HF Habs: 2023 NHL Draft part 2

[SannywithoutCompy]

I mean many teams passed on Caufield the NHL front offices aren't exactly littered with geniuses. It may not be a *easy* call but it sure as heck is the right one. A former GM on some podcast got interviewed and said only a GM that knows he's got job security for a few years would even risk getting a Michkov that high because they won't see him for a few years. I submit to you there's a lot more of job insecurity, short sightedness/god complex that only a player developed by them will be good and russian phobia happening then anything else. And all of these teams will live to regret it. Most of these GM's will be fired by then so they don't care what's better for the team in the long term.

I think this case is actually why it would make sense for the Habs to draft him. We're at the start of a rebuild with new management, their jobs, if Bergevin's tenure shows us anything, should be secure for a while longer regardless of who they pick.

 

[JHabs]

I'd love it if they got their hands on Hrabal in the 2nd round.

Absolute mammoth of a specimen though. Management needs to come up with a proper development plan for Goalies, AND have ultra-patience, especially with 6ft 6 goalies.

 

[River Meadow]

I'd love it if they got their hands on Hrabal in the 2nd round.

Absolute mammoth of a specimen though. Management needs to come up with a proper development plan for Goalies, AND have ultra-patience, especially with 6ft 6 goalies.

Yeah, but also... I've read Augustine is the best goalie in the draft from another publication, and another says it's Bjargagaghson for sure...

I hope we choose wisely.....

 

[Vachon23]

I'd love it if they got their hands on Hrabal in the 2nd round.

Absolute mammoth of a specimen though. Management needs to come up with a proper development plan for Goalies, AND have ultra-patience, especially with 6ft 6 goalies.

We definitely need a new Goalie operation staff in our Hockey ops to help the progression of our goalies

 

[Natey]

KK certainly proved to have a massive ego and I think it hurt him.

How did he prove to have a massive ego

 

[WeThreeKings]

Top-10 according to... me! Let's see everyone else's list.

1. Bedard
2. Carlsson
3. Fantilli
4. Benson
5. Michkov
6. Leonard
7. Smith
8. Reinbecher
9. Honzek
10. Willander

1. Bedard
2. Carlsson
3. Michkov
4. Fantilli
5. Smith
6. Reinbacher
7. Leonard
8. Wood
9. Benson
10. Dvorsky

I mean many teams passed on Caufield the NHL front offices aren't exactly littered with geniuses. It may not be a *easy* call but it sure as heck is the right one. A former GM on some podcast got interviewed and said only a GM that knows he's got job security for a few years would even risk getting a Michkov that high because they won't see him for a few years. I submit to you there's a lot more of job insecurity, short sightedness/god complex that only a player developed by them will be good and russian phobia happening then anything else. And all of these teams will live to regret it. Most of these GM's will be fired by then so they don't care what's better for the team in the long term.

Yes but was Caufield ever considered a "generational" prospect, or being mentioned as "the 2nd best and only challenger to Bedard" by anyone? No. He was seen as a top 10 pick after the U-18s and it was lucky for us that he fell solely because he was small.

I'm not saying that GMs and teams don't make mistakes all the time.. but there's also examples of people who fall in a draft that everyone loses their minds over and then it makes sense years later why they did.

If NHL teams really thought that Michkov's skill level and translation was to that degree, their appetite for risk/reward would be different than what we are hearing. We have to entertain the thought that NHL teams don't think Michkov is quite as good as the public sphere does.

Yeah, but also... I've read Augustine is the best goalie in the draft from another publication, and another says it's Bjargagaghson for sure...

I hope we choose wisely.....

Augustine is not the best goalie in the draft. I'd be pretty scared if our goaltending gurus came to that conclusion.

