HF Habs: 2023 NHL Draft part 2

[yianik]

Let's go piece by piece.

1. There are no direct correlation with pre draft production to NHL success. If that easy, Thinel, Locke, Andrighetto, Drouin would have turned into superstar in the NHL. The most important piece to any prospect from star producer to role player at the NHL level is dedication, hard work and compete. All NHL players have worked their ass off to get better and improve every single aspect of their game to reach the level they are. I have never seen highly talented player succeed without these traits. NONE. Many highly hyped players failed miserably even though they were more talented than most and people believed in their hype.

2. High ceiling guy is such a garbage, throw in all situation garbage words. Who decide the ceiling of the player? How can some player have low ceiling and other high ceiling? This all about hype, nothing more. I have seen MANY supposed high ceiling players fail miserably and more often than not, they fail but we disregard it every year for some reason like Puljujarvi, Zadina, Drouin, Yakupov, Galchenyuk, Filatov, Brule . You don't think players like Kotkaniemi, Galchenyuk, Scherbak, Kostitsyn were not "high" ceiling picks. Was the Tkachuk brothers considered high ceiling?

3. The supposed can't miss and safe prospect tag that were applied to the like of Chipchura, Poehling, McMarron(as a 4th line enforcer at least), Leblanc and I could even add Juulsen, Tinordi to the list. There are no indicator that they are even close to be similar to Leonard, like not even in the same stratosphere. Leonard just had similar numbers as Cole Caufield at the u18 and at the USNTDP, was Caufield also considered a low ceiling player before the draft? I think many people do not like hard working & high character players, just like if a player work hard and he is intense he has no other skills. A simple look at Ryan Leonard and you would realise that he has a very good shot, very good hands, he is very deceptive, very good skater and he like going to the net. You know what? he also has improved tremendously over the past few months and he never take the switch off. For many people, he is only a 3rd line player with no upside, based on what? He has talent, production, he has compete, skating? What indicate you that he has no upside? to me he seems like a guy with tremendous upside and with little question mark. He has all the box checked.

4. Size, intensity, speed and yes, character does matter! every year, it seems like a running gag over here, we only select him because of his character. You know what character does matter. We have seen it with Shane Wright just last year. As gifted and talented as you are you need to show competitiveness. Also as much as we want to avoid it, size and skating are also important. I do believe it is not a killer for a young player and they can grow and improve that part of their game but it is still a gamble and nothing is guaranteed that it would be good enough.

For me it seems like many people here do not believe that Leonard has any offensive talent which is ludicrous, just watch his tape, look at the score board and listen to scouts, nhl executive or even his teammates talk about him. In what sense does this player has no upside or is he a glorified 3rd line player? because he has the high character mark associated with him and less question marks than other top talent in this draft?

1. Most players fail. Ones who can't score in junior almost as a rule don't score in the NHL. Odds are better for a guy who can score in junior wherever to score in NHL.
2. High ceiling isn't garbage. Again, you are going to pick a guy who cant score ? This is stupid , not arguing anymore.
3. And 4 and the rest of it. I'm not saying character isn't important. But if a guy is a talentless slug but has character, you take him ?

I am saying. IF Leonard, IF Leonard has 1st line , ppg upside, I'm fine with him. I'm not a scout. But tje Habs have been known to pick low upside guys, as in can be a solid 3C if he pans out, and that's what we can't have.

 

[EquabaleAce]

Since there really isn’t a clear cut #1 in the draft, how would the goalies rank according to our picks in the 2nd they 5th rounds?

 

[Twisted Sinister]

Michkov’s stock has indeed fallen due to things not related to the geopolitical situation. He’s small, weak, and not particularly fast. He’s poor defensively and his compete level, consistency, and intensity has been called into question. There are questions around his work ethic, and he’s been rumoured to have attitude problems. There are just too many red flags, and those are all on top of the issues and baggage that are out of his control.

No one that's seen him play would believe this nonsense of a scouting report. "Small" is the only thing that could even be considered remotely accurate. He's strong on his skates, comes out of board battles with the puck more often than not, can can protect the puck with his body quite well. Even a cursory look at his shifts would dispel most of this tripe.

In terms of his attitude, reports is that he's always first to the rink, constantly working out, hockey-obsessed, and desperate to win.

His back checking is fine. While he can be caught puck-watching sometimes, it's no worse than Smith or Leonard.

Anyone who has wrote this stuff is lying to your face, completely ignorant and stupid, or trying to push a malicious narrative.

