HF Habs: 2023 NHL Draft part 2

[ginomini]

Yeah, he's not exactly the guy I'd be using to defend a position.

It's like using Grant.

Yeah...and also just like Grant he tends to be extremely rude with other posters/twitter commenters....

Thinks his opinions are facts.

 

[CheldishGamibno]

So if San Jose passes on Michkov and then Montreal does it at 5, that's now two front offices that shouldn't manage a NHL team.

Then Arizona doesn't do it.

And then Philadelphia passes.

Do we then submit that maybe it's not an easy call? That either the player, the situation, a combination of both, has more elements to consider than what we've been subjected to?

I think Michkov is close to generational so there's no doubt in my mind he should be 2nd. Maybe my statement was extreme, sure, but the talks about Michkov not choosen in the top 10 is madness. If HuGo passes on him I'll lose some faith in them for sure.

 

[Kaladin]

Yeah, he's not exactly the guy I'd be using to defend a position.

It's like using Grant.

Sadly, when everyone else seems to have fallen into some collective delusion options are limited.

 

[WentWughes]

Yeah...and also just like Grant he tends to be extremely rude with other posters/twitter commenters....

Thinks his opinions are facts.

Crazy how arrogant he is for all of his takes aging like milk. I remember him religiously defending McCarrons potential even though to any neutral observer the guy was just not good at hockey. Not to mention his takes on KK and McLeod were horrendous, both showing to be below average Nhlers and yet he is still dying on the hill for them. If you want your team to draft exclusively bottom six forwards though Grant should be hired.

 

[Boris Le Tigre]

Top 10

1. Bedard
2. Fantilli
3. Carlsson
4. Michkov
5. Reinbacher
6. Smith
7. Leonard
8. Dvorsky
9. Benson
10. Barlow

 

[NekkiChiconey]

My top 16, with tiers

1. Bedard
---
2. Fantilli
3. Michkov
---
4. Benson
5. Carlsson
---
6. Leonard
7. Reinbacher
8. Smith
9. Dvorsky
---
10. Wood
11. Moore
12. Sandin-Pelikka
13. Ritchie
14. Perreault
15. Simashev
16. Barlow

Then there's a group I'm not even trying to rank up to around 30 because the players are so different (Willander, Musty, Cristall, Brindley...), and I see these 16 as the players with safe top-6 or top-4 upside.

 

[Garbageyuk]

You sure wrote a lot of words to say very little of substance related to Michkov. Why do you *seriously* doubt he could ever become as good as Kucherov? So far in their respective careers michkov is tracking as the better player at that age. What are all these bust factors that stand out for him vs a Smith or Carlson? Let alone a Benson or a Leonard? And does his upside not outweigh whatever bust factor you attribute to him?

He isn’t “falling” because of his on ice play. If michkov had a chance to play against his age group this year none of us would be having this conversation to be honest. And the comparisons to Bedard wouldn’t seem as “ridiculous”.

So what? A lot of players in Kucherov’s draft year were tracking as better players at that age - he was a 2nd round pick.

If Michkov was anywhere near Bedard, he’d be in contention for 1st overall. He isn’t, and for good reason. The geopolitical situation doesn’t matter as much as people say.

Michkov’s stock has indeed fallen due to things not related to the geopolitical situation. He’s small, weak, and not particularly fast. He’s poor defensively and his compete level, consistency, and intensity has been called into question. There are questions around his work ethic, and he’s been rumoured to have attitude problems. There are just too many red flags, and those are all on top of the issues and baggage that are out of his control.

A couple years ago, I think the idea was that he’d get stronger, grow a bit more, and improve his speed. None of that happened. His defensive game seems to have gotten worse, not better, and now we have questions about intensity, work ethic, and attitude as well.

None of that has anything to do with being Russian, where he plays, or the geopolitical situation. That’s why he’s nowhere near Bedard. There’s just too much you need to overlook and bank on his talent for him to be a good top 5 pick. There is now buzz about him not even being picked in the top 10, and possibly dropping further.

If he was as great a prospect as you say, none of the other stuff would matter and he’d get picked right after Bedard. That isn’t and won’t be the case.

I hope that was enough substance for you.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

No, I won't tone it down. Before the last draft Gorton told the draft crew that the players who are the 2way guys, role players at the NHL level produced points in the lesser leagues. So don't pick a guy producing at role player numbers, he's not making it. As an example, Carboneau was a huge producer in junior and became a tremendous 2 way 3C in the NHL.

In any draft you will have about 20 something top 6 F, top 4D, starting goalie. You go for the high ceiling guys.

