HF Habs: 2023 NHL Draft part 2

[Hope Of Glory]

You know its time the draft comes around when you start seeing people using HockeyDB stats in this thread hahah.

The quality of the debates in this thread has dropped some much in the last week or so.

"Oh yeah you scouted that guy the whole year and think he's going to be good because you carefully dissected his game with a thorough analysis? I just used hockeydb for 30 sec and he's going to suck, he's only 5'9 CHECKMATE."

Also, the lack of new information makes the debates between knowledgeable posters pretty dull since nobody is changing theur mind this close to the draft. So we get a lot of polarization even from them. Happens every year

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

As I mentioned last year as well, my preferred choice would not be to draft at our current position.
Last year my decision would have been to trade down to 4-5 and pick whichever of the two D's were available. Assuming we were compensated with the 35th pick from Seattle to move down, my selections would have been Reinbacher and Chesley as I believed much more confidently in the D crop last year than the forwards.

Reinbacher? Maybe you mean Jiricek?

 

[The Great Weal]

is Leonard more skilled/better then Brady was in hes draft year?

He is more skilled but not better as a prospect IMO. They both follow a power forward game and Brady is 6'4 while Leonard is a touch below 6' which makes a considerable difference for this game style. I will say though that Leonard's skating is also a clear cut better compared to Brady's draft year, but Brady has gotten significantly better in that department.

Of course I can't see in the future, but I see Leonard more of a TJ Oshie than a Brady Tkachuk.

 

[Redux91]

I mean statistically he’s about half as smart as his compatriot and linemate Smith.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

I don't expect him to be there for our 2nd first round pick, but I've found Simashev to be the hardest prospect to rank in this draft. Beautiful skating, seems like he has some flashy offense in him but doesn't have the numbers to show for it, and seems unpolished defensively to say the least.

Could be a K'Andre Miller type development though.

 

[Kaladin]

He is more skilled but not better as a prospect IMO. They both follow a power forward game and Brady is 6'4 while Leonard is a touch below 6' which makes a considerable difference for this game style. I will say though that Leonard's skating is also a clear cut better compared to Brady's draft year, but Brady has gotten significantly better in that department.

Of course I can't see in the future, but I see Leonard more of a TJ Oshie than a Brady Tkachuk.

Great, half this board wants to draft the next TJ Oshie when we can have the next Kucherov. Makes sense.

 

[ReHabs]

Total nonsense.

At a high level, you can't have 12 forwards in a team just passing the puck.
At a line level, you need a good variety of ingredients, or teams can shut down lines that are all playing the same.
At a draft level, who knows how he develops his game, we've only seen him play with playmakers. Who knows how he completes a prime scorer like Caufield?

Leonard scored a lot less than his linemates. This is in the Harlem Globetrotters style league in which they play, no less. This is a moderately sized though undeniable red flag. Remember, we are picking at 5, not 15.

Relative to his NHL opponents to come, he will not have as relatively strong and skilled linemates as he had in this past season. This is something we have to consider for all these prospects — how they play and what they manage to do has to be weighed against the relative quality of their opponents. I think someone who is third place on his line of three players, and who does not have a history of playing another way, shows gaps in his resume that preclude him from being the 5th pick in the 2023 draft.

It’s not like his size is a difference maker either, is it?

Chris Kunitz was a good linemate for Crosby too, and once upon a time he even got a call up to the Olympics. He has many successes in his career. You don’t pick Kunitz or TJ Oshie at 5OA when you lack protagonist, productive, impact players for them to play with.

On another note, ‘playmaking’ doesn’t mean passing and racking assists. It means making good plays, making good reads (as MSL insists), and generally knowing what to do on the ice. Against relatively stronger opposition only good playmakers will succeed. You cannot play a bulldozer or physical game in the NHL night after night, you have to make the right reads at the right time.

