Hard question. Before the war and with out the contract. He goes top 2. But with the war and Poutine recruiting young male into soldier..... Very hard to answer that question.
2023 NHL Entry Draft
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WeThreeKings
Demidov is a HAB
Carlsson. He's in the same tier as the other guys and doesn't have any geo-political or contract issues.
Estimated_Prophet
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- Mar 28, 2003
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Agreed and I might even have Carlsson ahead of Fantili as well.
If we can just get into the bottom 4 we will draft a franchise altering forward and will have two elite scoring lines for the next decade.
Umm but we expect a full geopolitical analysis of the relationship between Russia and NATO countries of the last century and how it’s evolved through time.
Please do not post rankings ever again without taking this into account. Thank you
Nevins
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- Jul 12, 2014
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MarkovsKnee
Global Moderator
Dragicvic late first answers a lot of our needs. Right shot D with size and mobility. Putting up offense lately.
Benstheman
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- Nov 20, 2014
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SOLR
Registered User
Geezus, 2 top 4 picks!
That's the DREAM, baby!
That's when you pick Michkov right there. Carlsson and Michkov would be... then prepare to trade Caufield for a #1 D or the 2024 first overall pick (still a first #1D).
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Frozenice
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- Jan 1, 2010
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Russia is 2-0 against Hitler and Napolean in winter wars.Umm but we expect a full geopolitical analysis of the relationship between Russia and NATO countries of the last century and how it’s evolved through time.
Please do not post rankings ever again without taking this into account. Thank you
Take what into account? NATO has made it clear they have no interest in accepting Ukraine into NATO.
Monaco is doing a booming business with all the Ukrainian money flooding in there, however.
Estimated_Prophet
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No way am I taking a G in the first round.
Goalies are by far the hardest to project as NHLers and they are almost never quality starters until they are on their second pro contract. You only need one solid goaltender to win a cup and it is by far the easiest hole to fill and the easiest position to draft a starter in after the 1st round. Why waste a 1st on a player who will not play at all for at least 3-4 years then be a backup for 2-3 more years and play in less than half of your games.
Draft position players well and you won't need to use high draft capital or pay a ridiculous price to get a goalie who is good enough to win behind a strong squad.
You win by drafting well and having talented players on cheap entry level contracts making significant contributions to supplement the veteran core......drafting a goaltender who will be of little to no value in the playoffs as a backup or AHLer while on their ELC is an unwise gamble.
We have legitimate G prospects already who may very well be the answer and you only have one starting goaltender. Goalies have very little trade value until they prove themselves in the NHL so having a glut of goalie prospects not only is a waste of developmental assets it is a collection of low leverage trade assets. This notion that we need more goaltenders in the pipeline to "balance our prospect portfolio" is foolish drivel by fans who are more interested in bragging about prospect depth than they are knowledgeable about how to construct a championship contending franchise.
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Kobe Armstrong
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- Jul 26, 2011
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Fantilli over Carlsson is a no brainer at this point. So is Fantilli over Michkov.
Carlsson is firmly #4 IMO, and I'm starting to think he could drop if a team likes Will Smith more.
Carlsson had a great start but his season is hardly historic as some hoped it would be, 2 goals in 22 games.
Carlsson is firmly #4 IMO, and I'm starting to think he could drop if a team likes Will Smith more.
Carlsson had a great start but his season is hardly historic as some hoped it would be, 2 goals in 22 games.
Frozenice
No Reverse Gear
- Jan 1, 2010
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A late 1st round pick, why not on a goalie. Lots of guys we drafted, as well as other teams btw, have been busts or nothing to write home sbout.
You need to have higher standards for a goalie, however, like can he be a Hall of Famer and not like being a middle-six winger instead.
Lockin17
Registered User
- Jul 31, 2018
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Look at some of the Goalies that have been picked up in round 1.
2020 : Askarov
2019 : Knight
2017: Oettinger
2012: Vasilevskiy
Estimated_Prophet
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I would say that recent history entirely supports my theory.
I went back to 2010 and most drafts had either 1 or zero goalies selected in the first round and teams were just as successful with picking goalies between late second round and the 7th round as they were with early seconds and first rounders. You can't say this about other positions as both forward and D are very heavily weighted in favour of 1st rounders to early/mid second rounder over late second rounders to 7th rounders. I found one year where two goalies went in the first round but zero went in the second round....
Quite simply, there is no way to accurately evaluate goaltenders unless they are truly special and stand out like the Price's, Fleury's, Luongo's and Vasilevski's of the world. Drafting goalie prospects early who are not truly exceptional prospects has proven beyond any discussion of doubt to be a poor use of draft capital which is exactly why goaltenders are so rare in the first and early second round.....team's are largely in agreement with what I am suggesting.
What's odds CHL goalie be developed by 23. Last year can protect them. Don't have long enough control for me to burn first rounder on.
I would let other teams spend their draft picks on goalies and develop them. Get a Samasnov as tier 2 Ufa. Or sign a UFA, Markstrom type.
Estimated_Prophet
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You are proving my point......Only two proven starters in the decade that you just encompassed. If you go back to 2010 you could add Jack Campbell but he is a consensus terrible pick at 11th overall and Samsonov who Washington let walk for nothing.