No one who scouts players, even Moar Bigger guys like McCagg, have said stuff like this. Stop reading bullshit hit pieces and check out the player yourself.

 

[McGees]

Michkov is gonna fall like Wright.
Just accept it now so you dont crash the server on us.

 

[Twisted Sinister]

Michkov is gonna fall like Wright.
Just accept it now so you dont crash the server on us.

With Wright, there were at least some valid concerns.

This one basically amounts to "Muh Russia."

I think the targeted PR campaign to slander the player is kind of disgusting to be honest.

 

[Doublechin]

Highly doubt we will get Hrabel. Athletic saying he has met with San Jose 6 times.
They pick 26th (NJ) and then again between our 31st and 37th pick. They will probably kick start the goalie run.

I wasn't aware of that, that definitely makes him a solid possibility there at 26 and teams might have to either trade down or use an earlier pick to get him. If he's gone, I'm not grabbing a goalie until our 3rd round pick, assuming we stay put and keep the picks we have.

 

[Doublechin]

Since there really isn’t a clear cut #1 in the draft, how would the goalies rank according to our picks in the 2nd they 5th rounds?

1.Hrabal
2A. Bjarnason
2B. Fowler
3.Augustine
4.Milic
5.Hellnemo
6.Gajan
7.Clara

I don't really follow goalies but based on the general consensus and multiple rankings once Hrabal is gone it will vary a lot. But there definitely seems to be quality this year.

If I can't land Hrabal at 31 then I'm waiting for our 3rd rounder and grabbing whoever I have ranked the highest that's available

I could also see Augustine go very early due to teams over scouting the USNDTP program, some teams are bound to have fallen in love and might take him way earlier then expected

 

[NeptunesTrident]

So he doesn’t back check very much. He’s questionable with contact. Skating might be a problem. Perhaps a little enigmatic. So am I describing Michkov or Will Smith? Because I’ve seen that said about both in this thread. I was in the Wright camp last year because I wanted a Center. They took Slaf and right now not taking Wright looks like the right move. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt about Michkov even though I’d love to get a game breaker.

 

[WeThreeKings]

1.Hrabal
2A. Bjarnason
2B. Fowler
3.Augustine
4.Milic
5.Hellnemo
6.Gajan
7.Clara

I don't really follow goalies but based on the general consensus and multiple rankings once Hrabal is gone it will vary a lot. But there definitely seems to be quality this year.

If I can't land Hrabal at 31 then I'm waiting for our 3rd rounder and grabbing whoever I have ranked the highest that's available

I'd put Gajan ahead of Augustine, and Clara as well.

 

[Mrb1p]

So he doesn’t back check very much. He’s questionable with contact. Skating might be a problem. Perhaps a little enigmatic. So am I describing Michkov or Will Smith? Because I’ve seen that said about both in this thread. I was in the Wright camp last year because I wanted a Center. They took Slaf and right now not taking Wright looks like the right move. I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt about Michkov even though I’d love to get a game breaker.

He back checks a lot more than Smith and he goes for contact a lot more than Smith.

Its actually gotten ridiculius around here again. The snowball effect when it comes to misinformation on prospect is just overwhelming.

With Wright, there were at least some valid concerns.

This one basically amounts to "Muh Russia."

I think the targeted PR campaign to slander the player is kind of disgusting to be honest.

Yes. Wright had geniune concerns that were not directly possible to see, we needed the interviews to know what was up.

Michkovs slander campaign is just very stupid.

 

[EquabaleAce]

I'd put Gajan ahead of Augustine, and Clara as well.

I would love Gaian or Fowler in the 3rd round. As other poster have said, we need to create a development department for goaltenders… perhaps like Basu has said by appointing Price to oversee it

 

[Schooner Guy]

Yes. Wright had geniune concerns that were not directly possible to see, we needed the interviews to know what was up.

Michkovs slander campaign is just very stupid.

Wright's stock dropped because of his play on the ice last spring. His playoffs were brutal and he was scared to death to go to the dirty areas. This trend continued in this year's OHL playoffs and AHL playoffs.

 

[Kennerback]

Michkov is gonna fall like Wright.
Just accept it now so you dont crash the server on us.

As long as they release the play by play of scouts losing it in the war room. Accusations of GMs having fallen on their heads as babies flying. We’ll be fine.

 

[Garbageyuk]

With Wright, there were at least some valid concerns.

This one basically amounts to "Muh Russia."

I think the targeted PR campaign to slander the player is kind of disgusting to be honest.

