2023 NHL Entry Draft Discussion

[credulous]

Given the ages, and the fact that our star players are really coming into their own right now tells you that a long term view just isnt in the cards.

If this current core doesnt work out, then by all means..we can move them out, and start again ...Bottom out, and hoard picks..(Arizona,Chicago).

given the massive cap anchors the canucks are carrying and their weaknesses in key positions taking a short term view shouldn't be in the cards

this team is just continuing down the path benning chose of squandering the primes of two of the best players this franchise has ever seen

 

[wetcoast]

In my books it's either make deals like the Hronek trade or you're trading Petterson/Demko now. There's no middle ground here.

That's a fools errand IMO take any team in the league after their core and where do the Canucks stand?

Near the bottom with little coming in terms of reinforcements.

 

[wetcoast]

EP certainly looks to be tracking to be a top 5 NHL centre.

We can play the 'what if' game forever...I'm not guaranteeing anything, your suspicions of the team crapping the bed again in the first quarter are well earned.

I'm just telling you that the team is in a 'win now' cycle..Lets hope that the GM puts our elite core group in the best position to succeed.

Sure EP is one of the what ifs but if you are a team with a poor construction, like the Canucks are with few assets to trade that are desirable, they need more than one of their 5 or 6 what ifs to pan out just to make the playoffs nevermeind actually do something.

Some are going to look at the team right now and say what if we replace the 3 or guys who are plying too high on the depth charts heck we could be even better than right now...at least that's how the Canucks ownership and management group has (mis)handled the situation for years now and look where we are.

 

[MS]

EP certainly looks to be tracking to be a top 5 NHL centre.

We can play the 'what if' game forever...I'm not guaranteeing anything, your suspicions of the team crapping the bed again in the first quarter are well earned.

I'm just telling you that the team is in a 'win now' cycle..Lets hope that the GM puts our elite core group in the best position to succeed.

It's not really 'tracking' at this point.

Right now I'd rank the NHL Cs as something like :

1. McDavid
2. MacKinnon
3. Matthews
4. Pettersson
5. Draisaitl
6. Barkov
7. Point
8. Crosby
9. Thompson
10. Bergeron

Jack Hughes maybe at #5 or #6 if you call him a C, which is debatable. Pettersson to me is a substantially better two-way player than Draisaitl and would produce just as much if he got to be on the PP with McDavid.

That's a fools errand IMO take any team in the league after their core and where do the Canucks stand?

Near the bottom with little coming in terms of reinforcements.

I mean, core is the biggest thing driving success?

Again, you either build around Pettersson/Hughes/Demko now or you trade them. There is no middle ground.

 

[NomadSports94]

That's a fools errand IMO take any team in the league after their core and where do the Canucks stand?

Near the bottom with little coming in terms of reinforcements.

The Canucks core is actually super impressive with Petey, Hughes, Demko, and now Hronek. But you need quality NHLers coming in on cheap ELC deals to continually be a cup contender. Spending to the cap to be a wild card team is not a successful plan long term

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

given the massive cap anchors the canucks are carrying and their weaknesses in key positions taking a short term view shouldn't be in the cards

this team is just continuing down the path benning chose of squandering the primes of two of the best players this franchise has ever seen

Hughes and EP are taking it to 'another level' right now.

Neither player has an interest in 'long term' views/projects.

It appears that our current GM is at least hitting the right targets to getting the team to another level...which wasnt always the case before.

 

[NomadSports94]

It's not really 'tracking' at this point.

Right now I'd rank the NHL Cs as something like :

1. McDavid
2. MacKinnon
3. Matthews
4. Pettersson
5. Draisaitl
6. Barkov
7. Point
8. Crosby
9. Thompson
10. Bergeron

Jack Hughes maybe at #5 or #6 if you call him a C, which is debatable. Pettersson to me is a substantially better two-way player than Draisaitl and would produce just as much if he got to be on the PP with McDavid.



I mean, core is the biggest thing driving success?

Again, you either build around Pettersson/Hughes/Demko now or you trade them. There is no middle ground.