You want us to draft Ryan Poehlings ? Yes ? W e end up with a bust or a wonderful 4th liner. We are drafting 5th overall. This is where the top line Cs , no.1Ds or elite talents are, disproportionately. You don't bunt because all you end up being is mediocre. Again, if Leonard has high ceiling upside I am happy with the pick, but if he doesn't then Smith or Michkov better not pan out.

Let's go piece by piece.

1. There are no direct correlation with pre draft production to NHL success. If that easy, Thinel, Locke, Andrighetto, Drouin would have turned into superstar in the NHL. The most important piece to any prospect from star producer to role player at the NHL level is dedication, hard work and compete. All NHL players have worked their ass off to get better and improve every single aspect of their game to reach the level they are. I have never seen highly talented player succeed without these traits. NONE. Many highly hyped players failed miserably even though they were more talented than most and people believed in their hype.

2. High ceiling guy is such a garbage, throw in all situation garbage words. Who decide the ceiling of the player? How can some player have low ceiling and other high ceiling? This all about hype, nothing more. I have seen MANY supposed high ceiling players fail miserably and more often than not, they fail but we disregard it every year for some reason like Puljujarvi, Zadina, Drouin, Yakupov, Galchenyuk, Filatov, Brule . You don't think players like Kotkaniemi, Galchenyuk, Scherbak, Kostitsyn were not "high" ceiling picks. Was the Tkachuk brothers considered high ceiling?

3. The supposed can't miss and safe prospect tag that were applied to the like of Chipchura, Poehling, McMarron(as a 4th line enforcer at least), Leblanc and I could even add Juulsen, Tinordi to the list. There are no indicator that they are even close to be similar to Leonard, like not even in the same stratosphere. Leonard just had similar numbers as Cole Caufield at the u18 and at the USNTDP, was Caufield also considered a low ceiling player before the draft? I think many people do not like hard working & high character players, just like if a player work hard and he is intense he has no other skills. A simple look at Ryan Leonard and you would realise that he has a very good shot, very good hands, he is very deceptive, very good skater and he like going to the net. You know what? he also has improved tremendously over the past few months and he never take the switch off. For many people, he is only a 3rd line player with no upside, based on what? He has talent, production, he has compete, skating? What indicate you that he has no upside? to me he seems like a guy with tremendous upside and with little question mark. He has all the box checked.

4. Size, intensity, speed and yes, character does matter! every year, it seems like a running gag over here, we only select him because of his character. You know what character does matter. We have seen it with Shane Wright just last year. As gifted and talented as you are you need to show competitiveness. Also as much as we want to avoid it, size and skating are also important. I do believe it is not a killer for a young player and they can grow and improve that part of their game but it is still a gamble and nothing is guaranteed that it would be good enough.

For me it seems like many people here do not believe that Leonard has any offensive talent which is ludicrous, just watch his tape, look at the score board and listen to scouts, nhl executive or even his teammates talk about him. In what sense does this player has no upside or is he a glorified 3rd line player? because he has the high character mark associated with him and less question marks than other top talent in this draft?

 

[Mrb1p]

So what? A lot of players in Kucherov’s draft year were tracking as better players at that age - he was a 2nd round pick.

If Michkov was anywhere near Bedard, he’d be in contention for 1st overall. He isn’t, and for good reason. The geopolitical situation doesn’t matter as much as people say.

Michkov’s stock has indeed fallen due to things not related to the geopolitical situation. He’s small, weak, and not particularly fast. He’s poor defensively and his compete level, consistency, and intensity has been called into question. There are questions around his work ethic, and he’s been rumoured to have attitude problems. There are just too many red flags, and those are all on top of the issues and baggage that are out of his control.

A couple years ago, I think the idea was that he’d get stronger, grow a bit more, and improve his speed. None of that happened. His defensive game seems to have gotten worse, not better, and now we have questions about intensity, work ethic, and attitude as well.

None of that has anything to do with being Russian, where he plays, or the geopolitical situation. That’s why he’s nowhere near Bedard. There’s just too much you need to overlook and bank on his talent for him to be a good top 5 pick. There is now buzz about him not even being picked in the top 10, and possibly dropping further.

If he was as great a prospect as you say, none of the other stuff would matter and he’d get picked right after Bedard. That isn’t and won’t be the case.

I hope that was enough substance for you.

Lol thats just media manipulating the opinion on Michkov so that teams can pass on him. Just like the Basu mouthpiece article.

Crazy that people cant see past this, watch the game ffs.

 

[Kennerback]

I think Michkov is close to generational so there's no doubt in my mind he should be 2nd. Maybe my statement was extreme, sure, but the talks about Michkov not choosen in the top 10 is madness. If HuGo passes on him I'll lose some faith in them for sure.

