HF Habs: 2023 NHL Draft part 2

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I'm not saying reinbacher is comparable to his game but he's giving me soderstrom vibes circa 2019

Soderstrom was more of a reach imo due to his lack of size and was the 4th dman off the board (2nd RHD).

I assume that you are referring to being overrated in general? I am super wary of smaller Euro league D prospects as they tend to look alot better on larger ice.
 
I think he is, personally.

He's not shaking and baking or anything, but that's not his game the same way Shea Weber never shaked or baked anyone.

Just the defensive and puck poise is unreal with his physical gifts. His panic threshold is incredible, he's able to twist and turn away from the forecheck and keep the offense pointing in the right direction always. In zone, he's always looking to create odd man advantages, jump into space, and get his shot off.

People like the Seider comparison and it may be unlikely that the offensive tools shake out that way and develop the way Seider's did.. but I think the defensive upside and ability on Reinbacher is actually more than Seider's.

Like I've said before, Reinbacher doesn't bring the sex appeal.. but I think people are underrating just how massively important an all situations right hand defenseman with size and skating, that always moves the play and offense forward for a team, is for a team.

I'm taking one of the top 5 if I had a choice, but if we are hell bent on not taking Michkov. Reinbacher is right there.
You’d take Smith over him? I thought you were based and reinbacher pilled???

Jokes aside, I think taking Smith over Reinbacher would be a huge mistake.
 
Is he showing out at the Worlds? For me, I want to see him show out offensively and it’s just kind of hard to see it since his team is struggling to score.

There’s no doubt he’s got a well rounded profile though I still think 5 is too rich for him. Had we wind a few more game and we’re picking in the 8-12 range he’d be a target for me.
It’s always nice to see production but I couldn’t care less. WTK summed it up perfectly. He’d do wonders for our transition game.

5 is never too rich for a player like Reinbacher. And I definitely don’t care that this is ‘supposed’ to be a forward year.
 
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Completely agree, Reinbacher is a reach at 5 OA as in most drafts there are multiple dmen better than him and he is receiving some kind of weird boost in value by fans because he is the consensus top RHD available. He is not a top 10 pick in the vast majority of drafts imo, especially in a strong top ten such as this year's class.

He is a very good prospect but we will be able to draft a similarly talented defender next year picking 5-10 spots later in the draft......the same can not remotely be said about a forward. If HuGo make the mistake of reaching for position I will be annoyed but I will be able to live with it because I do like Reinbacher and he fits neatly into a glaring hole.
Hehe you are completely off target as usual, I would pick Reinbacher ahead of Simon Nemec who went 2nd OV last year, I would pick Reinbacher ahead of Luke Hughes who went 4th OV 2 yrs ago. Reinbacher is in the same tier as prospects like Edvinsson (6thOV), Sanderson (5th OV) and Seider (6th OV). Im ranking him 5th OV in this draft cause I truly believe he is the 5th player that will impact the game best, not because thats a weak year for defensemen,

As @MarkovsKnee pointed out, there is no defenseman next year with the same profile as Reinbacher, a big minutes eater who is strong in all areas of the game.

If you think Reinbacher isnt worth a top 10 selection in this draft, stop pretending that you like him to let yourself a loophole in the eventuality we select him as you often do to save face. Just like you try to do with Slaf and some other prospects. Act like a man for once and assume your takes.
 
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Soderstrom was more of a reach imo due to his lack of size and was the 4th dman off the board (2nd RHD).

I assume that you are referring to being overrated in general? I am super wary of smaller Euro league D prospects as they tend to look alot better on larger ice.
What I meant basically is soderstrom like Reinbacher seems like someone that we're trying to convince ourselves is a really good option at 5. The same way soderstrom and even broberg were considerations when the other USNTDP players (the goldmine of the draft) were still on the board
 
It a bit strange to expect Habs fans not to discuss and evaluate the only 1OA pick we’ve had in our generation. Maybe you should take a step back and inquire why you’re so avoidant of the Slafkovksy topic… Ostrich reflex maybe?
No. Because I've been around the game for awhile and know all about the ups, downs, and non-linear aspects to long-term development of a prospect. I would also rather shake my head and snicker vs engage in pointless debate with "internet experts" who compare an 18 year old's progress in the NHL vs peers playing in CHL, NCAA, AHL etc.
 