The outrage of us not picking Wright on here was worse than it is with Michkov right now. Anyone who criticized Wright or suggested the Habs consider anyone else was lambasted, called stupid, told that they were falling for media “hit pieces”, other teams were conspiring with the media to ensure he falls, on and on. All the same bullshit going on right now with Michkov.

This board was saying Wright has 100 point potential, he’s the franchise C we’ve been waiting years for, he’ll be the best forward the Habs have drafted since Lafleur - all kinds of crazy shit. The “generational” label was thrown around as well, just like it is now with Michkov.

I was personally called an idiot and told I was falling for narratives because I didn’t like his combine interviews and compete level. I stated I didn’t want the Habs to draft him and that I didn’t think he has star potential. People freaked out.

This fanbase is so starved for a superstar forward, that they repeatedly latch onto any player they think will be what they’re looking for and project all these superstar saviour traits onto them. It doesn’t matter what changes leading up to the draft or what scouts or the hockey community is saying after they have formed that narrative around the player, once their little hearts are set, there’s nothing that can sway them or criticize the Chosen One until hindsight is 20/20, and then it’s all swept under the rug and they begin it all again with a new player the next time the team is picking high.

I’m not saying anything definitive either way regarding Michkov other than that he’s got star potential. But for me, there are too many red flags that have nothing to do with him being Russian, and too many other high upside prospects available that aren’t going to come with a bunch of bullshit that I wouldn’t pick him. I think his potential is being significantly exaggerated on here due to the desperation for a saviour.

 

[Andrei79]

Just FYI, but Reinbacher is listed just 0.75" shorter than Seider was at the combine.

 

[Natey]

Let's go piece by piece.

1. There are no direct correlation with pre draft production to NHL success. If that easy, Thinel, Locke, Andrighetto, Drouin would have turned into superstar in the NHL. The most important piece to any prospect from star producer to role player at the NHL level is dedication, hard work and compete. All NHL players have worked their ass off to get better and improve every single aspect of their game to reach the level they are. I have never seen highly talented player succeed without these traits. NONE. Many highly hyped players failed miserably even though they were more talented than most and people believed in their hype.

2. High ceiling guy is such a garbage, throw in all situation garbage words. Who decide the ceiling of the player? How can some player have low ceiling and other high ceiling? This all about hype, nothing more. I have seen MANY supposed high ceiling players fail miserably and more often than not, they fail but we disregard it every year for some reason like Puljujarvi, Zadina, Drouin, Yakupov, Galchenyuk, Filatov, Brule . You don't think players like Kotkaniemi, Galchenyuk, Scherbak, Kostitsyn were not "high" ceiling picks. Was the Tkachuk brothers considered high ceiling?

3. The supposed can't miss and safe prospect tag that were applied to the like of Chipchura, Poehling, McMarron(as a 4th line enforcer at least), Leblanc and I could even add Juulsen, Tinordi to the list. There are no indicator that they are even close to be similar to Leonard, like not even in the same stratosphere. Leonard just had similar numbers as Cole Caufield at the u18 and at the USNTDP, was Caufield also considered a low ceiling player before the draft? I think many people do not like hard working & high character players, just like if a player work hard and he is intense he has no other skills. A simple look at Ryan Leonard and you would realise that he has a very good shot, very good hands, he is very deceptive, very good skater and he like going to the net. You know what? he also has improved tremendously over the past few months and he never take the switch off. For many people, he is only a 3rd line player with no upside, based on what? He has talent, production, he has compete, skating? What indicate you that he has no upside? to me he seems like a guy with tremendous upside and with little question mark. He has all the box checked.

4. Size, intensity, speed and yes, character does matter! every year, it seems like a running gag over here, we only select him because of his character. You know what character does matter. We have seen it with Shane Wright just last year. As gifted and talented as you are you need to show competitiveness. Also as much as we want to avoid it, size and skating are also important. I do believe it is not a killer for a young player and they can grow and improve that part of their game but it is still a gamble and nothing is guaranteed that it would be good enough.

For me it seems like many people here do not believe that Leonard has any offensive talent which is ludicrous, just watch his tape, look at the score board and listen to scouts, nhl executive or even his teammates talk about him. In what sense does this player has no upside or is he a glorified 3rd line player? because he has the high character mark associated with him and less question marks than other top talent in this draft?

Chipchura and Juulsen were pretty safe. It's unfortunate they suffered the setbacks they did with injury/illness.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Chipchura and Juulsen were pretty safe. It's unfortunate they suffered the setbacks they did with injury/illness.