Fine, you skip him because of the Russian factor. I get it. Just don’t embarrass yourself in trying to narrow the hockey skill canyon between him and Leonard or Dvorsky. Because backcheck or defense… Just stop. It’s a travesty. Lol

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

I think those who are repeating Michkov has poor effort and character clearly didn't watch him with Sochi too often. Took only four viewings to see constant improvement and he looked great with the pros. Will never be an elite defensive player, but the effort was definitely there.

I found his poor performances were in junior, where it seems like he had nothing to gain. He had no business not playing pro hockey with SKA and his tour in Sochi made that clear.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Lol thats just media manipulating the opinion on Michkov so that teams can pass on him. Just like the Basu mouthpiece article.

Crazy that people cant see past this, watch the game ffs.

What in that 3rd paragraph did I say that isn’t true? That’s all on ice, tangible stuff that people can see and hear with their own eyes and ears.

As if the entire media is collectively conspiring to drop his stock so that a particular team can select him. How did you type that and not realize how batshit crazy that sounds? You’re delusional and are resorting to that to justify the gulf between your personal preference for the player and what the scouts and hockey community is saying.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

How did he prove to have a massive ego

Basically thought he was better than he was and got butt hurt when Suzuki surpassed him.

 

[Balthazar]

If he had very strong skating or a very strong shot he'd be 3rd but not having these attributes while being undersized will be a knock against him.

Benson (and Michkov) would have a higher chance to be considered by Hughes if Caufield wasn't a Hab. That's just a fact.

GM's build teams, not video game rosters.

 

[Natey]

Basically thought he was better than he was and got butt hurt when Suzuki surpassed him.

Why because he signed for an over 6 million?

Benson (and Michkov) would have a higher chance to be considered by Hughes if Caufield wasn't a Hab. That's just a fact.

GM's build teams, not video game rosters.

 

[Skip Bayless]

GM's build teams, not video game rosters.

 

[Schooner Guy]

So what? A lot of players in Kucherov’s draft year were tracking as better players at that age - he was a 2nd round pick.

If Michkov was anywhere near Bedard, he’d be in contention for 1st overall. He isn’t, and for good reason. The geopolitical situation doesn’t matter as much as people say.

Michkov’s stock has indeed fallen due to things not related to the geopolitical situation. He’s small, weak, and not particularly fast. He’s poor defensively and his compete level, consistency, and intensity has been called into question. There are questions around his work ethic, and he’s been rumoured to have attitude problems. There are just too many red flags, and those are all on top of the issues and baggage that are out of his control.

A couple years ago, I think the idea was that he’d get stronger, grow a bit more, and improve his speed. None of that happened. His defensive game seems to have gotten worse, not better, and now we have questions about intensity, work ethic, and attitude as well.

None of that has anything to do with being Russian, where he plays, or the geopolitical situation. That’s why he’s nowhere near Bedard. There’s just too much you need to overlook and bank on his talent for him to be a good top 5 pick. There is now buzz about him not even being picked in the top 10, and possibly dropping further.

If he was as great a prospect as you say, none of the other stuff would matter and he’d get picked right after Bedard. That isn’t and won’t be the case.

I hope that was enough substance for you.

Great post! Many get entranced by players who had phenom status at a young age and then get blinded by their love and are in denial that the goalposts may have changed. It was so bad with Shane Wright last year that people in here wanted to lynch Bob McKenzie for releasing the results of a poll of NHL scouts and execs. Pure insanity!

 

[Kennerback]

So what? A lot of players in Kucherov’s draft year were tracking as better players at that age - he was a 2nd round pick.

If Michkov was anywhere near Bedard, he’d be in contention for 1st overall. He isn’t, and for good reason. The geopolitical situation doesn’t matter as much as people say.

Michkov’s stock has indeed fallen due to things not related to the geopolitical situation. He’s small, weak, and not particularly fast. He’s poor defensively and his compete level, consistency, and intensity has been called into question. There are questions around his work ethic, and he’s been rumoured to have attitude problems. There are just too many red flags, and those are all on top of the issues and baggage that are out of his control.

A couple years ago, I think the idea was that he’d get stronger, grow a bit more, and improve his speed. None of that happened. His defensive game seems to have gotten worse, not better, and now we have questions about intensity, work ethic, and attitude as well.

None of that has anything to do with being Russian, where he plays, or the geopolitical situation. That’s why he’s nowhere near Bedard. There’s just too much you need to overlook and bank on his talent for him to be a good top 5 pick. There is now buzz about him not even being picked in the top 10, and possibly dropping further.

If he was as great a prospect as you say, none of the other stuff would matter and he’d get picked right after Bedard. That isn’t and won’t be the case.

I hope that was enough substance for you.