 

[Natey]

1. Bedard
2. Carlsson
3. Michkov
4. Fantilli
5. Smith
6. Reinbacher
7. Leonard
8. Wood
9. Benson
10. Dvorsky



Yes but was Caufield ever considered a "generational" prospect, or being mentioned as "the 2nd best and only challenger to Bedard" by anyone? No. He was seen as a top 10 pick after the U-18s and it was lucky for us that he fell solely because he was small.

I'm not saying that GMs and teams don't make mistakes all the time.. but there's also examples of people who fall in a draft that everyone loses their minds over and then it makes sense years later why they did.

If NHL teams really thought that Michkov's skill level and translation was to that degree, their appetite for risk/reward would be different than what we are hearing. We have to entertain the thought that NHL teams don't think Michkov is quite as good as the public sphere does.



Augustine is not the best goalie in the draft. I'd be pretty scared if our goaltending gurus came to that conclusion.

I haven't been following this thread too much, but I'm shocked to see we both like Carlsson more.

I went back and forth on Benson and Fantilli as well. They're even on my list. I put Fantilli above because it's consensus and because he could play centre, but I like Benson's game more than anyone in the draft not named Bedard and Carlsson.

I actually think Michkov has the potential to be the best player in the draft. I just don't think any GM will risk in the Top-5. Maybe even the Top-10.

I really think Smith will be the epitome of regular season player. The handful of times I've seen him, he's like a Rene Bourque. Good size, but not willing to use it. Obviously his offensive game is really top tier though. I could easily see him put up a PPG pace in the regular season followed by like half of that in the playoffs.

Honzek and Willander are two players I love who most have lower. But there's basically zero chance we see either of them with Florida's pick. f*** you Florida for not winning the Cup at least.

Dvorsky is really f***ing interesting. But with a project like Slaf, I'd rather a more sure thing.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

Top-10 according to... me! Let's see everyone else's list.

1. Bedard
2. Carlsson
3. Fantilli
4. Benson
5. Michkov
6. Leonard
7. Smith
8. Reinbecher
9. Honzek
10. Willander

1. Bedard
2. Michkov
3. Carlsson
4. Fantilli
5. Smith
6. Leonard
7. Wood
8. Reinbacher
9. Dvorsky
10. Perreault

Benson might slot in between Reinbacher and Dvorsky but I need to weigh out injury concerns before deciding exactly where to rank him.

I haven't been following this thread too much, but I'm shocked to see we both like Carlsson more.

I went back and forth on Benson and Fantilli as well. They're even on my list. I put Fantilli above because it's consensus and because he could play centre, but I like Benson's game more than anyone in the draft not named Bedard and Carlsson.

I actually think Michkov has the potential to be the best player in the draft. I just don't think any GM will risk in the Top-5. Maybe even the Top-10.

I really think Smith will be the epitome of regular season player. The handful of times I've seen him, he's like a Rene Bourque. Good size, but not willing to use it. Obviously his offensive game is really top tier though. I could easily see him put up a PPG pace in the regular season followed by like half of that in the playoffs.

Honzek and Willander are two players I love who most have lower. But there's basically zero chance we see either of them with Florida's pick. f*** you Florida for not winning the Cup at least.

Dvorsky is really f***ing interesting. But with a project like Slaf, I'd rather a more sure thing.

It sounds like St Louis and Detroit are both very high on Honzek. I think he'll be the first surprising reach of the draft.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

One thing Columbus Blue Jackets are being really direct with their draft that's for sure. 100% they're taking whoever is there at #3 between Carlsson & Fantilli.

That leaves San Jose with the Michkov decision first, and they seem to leaning Smith. If it makes anyone feel better that board is agonizing over that decision too. Lol

 

[BeliveauFan4ever]

Yes but who where those players with high character ?

McCarron ? Galchenyuk ? Sherback ? Beaulieu (wasn’t draft by MB though), Poehling ? KK ?

Those guys all miss that high character to be successful

The biggest thing those guys were missing was talent.

Maybe they were good at Euchre?