Last note, I hate to be a prick about this but starting responses with a flippant dismissal (“total nonsense.”) is not conducive to a constructive argument. I put forth a thesis, we can argue about it and bring up new and different perspectives as much as we want. That’s fun. Totally blow off someone’s argument and then still putting up a response is like saying you want to have the final word in a discussion that’s not even yet taken place.

 

[Playmaker09]

Reinbacher? Maybe you mean Jiricek?

Yeah my bad.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Yeah my bad.

Really liked your list btw - and reading your philosophy/strategy - thanks!

 

[Mrb1p]

1	1) Connor Bedard (RC/RW, Canada, Regina WHL)
2	2) Matvei Michkov (RW, Russia, SKA St. Petersburg VHL)
3	3) Adam Fantilli (LC, Canada, Michigan NCAA)
4	4) Leo Carlsson (LC, Sweden, Orebro SHL)
5	5) David Reinbacher (RD, Austria, Kloten NL)
6	6) Zach Benson (LW, Canada, Winnipeg WHL)
7	10) Matthew Wood (RW, Canada, Connecticut NCAA)
8	8) Will Smith (RC, USA, NTDP U18)
9	14) Ryan Leonard (RW, USA, NTDP U18)
10	7) Andrew Cristall (LW/RW, Canada, Kelowna WHL)
11	11) Dalibor Dvorsky (LC/LW, Slovakia, AIK Allsvenskan)
12	13) Brayden Yager (RC, Canada, Moose Jaw WHL)
13	12) Colby Barlow (LW, Canada, Owen Sound OHL)
14	17) Nate Danielson (RW, Canada, Brandon WHL)
15	31) Quentin Musty (LW, USA, Sudbury OHL)
16	18) Nick Lardis RW, Canada, hamilton OHL)
17	9) Riley Heidt (LW, Canada, Prince George WHL)
18	22) Etienne Morin (LD, Canada, Moncton LHJMQ)
19	29) Calum Ritchie (RC, Canada, Oshawa OHL)
20	15) Eduard Sale (RW, Czechia, Kometa Brno Czechia)
21	34) Tom Willander (RD, Sweden, Rogle J20)
22	20) Alexander Rykov (RW, Russia, Chelmet Chelyabinsk VHL)
23	23) Jayden Perron (RW, Canada, Chicago USHL)
24	24) Gabe Perreault (LW, USA/Canada, NTDP U18)
25	25) Axel Sandin Pellikka (RD, Sweden, Skelleftea SHL)
26	60) Gracyn Sawchyn (C, Canada, Seattle WHL)
27	19) Oliver Moore (LC, USA, NTDP U18)
28	16) Samuel Honzek (LW/LC, Slovakia, Vancouver WHL)
29	36) Otto Stenberg (LC/LW, Sweden, Frolunda SHL)
30	21) Koehn Ziemmer (RW, Canada, Prince George WHL)
31	57) Bradly Nadeau (LW/RC, Canada, Penticton BCHL)
32	26) Gavin Brindley (RW, USA/Canada, Michigan NCAA)
33	NR) Felix Unger Sorum (LW, Sweden, Leksand J20)
34	30) Hunter Brzustewicz (RD, USA, Kitchener OHL)
35	33) Ethan Gauthier (RW, Canada/USA, Sherbrooke LHJMQ)
36	32) Noah Dower Nilsson (LC, Sweden, Frolunda J20)
37	36) Kasper Halttunen (RW/LW, Finland, HIFK Liiga)
38	NR) Anton Wahlberg (C, Sweden, Malmo, J20)
39	NR) David Edstrom (C, Sweden, Frolunda J20)
40	61) Andrew Strathmann (LD, USA, Youngstown USHL)
41	34) Maxim Strbak (RD, Slovakia, Sioux Falls USHL)
42	33) Tyler Molendyk (LD, Canada, Saskatoon WHL)
43	NR) Danny Nelson (C/LW, USA, USDP, USHL)