Hehe you are completely off target as usual, I would pick Reinbacher ahead of Simon Nemec who went 2nd OV last year, I would pick Reinbacher ahead of Luke Hughes who went 4th OV 2 yrs ago. Reinbacher is in the same tier as prospects like Edvinsson (6thOV), Sanderson (5th OV) and Seider (5th OV). Im ranking him 5th OV in this draft cause I truly believe he is the 5th player that will impact the game best, not because thats a weak year for defensemen,

As @MarkovsKnee pointed out, there is no defenseman next year with the same profile as Reinbacher, a big minutes eater who is strong in all areas of the game.

If you think Reinbacher isnt worth a top 10 selection in this draft, stop pretending that you like him to let yourself a loophole in the eventuality we select him as you often do to safe face. Just like you try to do with Slaf and some other prospects. Act like a man for once and assume your takes.

Yeah, there's no D next year with Reinbacher's profile. He's in that David Jiricek - Seider mold. Big, two-way minute eater. Don't see anyone like that next year.

If anything, 2024 would be a good reason not to draft ASP. Next year's draft is heavy with smallish offensive D that play similarly.

Although you shouldn't concern yourself with next year, need to deal with what's in front of you.
 
What I meant basically is soderstrom like Reinbacher seems like someone that we're trying to convince ourselves is a really good option at 5. The same way soderstrom and even broberg were considerations when the other USNTDP players (the goldmine of the draft) were still on the board
Why would we try to convince ourselves of this when there’s plenty of other interesting forwards to pick lol
 
Why would we try to convince ourselves of this when there’s plenty of other interesting forwards to pick lol
Not all of us but some. I'm not even saying reinbacher isn't worth a pick that high, I personally made the case for trading for Washington's 8OA pick specifically to pick Reinbacher but I hope if Habs do pick him at 5OA, he doesn't become another case of unnecessary reaching

Yeah, there's no D next year with Reinbacher's profile. He's in that David Jiricek - Seider mold. Big, two-way minute eater. Don't see anyone like that next year.

If anything, 2024 would be a good reason not to draft ASP. Next year's draft is heavy with smallish offensive D that play similarly.

Although you shouldn't concern yourself with next year, need to deal with what's in front of you.
I'm curious to know what your draft ranking is. Same goes for @WeThreeKings
 
Not all of us but some. I'm not even saying reinbacher isn't worth a pick that high, I personally made the case for trading for Washington's 8OA pick specifically to pick Reinbacher but I hope if Habs do pick him at 5OA, he doesn't become another case of unnecessary reaching


I'm curious to know what your draft ranking is. Same goes for @WeThreeKings

WTK has already posted his. It's just a few pages back. I don't do rankings. It's way too much work.

I'll put out a player target list for the first 3 rounds at each of our picks. Then a general list for 4-7.

For #5: Smith, Reinbacher & Leonard. Each one brings something completely different lol, yet something that we need in our organization.

I'm not as high on Dvorsky as others due to his skating. Smith needs to work on his skating too, but for him it's more about gaining power, which is the easiest to fix. Everything else about his skating is fine.

The biggest concern about Smith is puck management. He sometimes complicates plays when a simple give and go would work well. But, he's supremely skilled.
 
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Dallas - drafted, signed
Florida - signed, signed
Las Vegas - signed, signed
Carolina - signed, signed.

Devils - signed, drafted.
Toronto - signed, drafted
Edmonton - drafted, signed
Kraken - signed (but not like they had a chance to draft and develop.

Tampa - drafted
Boston- signed, drafted
Islanders - drafted
Rangers - drafted
Winnipeg - drafted
Minny - signed, trade
Colorado - signed
LA - traded.