 

[Pazucha]

He shows that even final Bobs rankings are not always accurate.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

That's the chatter - now maybe a team or scouting staff feels the risk is worth it earlier.

Just saying the perception of Michkov as a player and the understanding of his risk from a public perspective does not seem to match up with what the scouts and NHL teams are saying/believing.

Or scouts from teams that are outside looking in, just use anonymity to spread doubt over Michkov so he can fall, and those teams far outweight the handful of those with a high pick. Michkov hasn't even interviewed with any of them yet.

 

[Kennerback]

The biggest thing those guys were missing was talent.

Maybe they were good at Euchre?

I think the character meme is in the collective memory of Habs fans starting from some of our first picks since the last Cup. The one that cemented it for me was Kyle Chipchura. M. Character. Captain Canada. Has all the intangiblea. Best attitude. Team first. Not afraid to get dirty. You can add all the accolades. He was only missing skill and talent.

But there’s all these mysterious first picks that had to be about character because they couldn’t have been about talent or stats. Terry Ryan, Matt Higgins (not Chris), Jason Ward, etc… And we’ve been spinning our wheels since then.

 

[Andrei79]

I think the character meme is in the collective memory of Habs fans starting from some of our first picks since the last Cup. The one that cemented it for me was Kyle Chipchura. M. Character. Captain Canada. Has all the intangiblea. Best attitude. Team first. Not afraid to get dirty. You can add all the accolades. He was only missing skill and talent.

But there’s all these mysterious first picks that had to be about character because they couldn’t have been about talent or stats. Terry Ryan, Matt Higgins (not Chris), Jason Ward, etc… And we’ve been spinning our wheels since then.

Chipchura had skill and talent. He had skating issues and that major injury he suffered a few months after being drafted did him in. I'll add the post-lockout changes to the game also played a part.

 

[Deam78]

Such a shame that Benson doesn't seem to be in consideration at 5

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Just did an other draft simulator (I'm eager to when Bob McKenzie list will be out and we will have the possibility to do it with that list)

To have the most realistic scenario possible, I auto pick Bedard Fantilli Carlsson Smith and I auto pick Reinbacher/Dvorsky in the top 10 and Wood/Williander in the top 15

5. Ryan Leonard
27 (31+ 59 + 109). Edouard Sale
37. Michael Hrabal
101. Tanner Ludkte
128. Matthew Mania
133. Jacob Fowler
144. Jaden Lipinski
165: Axel Landen
197. Sawyer Mynio

The site crapped out on me after Ludkte. I seem to have inadvertently cornered the market on Slovaks though by adding Dvorsky, Strbak and Gajan to Slaf and Mesar.

5. Dalibor Dvorsky
31. Maxim Strbak
37. Quentin Musty
69. Adam Gajan
101. Tanner Ludkte

 

[Doublechin]

Such a shame that Benson doesn't seem to be in consideration at 5

If he had very strong skating or a very strong shot he'd be 3rd but not having these attributes while being undersized will be a knock against him.

 

[yianik]

When did Bergevin regime have consider high character as important ? Who did they draft with high character with his top picks ??

I would say it was the opposite, they didn't consider it enough

And by the way Leonard is dynamic

I should have been clearer. Draft crap in the sense that skill wasn't the chief consideration all the time. Size, 2way play, warrior mentality, gym rat results etc.

As I understand it, Bedard and Michkov could be elite, Fantelli, Carlsson and Smith could be 1st line players, centres at that and be ppg.

So if Leonard can be elite, or ppg, then fine. If we are talking about a sub 6 foot guy who will hit, has energy and score 20-25 goals and 55 points as an upside, no thanks.

 

[Kaladin]

At least 1 sane media person still out there when it comes to Michkov:

 

[NotProkofievian]

At least 1 sane media person still out there when it comes to Michkov:
View attachment 717030

It's just unfortunate that the guy is absolutely bonkers about other prospects lol. Ilya Kvochko @ 21 nevar 4get!