44	28) Lukas Dragicevic (RD, Canada, Tri-City WHL)
45	40) Carson Rehkopf (LC/RW, Canada, Kitchener OHL)
46	NR) Denver Barkey (C, Canada, London, C)
47	37) Mikhail Gulyayev (LD, Russia, Omsk MHL)
48	27) Dmitri Simashev (LD, Russia, Lokomotiv Yaroslavl KHL)
49	NR) Tristan Bertucci (D, Canada, Flint OHL)
50	32) William Whitelaw (RC/RW, USA, Youngstown USHL)
51	NR) Aydar Suniev (LW, Russia, Penticton BCHL)
52	53) Oliver Bonk (RD, Canada, London OHL)
53	52) Theo Lindstein (LD, Sweden, Brynas SHL)
54	39) Daniil But (LW/RW, Russia, Lokomotiv Yaroslavl KHL)
55	65) Oscar Fisker Molgaard(C, Hv 71 SHL)
56	NR) Juraj Pekarcic (LW, Slovakia, HK nitra Slovakia)
57	56) Kalan Lind (LW, Canada, Red Deer WHL)
58	38) Caden Price (LD, Canada, Kelowna WHL)
59	NR) Carter Sotheran (D, Canada, Portland WHL)
60	NR) Nico Myatovic (L, Canada, Seattle WHL)
61	35) Alex Ciernik (LW/RW, Slovakia, Sodertalje Allsvenskan)
62	29) Emil Jarventie (LW, Finland, Ilves Liiga)
63	69) Felix Nilsson (C, Rögle BK, J20)
64	35) Lenni Hameenaho (RW, Finland, Assat Liiga)
65	NR) Timur Mukhanov (C, Russia, Omsk MHL)
66	NR) Jesse Kiiskinen (RW, Finland, SM-Sarja U20)
67	68) Beau Akey (D, Canada, Barrie, OHL)
68	NR) Carey Terrance (C, USA, Erie, OHL)
69	NR) Matthew Mania (D, Canda, Sudbury OHL)
70	72) Brad Gardiner (C, Canada, Ottawa OHL)
71	62 ) Jakub Dvorak (D) Czechia Liberec Extraliga)
72	26) Charlie Stramel (RW/RC, USA, Wisconsin NCAA)
73	NR) Quinton Burns (D, Canada, Kingston OHL)
74	NR) Yegor Sidorov (LW, Belarus, Saskatoon WHL)
75	38) Roman Kantserov (LW/RW, Russia, Stalnye Lisy MHL)
76	NR) Kalem Parker (D, Canada, Victoria WHL)
77	NR) Thomas Verdon (LW, USA, Rouyn-Noranda LHJMQ)
78	NR) Easton Cowan (C, Canada, London OHL)
79	58) Jayson Shaugabay (RW/RC, USA, Warroad USHS)
80	46) Arttu Karki (LD, Finland, Tappara U20)
81	63) Mathieu Cataford (RW, Canada, Halifax LHJMQ)
82	NR) Luca Pinelli (C, Canada, Ottawa OHL)
83	NR) Jordan Tourigny (D, Canada, Shawinigan LHJMQ)
84	55) Luca Cagnoni (LD, Canada, Portland WHL)
85	NR) Jesse Nurmi (LW, Finland, Cookoo, U20)
86	NR) Zeb Forsfjall (C, Sweden, Skellftea J20)
87	NR) Coulson Pitre (C, Canada, Flint OHL)
88	NR) Gavin McCarthy (D, USA Muskegon, USHL)
89	NR) Matthew Soto (RW, Canada, Kingston OHL)
90	NR) Linus Brandl (C, Germany, Mannheim, DEL)
1	1) Michael Hrabal (G, Czechia, Omaha USHL)
2	2) Jacob Fowler (G, USA, Youngstown USHL)
3	3) Carson Bjarnason (G, Canada, Brandon WHL)
4	4) Damian Clara (G, Italy, Farjestad BK J20)
5	5) Adam Gajan (G, Slovakia, Green Bay USHL, overager)
6	6) Noah Erliden (G, Sweden, HV71 J20)
7	7) Yegor Egorov (G, Russia, MHK Dynamo MHL)
8	8) Trey Augustine (G, USA, USDP, USHL)
9	9) Yegor Zavragin (G, Russia, Mamonty Yugry MHL)
10	10) Alexander Hellnemo (G, Sweden, Skeleftea, J20)

Last update.