Here are the goaltenders that went after the first round since 2010:
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Player[/TD]
[TD]Year[/TD]
[TD]Round[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]P. Grubauer[/TD]
[TD]2010[/TD]
[TD]4th[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]P. Mrazek[/TD]
[TD]2010[/TD]
[TD]5th[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]F. Anderson[/TD]
[TD]2010, 2012[/TD]
[TD]7th, 3rd[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]J. Gibson[/TD]
[TD]2011[/TD]
[TD]2nd[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]J. Binnington[/TD]
[TD]2011[/TD]
[TD]3rd[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]J. Korpisalo[/TD]
[TD]2012[/TD]
[TD]3rd[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]M. Murray[/TD]
[TD]2012[/TD]
[TD]3rd[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]L. Ullmark[/TD]
[TD]2012[/TD]
[TD]6th[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]T. Jarry[/TD]
[TD]2013[/TD]
[TD]2nd[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]J. Saros[/TD]
[TD]2013[/TD]
[TD]4th[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]A. Nedeljkovic[/TD]
[TD]2014[/TD]
[TD]2nd[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]T. Demko[/TD]
[TD]2014[/TD]
[TD]2nd[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]V. Vanecek[/TD]
[TD]2014[/TD]
[TD]2nd[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]E. Merzlikins[/TD]
[TD]2014[/TD]
[TD]3rd[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]I. Sorokin[/TD]
[TD]2014[/TD]
[TD]3rd[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]V. Husso[/TD]
[TD]2014[/TD]
[TD]4th[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]K. Kahkonen[/TD]
[TD]2014[/TD]
[TD]4th[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]I. Shesterkin[/TD]
[TD]2014[/TD]
[TD]4th[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]M. Blackwood[/TD]
[TD]2015[/TD]
[TD]2nd[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]A. Hill[/TD]
[TD]2015[/TD]
[TD]3rd[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]C. Hart[/TD]
[TD]2016[/TD]
[TD]2nd[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]J. Swayman[/TD]
[TD]2017[/TD]
[TD]4th[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Vezina winners, Stanley Cup winners, Jennings winners, All stars and almost the entire list has been a # 1 goaltender for a period of time. Honorable mention to Darcy Kuemper (2009 6th round) who just won a cup despite Vasilevski being on the other side and Francouz who was undrafted as well as the Avs new starting goaltender Georgiev who was also undrafted. Also, you should take notice of my other point....only 3 starting goaltenders from the last 6 drafts due to the fact that they take so long to develop. Maybe one or more of Primeau, Dobes and Dichow will add their names to the huge list of later picks that made it a few years from now....
It is just a fact....do not draft goalies in the 1st round unless they are really special. Taking the top ranked goalie in the first round when he isn't a near generational goalie talent has proven to be a dumb move far more often than not which is precisely why teams stopped doing it altogether.
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Lockin17
Registered User
- Jul 31, 2018
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Great answer thx..
But now is Hrabal a first rounder and something special in 2023 ???
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WeThreeKings
Demidov is a HAB
calder candidate
Registered User
I agree that G is the least valued position and the longest to develop and hardest to predict but you see a bunch of below avg G getting 5M$, but after a certain point a G can the the best player available… and even it is easy to fix getting a top 15 G is still expensive why most team looking for a G never end up pulling the trigger rolling the dice with the guy they already have or a cheaper option…
If you draft a bust it is a waste regardless of the position. Yes goalie might be the riskiest position but in round 1 and 2 but that because there just isn’t much impact player in the later round, I would probably never consider drafting a goalie in the top 10, but I think after 20 if the G is a legit NHL prospect and the BPA and especially if you have multiple pick you can consider it.
Estimated_Prophet
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- Mar 28, 2003
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I would lean towards no......being the consensus best G prospect in the draft doesn't necessarily make him special much like Fucale wasn't special. In order to justify being selected in the 1st a goalie really needs to look like a true franchise goaltender with top 5 NHL upside. Maybe he gets there, maybe not but he has to prove it for this entire season to even consider him having that upside.
For me Hrabal is a 2nd round pick at this point. There isn't much reason to believe that he is a better prospect than Dobes and you can only ice one goalie at a time so it is not like having two or three great forward/defence prospects who can play together on the same line. Even if Hrabal ends up being good he will likely be a backup 5 years from now and will be closing in on a big payday a year or two after he breaks out.......1st round picks absolutely need to be productive for cheap much earlier than goaltenders typically are on contenders. It just makes way more sense to keep plugging away at later goaltender picks and build the rest of the team with early picks. It is easy to grab a solid veteran goaltender every off season at a reasonable price and that has proven to work for Stanley Cup winners like Boston (Thomas), Chicago (Niemi), Detroit (Hasek) and Colorado (Kuemper). Or other Cup winners like L.A. (Quick), St. Louis (Binnington), Washington (Holtby), Pittsburgh (Murray) who developed goalies drafted outside of the first round.
Estimated_Prophet
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- Mar 28, 2003
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I agree that goalies can be the BPA at a certain point.....it is just very rarely the case in the 1st round. And like I said, why not draft skaters who have a much earlier and larger impact and just sign the goalies from the teams who were silly enough to draft them when they finally become valuable in their FA years.
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