Building around those 3 is quite easy, the problem is with contracts like Boeser, Garland, OEL, and Myers being anchored to the roster. ANd if you cant trade them then you need to supplement them with high quality players on ELC, and to get those you need as many high end picks as you can manage. I was not a fan of the Hronek trade solely on the basis that hes gonna get 7 mil and we struggle enough as is with the cap. In reality, he'll cost a late teens pick and second rounder which isnt horrible

Hughes and EP are taking it to 'another level' right now.

Neither player has an interest in 'long term' views/projects.

It appears that our current GM is at least hitting the right targets to getting the team to another level...which wasnt always the case before.

To be successful long term as an organization, you need prospects who can come into the lineup on cheap contracts. You can't just spend and spend hoping you can sneak Petey and Hughes into a low playoff seed to try and carry you through a round or two

 

[Bleach Clean]

In my books it's either make deals like the Hronek trade or you're trading Petterson/Demko now. There's no middle ground here.

False dichotomy. You could make the Hronek trade and Pettersson/Demko are likely to want out anyway, considering how bad this team has been. You are Begging the Question.

 

[wetcoast]

It's not really 'tracking' at this point.

Right now I'd rank the NHL Cs as something like :

1. McDavid
2. MacKinnon
3. Matthews
4. Pettersson
5. Draisaitl
6. Barkov
7. Point
8. Crosby
9. Thompson
10. Bergeron

Jack Hughes maybe at #5 or #6 if you call him a C, which is debatable. Pettersson to me is a substantially better two-way player than Draisaitl and would produce just as much if he got to be on the PP with McDavid.

Sure like I said one of the big if, probably the biggest worked out the other 5 or 6 things didn't

I mean, core is the biggest thing driving success?

Again, you either build around Pettersson/Hughes/Demko now or you trade them. There is no middle ground.

We had the "core" plus Horvat and EP40 being a top 5 center and were out of the playoffs, letting go of JTM and Brock and adding draft picks would have been a better option but getting closer to the cliff doesn't mean that you have to jump off it either.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

To be successful long term as an organization, you need prospects who can come into the lineup on cheap contracts. You can't just spend and spend hoping you can sneak Petey and Hughes into a low playoff seed to try and carry you through a round or two

Totally agree...and this is precisely why they wont trade their 1st round pick this season.

You never know..but I'd be very surprised if they did (especially after JR's comments on moving 1st's)

 

[MS]

False dichotomy. You could make the Hronek trade and Pettersson/Demko are likely to want out anyway, considering how bad this team has been. You are Begging the Question.

We have a top-5 C and a top-5 D in the NHL, something you couldn't say at any other time in this team's 53-year history. Plus an elite goalie.

You build around those guys. You do your best to create an environment where they want to stay long term.

If that fails - either in terms of generating results or retaining the players or both - you blow it up and do a full rebuild in 2 years.

Sitting on those players picking your ass and jacking off over 2nd round picks and then watching them leave in 2 years is the absolute stupidest thing imaginable. It actually boggles my mind that people are cheerleading this sort of nonsense.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Personally, I think they should trade the 1st. They've already chosen the direction of the club: Playoffs at any cost. Might as well lean into it. They need at least one more top-four defenseman and a high-end 3C. Use the first to get one of those.

I'd be disappointed if they didn't trade it.

Your logic is sound. If you've made the decision that the future doesn't matter, trade the pick.

Why would any short re-tool advocate argue otherwise?

 

[Diamonddog01]

The players don’t care. The games have meaning for them

So the players aren't remotely excited by the (now remote) possibility of playing with Bedard or Fantilli? Or recognize that acquiring either would immensely improve the team?

 

[Bleach Clean]

We have a top-5 C and a top-5 D in the NHL, something you couldn't say at any other time in this team's 53-year history. Plus an elite goalie.

You build around those guys. You do your best to create an environment where they want to stay long term.

If that fails - either in terms of generating results or retaining the players or both - you blow it up and do a full rebuild in 2 years.