 

[SwiftyHab]

 

[Mrb1p]

He is more skilled but not better as a prospect IMO. They both follow a power forward game and Brady is 6'4 while Leonard is a touch below 6' which makes a considerable difference for this game style. I will say though that Leonard's skating is also a clear cut better compared to Brady's draft year, but Brady has gotten significantly better in that department.

Of course I can't see in the future, but I see Leonard more of a TJ Oshie than a Brady Tkachuk.

To be fair, Im sure if tou dropped leonard on the Sens right now, hed be more effective on 200' than Brady.

 

[rochab]

Assuming that Bedard and Fantilli are the first 2 picks, answer the following...

At 5, I would be able to live with the following picks (in order of preference), anyone else and I am going to be disappointed...

Here's mine:

1. Carlsson
2. Michkov
3. Benson
4. Moore
5. Leonard (just barely)

 

[Vachon23]

1	1) Connor Bedard (RC/RW, Canada, Regina WHL)
2	2) Matvei Michkov (RW, Russia, SKA St. Petersburg VHL)
3	3) Adam Fantilli (LC, Canada, Michigan NCAA)
4	4) Leo Carlsson (LC, Sweden, Orebro SHL)
5	5) David Reinbacher (RD, Austria, Kloten NL)
6	6) Zach Benson (LW, Canada, Winnipeg WHL)
7	10) Matthew Wood (RW, Canada, Connecticut NCAA)
8	8) Will Smith (RC, USA, NTDP U18)
9	14) Ryan Leonard (RW, USA, NTDP U18)
10	7) Andrew Cristall (LW/RW, Canada, Kelowna WHL)
11	11) Dalibor Dvorsky (LC/LW, Slovakia, AIK Allsvenskan)
12	13) Brayden Yager (RC, Canada, Moose Jaw WHL)
13	12) Colby Barlow (LW, Canada, Owen Sound OHL)
14	17) Nate Danielson (RW, Canada, Brandon WHL)
15	31) Quentin Musty (LW, USA, Sudbury OHL)
16	18) Nick Lardis RW, Canada, hamilton OHL)
17	9) Riley Heidt (LW, Canada, Prince George WHL)
18	22) Etienne Morin (LD, Canada, Moncton LHJMQ)
19	29) Calum Ritchie (RC, Canada, Oshawa OHL)
20	15) Eduard Sale (RW, Czechia, Kometa Brno Czechia)
21	34) Tom Willander (RD, Sweden, Rogle J20)
22	20) Alexander Rykov (RW, Russia, Chelmet Chelyabinsk VHL)
23	23) Jayden Perron (RW, Canada, Chicago USHL)
24	24) Gabe Perreault (LW, USA/Canada, NTDP U18)
25	25) Axel Sandin Pellikka (RD, Sweden, Skelleftea SHL)
26	60) Gracyn Sawchyn (C, Canada, Seattle WHL)
27	19) Oliver Moore (LC, USA, NTDP U18)
28	16) Samuel Honzek (LW/LC, Slovakia, Vancouver WHL)
29	36) Otto Stenberg (LC/LW, Sweden, Frolunda SHL)
30	21) Koehn Ziemmer (RW, Canada, Prince George WHL)
31	57) Bradly Nadeau (LW/RC, Canada, Penticton BCHL)
32	26) Gavin Brindley (RW, USA/Canada, Michigan NCAA)
33	NR) Felix Unger Sorum (LW, Sweden, Leksand J20)
34	30) Hunter Brzustewicz (RD, USA, Kitchener OHL)
35	33) Ethan Gauthier (RW, Canada/USA, Sherbrooke LHJMQ)
36	32) Noah Dower Nilsson (LC, Sweden, Frolunda J20)
37	36) Kasper Halttunen (RW/LW, Finland, HIFK Liiga)
38	NR) Anton Wahlberg (C, Sweden, Malmo, J20)
39	NR) David Edstrom (C, Sweden, Frolunda J20)
40	61) Andrew Strathmann (LD, USA, Youngstown USHL)