Michkov’s not higher because of the geopolitical situation. And you don’t seem to grasp how dominant Michkov is. He did better than Kucherov for the past 4-5 seasons. Not only that, he did better than when he was one year older. And while Kucherov was crushing Juniors with a goal a game Michkov had the same stats but in their AHL. Every stat at every level are mind boggling.

 

[BeliveauFan4ever]

Michkov at 5 is a steal.

 

[Balthazar]

Michkov at 5 is a steal.

He's going to be an even bigger steal in the 8-12 range.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Any way to have 1 thread for the draft ?

 

[Fantomas]

So what? A lot of players in Kucherov’s draft year were tracking as better players at that age - he was a 2nd round pick.

If Michkov was anywhere near Bedard, he’d be in contention for 1st overall. He isn’t, and for good reason. The geopolitical situation doesn’t matter as much as people say.

Michkov’s stock has indeed fallen due to things not related to the geopolitical situation. He’s small, weak, and not particularly fast. He’s poor defensively and his compete level, consistency, and intensity has been called into question. There are questions around his work ethic, and he’s been rumoured to have attitude problems. There are just too many red flags, and those are all on top of the issues and baggage that are out of his control.

A couple years ago, I think the idea was that he’d get stronger, grow a bit more, and improve his speed. None of that happened. His defensive game seems to have gotten worse, not better, and now we have questions about intensity, work ethic, and attitude as well.

None of that has anything to do with being Russian, where he plays, or the geopolitical situation. That’s why he’s nowhere near Bedard. There’s just too much you need to overlook and bank on his talent for him to be a good top 5 pick. There is now buzz about him not even being picked in the top 10, and possibly dropping further.

If he was as great a prospect as you say, none of the other stuff would matter and he’d get picked right after Bedard. That isn’t and won’t be the case.

I hope that was enough substance for you.

With rumours swirling about the Habs passing on Michkov, the copium dealers are here.

 

[Kaladin]

So what? A lot of players in Kucherov’s draft year were tracking as better players at that age - he was a 2nd round pick.

If Michkov was anywhere near Bedard, he’d be in contention for 1st overall. He isn’t, and for good reason. The geopolitical situation doesn’t matter as much as people say.

Michkov’s stock has indeed fallen due to things not related to the geopolitical situation. He’s small, weak, and not particularly fast. He’s poor defensively and his compete level, consistency, and intensity has been called into question. There are questions around his work ethic, and he’s been rumoured to have attitude problems. There are just too many red flags, and those are all on top of the issues and baggage that are out of his control.

A couple years ago, I think the idea was that he’d get stronger, grow a bit more, and improve his speed. None of that happened. His defensive game seems to have gotten worse, not better, and now we have questions about intensity, work ethic, and attitude as well.

None of that has anything to do with being Russian, where he plays, or the geopolitical situation. That’s why he’s nowhere near Bedard. There’s just too much you need to overlook and bank on his talent for him to be a good top 5 pick. There is now buzz about him not even being picked in the top 10, and possibly dropping further.

If he was as great a prospect as you say, none of the other stuff would matter and he’d get picked right after Bedard. That isn’t and won’t be the case.

I hope that was enough substance for you.

For you to argue that "a lot of players" were tracking better than Kucherov and that's why he got drafted in the second round is so disingenuous it really dilutes everything else you say. He was drafted low because of the Russian factor. First russian drafted that year.

As for your reasons you state for Michkov's "fall" are amusing. 80% of your stated reasons are psychological questioning his compete level, intensity, consistency, work ethic and attitude problems. Let me go ahead and say I believe none of this bs. It's manufactured by the media and is classic. If he was the exact same player but Canadian we wouldn't be hearing a 10th of this narrative.

The other 20% of your feedback is more fair. Yes, he's small. Same size as Bedard and Benson but cannot deny his size. Stronger? He's a teenager. Muscle can be added over the next few years hardly a reason to drop someone of his skill level. And his skating is just fine, he's no Jack Hughes but hardly a red flag. But yes, he's small and could be faster. If he was he'd be even more of a slam dunk.

I'm all for the players not going off their historical reputation. I was one of the few in here who was insisting we don't draft Wright months before the draft. But that's not the case with Michkov. He' hasn't gone down over the years. He's still breaking records. So no, your post did not have enough substance for me it boiled down to he's small, weak and could be faster. The rest was meaningless prattle.

 

[Viggo Mortensen]

Which goalie do we want with our 37th?

 

[MrNasty]

Highly doubt we will get Hrabel. Athletic saying he has met with San Jose 6 times.
They pick 26th (NJ) and then again between our 31st and 37th pick. They will probably kick start the goalie run.