argument by association.
Also 5'11'' is a lot bigger than 5'9'', it's an appreciable difference.
MarkovsKnee
Global Moderator
That isn't the word. Everyone in this 1st round is talented. I just mean at a certain level people must have started questioned his skating. He's had to have coaches, skating coaches, hockey clinics, summer hockey camps etc, trying to get him to work on it, and it's still that bad. I'm sure he's working at it in college too.
How much more can it be improved? He's already a big guy so it's not necessarily a strength thing.
You're the one who developed the skating metrics yet in last 2 years you've advocated for players who's skating is below average (Geekie '22, Wood '23).
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