41	34) Maxim Strbak (RD, Slovakia, Sioux Falls USHL)
42	33) Tyler Molendyk (LD, Canada, Saskatoon WHL)
43	NR) Danny Nelson (C/LW, USA, USDP, USHL)
44	28) Lukas Dragicevic (RD, Canada, Tri-City WHL)
45	40) Carson Rehkopf (LC/RW, Canada, Kitchener OHL)
46	NR) Denver Barkey (C, Canada, London, C)
47	37) Mikhail Gulyayev (LD, Russia, Omsk MHL)
48	27) Dmitri Simashev (LD, Russia, Lokomotiv Yaroslavl KHL)
49	NR) Tristan Bertucci (D, Canada, Flint OHL)
50	32) William Whitelaw (RC/RW, USA, Youngstown USHL)
51	NR) Aydar Suniev (LW, Russia, Penticton BCHL)
52	53) Oliver Bonk (RD, Canada, London OHL)
53	52) Theo Lindstein (LD, Sweden, Brynas SHL)
54	39) Daniil But (LW/RW, Russia, Lokomotiv Yaroslavl KHL)
55	65) Oscar Fisker Molgaard(C, Hv 71 SHL)
56	NR) Juraj Pekarcic (LW, Slovakia, HK nitra Slovakia)
57	56) Kalan Lind (LW, Canada, Red Deer WHL)
58	38) Caden Price (LD, Canada, Kelowna WHL)
59	NR) Carter Sotheran (D, Canada, Portland WHL)
60	NR) Nico Myatovic (L, Canada, Seattle WHL)
61	35) Alex Ciernik (LW/RW, Slovakia, Sodertalje Allsvenskan)
62	29) Emil Jarventie (LW, Finland, Ilves Liiga)
63	69) Felix Nilsson (C, Rögle BK, J20)
64	35) Lenni Hameenaho (RW, Finland, Assat Liiga)
65	NR) Timur Mukhanov (C, Russia, Omsk MHL)
66	NR) Jesse Kiiskinen (RW, Finland, SM-Sarja U20)
67	68) Beau Akey (D, Canada, Barrie, OHL)
68	NR) Carey Terrance (C, USA, Erie, OHL)
69	NR) Matthew Mania (D, Canda, Sudbury OHL)
70	72) Brad Gardiner (C, Canada, Ottawa OHL)
71	62 ) Jakub Dvorak (D) Czechia Liberec Extraliga)
72	26) Charlie Stramel (RW/RC, USA, Wisconsin NCAA)
73	NR) Quinton Burns (D, Canada, Kingston OHL)
74	NR) Yegor Sidorov (LW, Belarus, Saskatoon WHL)
75	38) Roman Kantserov (LW/RW, Russia, Stalnye Lisy MHL)
76	NR) Kalem Parker (D, Canada, Victoria WHL)
77	NR) Thomas Verdon (LW, USA, Rouyn-Noranda LHJMQ)
78	NR) Easton Cowan (C, Canada, London OHL)
79	58) Jayson Shaugabay (RW/RC, USA, Warroad USHS)
80	46) Arttu Karki (LD, Finland, Tappara U20)
81	63) Mathieu Cataford (RW, Canada, Halifax LHJMQ)
82	NR) Luca Pinelli (C, Canada, Ottawa OHL)
83	NR) Jordan Tourigny (D, Canada, Shawinigan LHJMQ)
84	55) Luca Cagnoni (LD, Canada, Portland WHL)
85	NR) Jesse Nurmi (LW, Finland, Cookoo, U20)
86	NR) Zeb Forsfjall (C, Sweden, Skellftea J20)
87	NR) Coulson Pitre (C, Canada, Flint OHL)
88	NR) Gavin McCarthy (D, USA Muskegon, USHL)
89	NR) Matthew Soto (RW, Canada, Kingston OHL)
90	NR) Linus Brandl (C, Germany, Mannheim, DEL)
1	1) Michael Hrabal (G, Czechia, Omaha USHL)
2	2) Jacob Fowler (G, USA, Youngstown USHL)
3	3) Carson Bjarnason (G, Canada, Brandon WHL)
4	4) Damian Clara (G, Italy, Farjestad BK J20)
5	5) Adam Gajan (G, Slovakia, Green Bay USHL, overager)
6	6) Noah Erliden (G, Sweden, HV71 J20)
7	7) Yegor Egorov (G, Russia, MHK Dynamo MHL)
8	8) Trey Augustine (G, USA, USDP, USHL)
9	9) Yegor Zavragin (G, Russia, Mamonty Yugry MHL)
10	10) Alexander Hellnemo (G, Sweden, Skeleftea, J20)