Chipchura was slightly before my time, but Juulsen never showed much progression to me. He'd get beat wide constantly and never had much offense in him. I think he was one of those guys who was touted as a "sure thing solid number 4" when his ceiling was really a solid bottom pairing defenseman. Unfortunately injuries took that away from him.

 

[_vivelequebec_]

If we are to p***y out on Michkov, just trade 5 31 37 69 101 for Detroit 9 17 41 42 43

 

[Naslund]

Just FYI, but Reinbacher is listed just 0.75" shorter than Seider was at the combine.

Seider is a physical freak of nature. Reinbacher is not.

 

[Toene]

The outrage of us not picking Wright on here was worse than it is with Michkov right now. Anyone who criticized Wright or suggested the Habs consider anyone else was lambasted, called stupid, told that they were falling for media “hit pieces”, other teams were conspiring with the media to ensure he falls, on and on. All the same bullshit going on right now with Michkov.

This board was saying Wright has 100 point potential, he’s the franchise C we’ve been waiting years for, he’ll be the best forward the Habs have drafted since Lafleur - all kinds of crazy shit. The “generational” label was thrown around as well, just like it is now with Michkov.

I was personally called an idiot and told I was falling for narratives because I didn’t like his combine interviews and compete level. I stated I didn’t want the Habs to draft him and that I didn’t think he has star potential. People freaked out.

This fanbase is so starved for a superstar forward, that they repeatedly latch onto any player they think will be what they’re looking for and project all these superstar saviour traits onto them. It doesn’t matter what changes leading up to the draft or what scouts or the hockey community is saying after they have formed that narrative around the player, once their little hearts are set, there’s nothing that can sway them or criticize the Chosen One until hindsight is 20/20, and then it’s all swept under the rug and they begin it all again with a new player the next time the team is picking high.

I’m not saying anything definitive either way regarding Michkov other than that he’s got star potential. But for me, there are too many red flags that have nothing to do with him being Russian, and too many other high upside prospects available that aren’t going to come with a bunch of bullshit that I wouldn’t pick him. I think his potential is being significantly exaggerated on here due to the desperation for a saviour.

The best Russian prospect since Malkin/Ovi and you would balk because from afar you somehow know he's got attitude issues even though many people around him said he's a leader with great work ethic and passion to always work on his game, being the first and last on the ice in practice, etc. But we should follow your gut because you were supposedly right about Wright (no pun intended). Ok.

 

[Garbageyuk]

The best Russian prospect since Malkin/Ovi and you would balk because from afar you somehow know he's got attitude issues even though many people around him said he's a leader with great work ethic and passion to always work on his game, being the first and last on the ice in practice, etc. But we should follow your gut because you were supposedly right about Wright (no pun intended). Ok.

I didn’t say anyone should follow my opinion, wtf are you talking about.

 

[SOLR]

With Wright, there were at least some valid concerns.

This one basically amounts to "Muh Russia."

I think the targeted PR campaign to slander the player is kind of disgusting to be honest.

More like GMs competing to get the most out of the situation and using scouts / media to disinform because it brings opportunities to them.

 

[Toene]

I didn’t say anyone should follow my opinion, wtf are you talking about.

I know but you bring forward a point you seem convinced about. Is it a stretch to assume it's what you think the Habs should do (pass on Michkov if other players you prefer are available)?

 

[Garbageyuk]

I know but you bring forward a point you seem convinced about. Is it a stretch to assume it's what you think the Habs should do (pass on Michkov if other players you prefer are available)?

Yes, I would prefer that the Habs do not pick him, but that isn’t what you said. You said that I think people on here should agree with me, which is BS. People can make up their own minds, but when I get attacked for stating my opinion by some of the same people who were saying dumb shit about Wright last year, and attacking me then as well, I’m going to respond and point that out.

 

[Toene]

Yes, I would prefer that the Habs do not pick him, but that isn’t what you said. You said that I think people on here should agree with me, which is BS. People can make up their own minds, but when I get attacked for stating my opinion by some of the same people who were saying dumb shit about Wright last year, and attacking me then as well, I’m going to respond

I hope you're not talking about me because I was one of the people who defended posters who didnt have Wright 1st even if I had him there myself.

That said, when you post an opinion on a hockey discussion forum, it's a given that people will argue it. It's why we browse this god-forsaken place, to talk about hockey and share our thoughts about the Habs and their decisions. It's not necessarily an attack on you personally.