So, the "best" 16 teams have 8 drafted goalies used out of 26

I strongly believe the time of goalie focused teams are going away and it's better to have better forwards/d and a decent goalie.

I'm short, don't bother drafting a goalie in the 1st 2 rounds really, or the very least high, like 20th, 15th, or higher.
 
Dallas - drafted, signed
Florida - signed, signed
Las Vegas - signed, signed
Carolina - signed, signed.

Devils - signed, drafted.
Toronto - signed, drafted
Edmonton - drafted, signed
Kraken - signed (but not like they had a chance to draft and develop.

Tampa - drafted
Boston- signed, drafted
Islanders - drafted
Rangers - drafted
Winnipeg - drafted
Minny - signed, trade
Colorado - signed
LA - traded.

So, the "best" 16 teams have 8 drafted goalies used out of 26

I strongly believe the time of goalie focused teams are going away and it's better to have better forwards/d and a decent goalie.

I'm short, don't bother drafting a goalie in the 1st 2 rounds really, or the very least high, like 20th, 15th, or higher.
But, if you look at the cup winners in the last 15 years, 14 of 15 had goalies that they either drafted or that started with their team (Thomas/Niemi). Only Colorado in 2022 were the only team to deviate from this scheme. So a focus on drafting goalies is still, empirically, as important as anything as it's almost certainly conditional to win a cup as demonstrated in the modern nhl
 
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But, if you look at the cup winners in the last 15 years, 14 of 15 had goalies that they either drafted or that started with their team (Thomas/Niemi). Only Colorado in 2022 were the only team to deviate from this scheme. So a focus on drafting goalies is still, empirically, as important as anything as it's almost certainly conditional to win a cup as demonstrated in the modern nhl
Those goalies are almost always later rounds.

Kuemper - 6th
Vasilevskiy was 1st.
Bennington- 5th
Holtby - 3rd
Murray x2 2nd
Crawford - 2nd
Quick - 3rd
Crawford - 2nd
Quick - 3rd
Thomas - 8th ?
Niemi - undrafted

This is always why I added that you don't need to draft a goalie high.

1st round pick for a goalie seems too high with the results we're seeing.

Seems best to wait until the mid 2nd, or late 2nd to 3rd round to pick your goalie.
 
Those goalies are almost always later rounds.

Kuemper - 6th
Vasilevskiy was 1st.
Bennington- 5th
Holtby - 3rd
Murray x2 2nd
Crawford - 2nd
Quick - 3rd
Crawford - 2nd
Quick - 3rd
Thomas - 8th ?
Niemi - undrafted

This is always why I added that you don't need to draft a goalie high.

1st round pick for a goalie seems too high with the results we're seeing.

Seems best to wait until the mid 2nd, or late 2nd to 3rd round to pick your goalie.
Sorry I consider high picks 2nd Rd also. There are a few 3rds there but the best bet is targeting potential elite goaltenders with 2nd Rd picks or definite franchise goalies with non top 10 1st. But they appear in like 30% of drafts
 
I'm short, don't bother drafting a goalie in the 1st 2 rounds really, or the very least high, like 20th, 15th, or higher.
Better than just looking at one year sample sizes is to look at the career averages of as many goalies as you can. Now I know nothing about goalies, so I'm only going off by stats here. But what I've found so far is that every goalie is very volatile in their performances, and that unless you can get one of the very best who have consistently produced above average results for years, there's really no reason to commit to one.

Looking at recent highly drafted goalies, we can see how that plays out. Vasilevskiy was pretty bad, until he became amazing where he has stayed right until now. Oettinger has had a similar roller coaster as his team's defense has had, yet still for the most part he's been above average with extremely high peaks. Still it's far too early to tell at what level will he eventually stabilize at.

Jack Campbell was pretty good until he suddenly became pretty bad after which the Leafs dumped him. Carter Hart has been, well, average. Varlamov was consistently good until he had a couple bad seasons playing for one of the worst teams in the league, after which Colorado decided to let him loose. And now he's back to his previous level in NYI. Samsonov was also always good when his team knew how to defend, and the Leafs knew that when they signed him up for cheap.