Last update.

Good list !

I have some players higher and some lower but that’s the beauty of the draft

 

[TomKosto]

Great, half this board wants to draft the next TJ Oshie when we can have the next Kucherov. Makes sense.

Yea that's so depressing, I guess its the Timmins/Bergevin heritage...

 

[BergevinBurner]

Guaranteed none of those guys are from the Habs lol

 

[Revansky]

Would be funny on draft day if ANA or SJ draft Michkov instead of Fantilli or Smith. All the people tearing each other on a false dilemma.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Would be funny on draft day if ANA or SJ draft Michkov instead of Fantilli or Smith. All the people tearing each other on a false dilemma.

Chicago is no stranger to controversy, imagine if they pick Michkov.

 

[Balthazar]

Guaranteed none of those guys are from the Habs lol

Executive 3

 

[BergevinBurner]

Executive 3

Missed that one, but it sounds about right lol.

If we're gonna be size queens we might as well go all in. Call up Detroit and nag then until they swap 5th for 9th and 17th, the draft Wood at 9th and But at 17th.

 

[Mrb1p]

I don't expect him to be there for our 2nd first round pick, but I've found Simashev to be the hardest prospect to rank in this draft. Beautiful skating, seems like he has some flashy offense in him but doesn't have the numbers to show for it, and seems unpolished defensively to say the least.

Could be a K'Andre Miller type development though.

Hes actually very good defensively, probably the 2nd best defensive D in the draft. Its his offensive toolkit that sucks. Aside from good hands, he doesnt have anything potent. His shot sucks, his selection is even worse, his playmaking isnt good and he cant get his shot through.

I think theres a future NHL D in there, but Im seeing Zadorov without the grit.

 

[Twisted Sinister]

I mean statistically he’s about half as smart as his compatriot and linemate Smith.

This is one of my concerns. Why was he the least productive player on the Globetrotters line?

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

is Leonard more skilled/better then Brady was in hes draft year?

Completely different player, but I’d say more skilled though wouldn’t say better.

The real issue I have with Leonard is we just don’t know how good he is. It’s part of the problem of evaluating these USDP players. They are just so dominant it’s hard to tell who’s legit and who’s a passenger.

 

[Skip Bayless]

This is one of my concerns. Why was he the least productive player on the Globetrotters?

Missed 6 games, didn't start the year on that line and is heavily implicated defensively. Moreso than his own centre. I love Smith's offensive potential, but Leonard was the C on that line.

He doesn't just play a two way game, he plays a dominant two way game. Both offense and defense. He is everywhere.

High, very high hockey IQ.

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Great, half this board wants to draft the next TJ Oshie when we can have the next Kucherov. Makes sense.

I think almost everyone wants Michkov in a vacuum. Problem is, the world exists and there are very real geopolitical risks that are difficult to measure. I don't know the answer to any of them, but to pretend they're not there is a bit naive.