 

[McGees]

I bought a Rein LeonardBacher jersey.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

I should have been clearer. Draft crap in the sense that skill wasn't the chief consideration all the time. Size, 2way play, warrior mentality, gym rat results etc.

As I understand it, Bedard and Michkov could be elite, Fantelli, Carlsson and Smith could be 1st line players, centres at that and be ppg.

So if Leonard can be elite, or ppg, then fine. If we are talking about a sub 6 foot guy who will hit, has energy and score 20-25 goals and 55 points as an upside, no thanks.

This is exactly why I lost it with fans expectation during draft season.

Everybody is the next superstar, 60-70 points in unacceptable!! That would be the doom for this franchise!! Jeez folks, tone down the expectations a bit.

Most of the time (like 99%), every prospect drafted never reach their projection and settle down at either above average players or out of the league, or journeyman. Every single year since I joined HFboards in 2001 I read the same ridiculous take about soon to be drafted players that will become superstars. People never learn. There are more chances than not that in the top 20 there will be only 1 or 2 superstars, maybe 2 borderline line star players and the rest will be servicable players.

This is the nature of the beast and let's be honest if we finish with above 70 points producer it will be the best offensive player drafted in the first round since Saku Koivu in 1993 or 30 years ago. That would not be terrible at all as people make it seems.

 

[WeThreeKings]

It's just unfortunate that the guy is absolutely bonkers about other prospects lol. Ilya Kvochko @ 21 nevar 4get!

Yeah, he's not exactly the guy I'd be using to defend a position.

It's like using Grant.

 

[yianik]

This is exactly why I lost it with fans expectation during draft season.

Everybody is the next superstar, 60-70 points in unacceptable!! That would be the doom for this franchise!! Jeez folks, tone down the expectations a bit.

Most of the time (like 99%), every prospect drafted never reach their projection and settle down at either above average players or out of the league, or journeyman. Every single year since I joined HFboards in 2001 I read the same ridiculous take about soon to be drafted players that will become superstars. People never learn. There are more chances than not that in the top 20 there will be only 1 or 2 superstars, maybe 2 borderline line star players and the rest will be servicable players.

This is the nature of the beast and let's be honest if we finish with above 70 points producer it will be the best offensive player drafted in the first round since Saku Koivu in 1993 or 30 years ago. That would not be terrible at all as people make it seems.

No, I won't tone it down. Before the last draft Gorton told the draft crew that the players who are the 2way guys, role players at the NHL level produced points in the lesser leagues. So don't pick a guy producing at role player numbers, he's not making it. As an example, Carboneau was a huge producer in junior and became a tremendous 2 way 3C in the NHL.

In any draft you will have about 20 something top 6 F, top 4D, starting goalie. You go for the high ceiling guys.

You want us to draft Ryan Poehlings ? Yes ? W e end up with a bust or a wonderful 4th liner. We are drafting 5th overall. This is where the top line Cs , no.1Ds or elite talents are, disproportionately. You don't bunt because all you end up being is mediocre. Again, if Leonard has high ceiling upside I am happy with the pick, but if he doesn't then Smith or Michkov better not pan out.

 

[dcyhabs]

Yes but who where those players with high character ?

McCarron ? Galchenyuk ? Sherback ? Beaulieu (wasn’t draft by MB though), Poehling ? KK ?

Those guys all miss that high character to be successful

Not sure they drafted for character. Some of their acquisitions like Drouin and pretty much everyone from 2022 had it, either.

The problems with their drafting were many. Valuing an improbable ceiling over any likely outcome. Taking position over BPA even if it pushed them way down the list. Taking guys TSN pushed for no good reason. Picking raw projects and then ignoring development. Rushing players but not giving them the slack needed to grow.

The character thing was more about who Therrien played and to justify Bergevin’s crappy trade deadline pickups, or at least the ones Therrien actually chose to play, that is to say the bad ones.