Sitting on those players picking your ass and jacking off over 2nd round picks and then watching them leave in 2 years is the absolute stupidest thing imaginable. It actually boggles my mind that people are cheerleading this sort of nonsense.

There's no meat to your argument. It's pure delusion to think a 2 year re-tool will lead to a sustainable winner, given their position. But you've propped it up as the only rational course by using logical fallacies to support your claim.

A rebuild around that core does not exclude bringing in supplemental players, or trading existing players for positional needs, you're just not trading key future assets to do it.

The dumbest thing imaginable is to ignore the reality of their position while formulating a plan. You saying they can blow it up in 2 years if it fails is basically saying blow it up in 2 years.

 

[credulous]

sometimes i feel like i'm losing my mind watching the same people who mock edmonton for failing to build around mcdavid and draisatl by making foolish short term moves now argue there is only one choice for the canucks and that is to build around pettersson and hughes by making short term moves

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

So the players aren't remotely excited by the (now remote) possibility of playing with Bedard or Fantilli? Or recognize that acquiring either would immensely improve the team?

I'd say no.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Trading for a 25 year old top 4 RHD is a 'short term' move..?

 

[Bleach Clean]

sometimes i feel like i'm losing my mind watching the same people who mock edmonton for failing to build around mcdavid and draisatl by making foolish short term moves now argue there is only one choice for the canucks and that is to build around pettersson and hughes by making short term moves

I was thinking exactly this. It's actually advocating for a model worse than Edmonton, because you would never trade McDavid and Draisailt for Pettersson and Hughes... I guess Demko is the fulcrum? 3 years with him, let's see.

 

[SelltheTeamFrancesco]

Craig's List: Adam Fantilli, Leo Carlsson jostle for 2nd behind Connor Bedard in NHL Draft ranking | TSN

Regina Pats centre Connor Bedard is the runaway favourite to be selected No. 1 overall in June, but the No. 2 spot is open for discussion according to TSN Director of Scouting Craig Button.

www.tsn.ca

Craig's list dropped it's always an interesting read.

 

[Diamonddog01]

I'd say no.

That's odd t ome Most players would be excited to play with one of potentially the best players in the world.

 

[canuckking1]

Craig's List: Adam Fantilli, Leo Carlsson jostle for 2nd behind Connor Bedard in NHL Draft ranking | TSN

Regina Pats centre Connor Bedard is the runaway favourite to be selected No. 1 overall in June, but the No. 2 spot is open for discussion according to TSN Director of Scouting Craig Button.

www.tsn.ca

Craig's list dropped it's always an interesting read.

Another list with Moore outside the top 10. Weird feels like I'm overrating him, or the scouts are underrating him.

 

[DonnyNucker]

So the players aren't remotely excited by the (now remote) possibility of playing with Bedard or Fantilli? Or recognize that acquiring either would immensely improve the team?

Do the players care about a 5% vs 7.5% chance at Bedard? No absolutely not

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

That's odd t ome Most players would be excited to play with one of potentially the best players in the world.

Players are focussed on the task at hand..Our top players are having career years...Losing games, or having their ice time cut back for the sake of getting a higher pick wont go over well.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Do the players care about a 5% vs 7.5% chance at Bedard? No absolutely not

That's a somewhat different statement.

Players are focussed on the task at hand..Our top players are having career years...Losing games, or having their ice time cut back for the sake of getting a higher pick wont go over well.

At one point does the organization look at the long-term health of the franchise instead of always being so myopically focused on the short-term? Apparently never...heaven forbid we annoy a player who wants more ice-time and acquire a potentially generational talent who could actually make this team a contender in a few years.

 

[andora]

more temporarily embarassed stanley cup contender bullshit

the narrative that the team has no choice but to compete now is exactly what got the canucks one playoff series win in 10 years. everytime this team tries to take shortcuts to success it costs in time it will take them to get back to being a serious team

If a retool move is a good one is it still a shortcut move?

Specifically if a transaction is good and works out but is a retool move..