If there's any lessons to be drawn from here for the draft, I'd say that goalies should be the last priority to fill for any rebuilding team. Finding an elite goalie through the draft is so rare that I wouldn't be bothered to even try.
 

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Hehe you are completely off target as usual, I would pick Reinbacher ahead of Simon Nemec who went 2nd OV last year, I would pick Reinbacher ahead of Luke Hughes who went 4th OV 2 yrs ago. Reinbacher is in the same tier as prospects like Edvinsson (6thOV), Sanderson (5th OV) and Seider (6th OV). Im ranking him 5th OV in this draft cause I truly believe he is the 5th player that will impact the game best, not because thats a weak year for defensemen,

As @MarkovsKnee pointed out, there is no defenseman next year with the same profile as Reinbacher, a big minutes eater who is strong in all areas of the game.

If you think Reinbacher isnt worth a top 10 selection in this draft, stop pretending that you like him to let yourself a loophole in the eventuality we select him as you often do to save face. Just like you try to do with Slaf and some other prospects. Act like a man for once and assume your takes.
Yeah, there's no D next year with Reinbacher's profile. He's in that David Jiricek - Seider mold. Big, two-way minute eater. Don't see anyone like that next year.

If anything, 2024 would be a good reason not to draft ASP. Next year's draft is heavy with smallish offensive D that play similarly.

Although you shouldn't concern yourself with next year, need to deal with what's in front of you.
To play Devil's advocate, you may be right and there ends up being no dmen like Reinbacher, but before the last little while Reinbacher himself wasn't on the map near the top of the draft. Multiple big draft lists had him in the low 1st or even 2nd round so maybe some more guys crop up like that next year. Hell, Cam Allen was supposed to be the best D from this draft at this time last year.
 
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Yeah, there's no D next year with Reinbacher's profile. He's in that David Jiricek - Seider mold. Big, two-way minute eater. Don't see anyone like that next year.

If anything, 2024 would be a good reason not to draft ASP. Next year's draft is heavy with smallish offensive D that play similarly.

Although you shouldn't concern yourself with next year, need to deal with what's in front of you.

I just hate that kind of argument. ''Why draft X when you can have a better prospect in the same position next year''? Because Reinbacher is really good and perhaps the 5th best prospect in this particular draft? And also because you never know what next year will bring. Your team could get good all of the sudden, or there could be a better forward available than defenseman next year. People were saying ''we could just draft Newhook next year'' and then Caufield fell in our laps.

The only thing that matters is how good Reinbacher is, and he is very good.
 
Dallas - drafted, signed
Florida - signed, signed
Las Vegas - signed, signed
Carolina - signed, signed.

Devils - signed, drafted.
Toronto - signed, drafted
Edmonton - drafted, signed
Kraken - signed (but not like they had a chance to draft and develop.

Tampa - drafted
Boston- signed, drafted
Islanders - drafted
Rangers - drafted
Winnipeg - drafted
Minny - signed, trade
Colorado - signed
LA - traded.

So, the "best" 16 teams have 8 drafted goalies used out of 26

I strongly believe the time of goalie focused teams are going away and it's better to have better forwards/d and a decent goalie.

I'm short, don't bother drafting a goalie in the 1st 2 rounds really, or the very least high, like 20th, 15th, or higher.

And then Bob wins a cup.
 
i see words like, "lazy," "floater" when people describe him. doesn't even backcheck.

i'm very nervous.
A team like ours needs a player with his skill and upside -- Huberdeau isn't my ideal hockey player but for the Habs he absolutely is. We need flash and skill. Grind Deez Guys hockey is stale. Will Smith has been compared to Spezza, Huberdeau, and other "soft" skilled players who have dazzled and entertained other fanbases in the last many years. But not ours. He would've gone 1OA last year, just think about that.

Will Smith's downsides are clearly over-stated at this point by the same people and from the same angle of those who think every prospect should be a two-way player who plays a 200ft game and brings his lunchbox to work, etc etc.
 
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